Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

EXP-HL Tiers and Predictions

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A word on Swampert, I completely agree that the format is starting to make way for its comeback but there is work to be done on him IMO. Swampert is a fairly slow build crammed deck like Blaziken with all its evos and such. Those kind of decks have moved down a bit. Suicune ex is sadly pretty terrible now IMO. (which is too bad because it has an awesome picture ;) ) 100 HP Pokemon with not god-like power like Quaza isn't good enough when 3/4 of the decks play Ruins. Crobyss, Metabyss, Exploud, Walrein, Shiftry. That and Blaze ex isn't half the format anymore may mean Cune isn't the way to go anymore. The other thing that is making me hesitant to play Swampert again is that THERE IS NO WAY TO BEAT GARDEVOIR WELL! I have tried Wobuffet, Ruins, Electrode to ko GEX etc. You know Gardevoir will be heavily played. A very good deck for even longer than Blaze/Quaza and hasn't been thought of as being teched out of the format like Blaziken. Its hard to willingly play a deck that is so bad against what is quite likely going to be the most popular at Worlds since Blaze is in such a decline. Now aside from that Swampert can really get the format. SWex gives it an advantage vs. Shiftry (which I'm surprised at the praise its getting on this topic) I believe it can have an advantage vs. Metagross just for the fact that you have decent non-ex attackers, I have decent non-ex attackers, my big ex pwns your big ex. I have been making so many lists teching for Gardevoir, if I just forfeit vs. Gard I think Swampert can tech for the likes of Crobyss with Island Cave and maybe Regice ex. IDK yet but if Gard really could decline enough, Swampert can make a showing. I'll try to get my tiers in later.
 
Wow. GARDY BEATING GROSS? PLEASE. READ MY WCSC REPORT. I got HORRID hands vs it and STILL won with Gross. Gardy has about as much of a chance of beating Gross as someone NOT named Levi Canfield, Chad Harris or Chris Fulop winning worlds. Its a PATHETICALLY in Metagross' favor. Anyway Fulop and a few others have it covered but i'll give my 2 cents anyways:

Tier 1
Shiftry- This deck seems to have it all, speed, power, disruption, strong consistancy, etc. It hasn't won a LOT of events YET, but i guarentee it will be a force at worlds. The only thing it loses to is Swampert consistantly, that alone makes it tier 1.

Metabyss- My pride and joy of course. :p I don't think that the ruling on rare candy has much of an effect at all on this deck. Some people call it slow, but yet a turn 2 Metagross ex can be pretty good. With a quick hand and MEX it can beat shiftry, along with some tech. The deck really has NO AUTOLOSS, unlike virtually every other deck in the format..... In addition to that, it has AUTO WINS, such as Gardy and Walrein. If people actually design it well and not make mistakes at worlds, metabyss will do quite well.

Swampert- This deck is quickly gaining popularity and with type advantage over Metagross ex, Shiftry and Blaziken it is a pretty good choice for the Worlds Metagame. There are a few things though i think that MAY push Swampert slightly below tier 1...... I think it can be pretty inconsistant, at least for me it seems that way. It takes a somewhat high number of energy to be effective and sometimes relies too much on Swampert ex to win the game. VS something like Metagross, even where you have advantage vs the ex, they still can put a HUGE amount of pressure on you by sacing a couple gorebyss to ko the ex or even rock tming it back to your hand. I still think the deck can be tier 1 in a good players hands, and some consistant lists will do well, but for now i see it as the 3rd best deck.

Tier 2
Blaziken- Some people seem to think blaze is dead. If you think that and have to play in the grinder at worlds or even in the tourney, you could get smashed. There will probably be some good blazes at worlds, and it is STILL a force with good hands. On a GOD draw Blaze can beat nearly everything. It has lost significant power, but i still think it can beat shiftry a good amount of the time along with Metabyss AND swampert. It really isn't horribly bad in the Metagame. Good players will do well with it unless they get matched up with Walrein all day, but it does need GOOD hands.

Walrein- It smashes blaze AND can handle Gardy. I think it has some serious issues with Shiftry, possibly Swampert and gets man handled by Metagross.

Eh i'm sick of saying things, and everything else is covered. Gardy is a joke so yah, no need in explaining that.
 
SuperWooper said:
Gardevoir:
We all know and love this deck. It has too many weaknesses, however, to be put on top of this Tier. Blaziken stomps it, as do Shiftry and Metagross.
Click to expand...

Scizor, read that. I acknowledge that Gardevoir gets destroyed by Metagross. I also acknowledge that I made a mistake when I said that Metagross loses to Gardy. It was a typo, I'm not THAT stupid.

Mike, hey, it was the official tier list. Actually, after I made this post, I went to SWF just to make sure that I was correct and GUESS WHAT! They changed the Tier list AGAIN. O.O Tier 1 is now:

Sheik
Fox
Marth

Yeah, Fox has surpassed Marth (finally) on the Tiers, so that's good news for all of us with no lives who play the game 24/7. But the rest of you are probably bored out of your skulls right now, so I'll stop...yeah.

Mudkip, thanks for that enlightening comment. =\ I actually did think about your Swampert comment, but I will have to test around and see if I think that it's a viable thought chain. I think it probably will be, but I don't say anything about it until I've tested, and I haven't tested Swampert in this "new" metagame. I like the idea, so if you have something against me, PM me about it, don't post it here. I can understand that you're mad, but don't make everybody else read it too.

Panda, yeah, I know. There is still a lot of Gardy played, even though it's losing power, so that's probably why Machamp isn't on there. I haven't tested Machamp too much, however. You can post a list with Machamp in it if you'd like or whatever, but I'm not sure I see it fitting.

I still hate Crobyss. :B
~Wooper
 
I personally know a kid who took 2nd place in a SSBM video tournament at Star City Games and he played Kirby...

;)
 
I like the idea, so if you have something against me, PM me about it, don't post it here. I can understand that you're mad, but don't make everybody else read it too.
Click to expand...

lol chill out, im just mocking you, dont take everything too serious...

Wishcash/Espeon has got to be added to the list
 
there is no such thing as tiers....
the deck you play has about as much impact as the coinflip.
id say that right now, TONNAgirafarig with Mex (not metagross ex or mewtwo ex, the other one with M) and Hoppip tech added in is the TIER 1 of all decks.
 
^ agreed
lol

anyway, here is what I think

Tier Ones:
Metagross/Gorebyss- I really like this deck. Strong, fast, and isn't weak to a whole bunch.

Crobat/Gorebyss- ok, I will give it credit. I think it is overrated but I guess it can be good. Especially with the Rare Candy thing

Blaziken variants- ok, they have lost power, no doubt. But they still have tons of offense and are unstoppable when they are set up. Ruins can't kill a Quazza that fast

Tier Twos:
Swampert/Suicune- this deck has proven itself to be. . . almost as good as Gorebyss or Blaze. It is just a little on the slow side

Milotic variants- same as Swampert/Cune

Shiftry- this deck is plain overrated. It loses to Blaziken and Metabyss, that is just terrible. And it is just even with water decks. This deck is really lucky Rare Candy got changed

Tier Threes:
Gardevoir- ok, this deck has lost too much power. It loses to Blaze, Gorebyss, Metagross, Shiftry, and other Gardevoirs. It beats water and other Gardies. That just isn't good enough
 
Personally I think Armaldo has great advantage over Shiftry due to weakness and his power to stop copycat and desert shaman which shiftry decks need.
 
One thing that I'd like to say. Gardy can beat Metagross by having magnetic storm and getting one card. Boost. My dad beat metagross with Gardy in a close Game. And whicker I think you need to test shiftry because it can beat a Blaze deck and because it won ECSC. :pokeball: :D
 
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wow... its interesting how people just decide to bash decks and make them seem useless after constant domination at many major tournaments.

Gardevoir tier 3? I strongly disagree. Gardy can't beat blaze? can't beat shiftry? can't beat metagross?

These are very serious accusations, none of which can be CONSISTANTLY proven. Gardy with a couple of shards will destroy blazes of any sort, with Bex weak to Gex and Rex weak shards. When Magnetic storms make Shiftry's resistance useless, how good is it against a Gardy? 120 is no problem at all for a psystorm. Yes, metagross is a tough battle, but not a loss... not by a long shot.

Blaziken variants will never die, people are just choosing to play other, more original decks. Its still very consistant, and covers its weaknesses well. Shamans hurt all right... until Delcatty gets going. I don't see all the hype, and why Shiftry pwns Blazes...The only decks that give good Blazes a serious fight are variants of psychic and water decks with some shards. Shamans can only go so far, and Blaze owns Metagross. Everyone seems to think that Gorebyss can save you from Blaziken decks.

rogues will have their fun, but they won't take the title.
 
Ok, first of all, Obi Wan...ummm Gardy DOES lose to Shiftry and Metagross pretty much 95%...I'm not just saying that. I tested these match up heavily, and I played a TON of Gardevoir at the ECSC ( Using Metabyss obv ) Not only do you resist Gardevoir, but you also have Gorebyss so if they DO get set up to be able to fight you, your OHKOing themback with Gorebyss. Its either they dont get set up and die to Metagross, or they get set up and try and beat metagross and die to Gorebyss swarm. Its a near unwinnable match up. Shiftry is just as bad as they swarm RIDICULOUSLY badly. Its really ugly.

Gardevoir did well at Nationals. I don't consider Nationals a good example of the current metagame. Nationals was the changing point. Blaziken did poorly with HLs. People tried other decks. Now things are settling out. Gardevoir emerged from Nats as the top deck. In response decks such as Metagross and Shiftry and Walrein popped up in the emerging metagame, mainly due to a dying Blaziken and with Gardevoir ready to be killed at their hands. The decks that WERENT at Nats that ARE played now are really different, and while Blaziken recieved alot of hate, Gardevoir got just as much now. Gorebyss in basically EVERY deck is a major reason.

Nationals and other tournaments do not mean anything in terms of how good a deck is. Us telling you what is good means nothing. Do what I do. Go out, grab Apprentice, test the match ups until your confident in how you feel each match up is played out, and decide for yourself what is viable. I posted what my testing has shown. Gardevoir and Blaziken are both tier 2. To say either is tier 1 is a lie because they are hated on by the metagame HORRIBLY. To say they are tier 3 is wrong as well...they pack too much raw power. They make up tier 2, pretty much hands down. The style of the format has shifted drastically, and with this their style of play has become less favorable. People need to deal with it.
 
Does ANYONE play Metagross with Milotic? i like every post you guys say "Metalbyss, Metagross/Gorbyss," ect. I think Milotic is better than Gorbyss in Metagross.
 
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Well here is what I think:

Tier 1:
Shiftry
Metabyss
Gardegore (If they use enough of magnetic field it should be able to compete with Shiftry and Metabyss)
Walrein/Milotic

Tier 2:
Stage 1s (Gorebyss, Lanturn, Starmie, Medicham, and Banette are all really good. DRE makes them really fast and they can be combined to get type advantage over the top decks.)
Blaziken
Swampert (I am not certain this is that great vs Shiftry since it uses Desert Ruins. I do think it can beat Metagross.)
Crobyss (I don't really think this is that good, but other people do. I just don't think it has any chance if you play it at Worlds.)

Tier 3:
Sceptile (I think this can be played now and it's pretty good.)
Exploud (It's not that great especially against Shiftry and Meta and Walrein which are all really good.)
 
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yes
Kirby was beyond broken


I'm sorry
but I've played with and against several Gardy decks, and NONE of them can beat Blaze consistantly enough
same with Shiftry and Metagross
ever heard of them running you out of Magnetic Storms?

like just the other night, my Niniken beat a well-built Gardy eighteen times out of twenty
so don't think I haven't tested this
 
Metagross and Milotic wouldn't be bad but there are a few reasons Gorebyss is better. This involves me sharing alot of my testing results, but whatever. First off, Milotic did not beat Blaziken. While yes, Blaziken is weaker, you need to assume you will still run into it. Gorebyss is at least twice as effective vs Blaziken is as Milotic. Two, Milotics PP doesn't help your Metagross EX out, which alot of times is what you use offensively. It only heals your Metagross, which usually is used in match ups that aren't that hard in the first place. Gardy, Crobyss, etc. The match ups where the game is close in you want to use Metagross EX,a nd Milotic doesn't help that. Also, your not OHKOing everything, so Milotic's PP often helps them as much as it does you, and you can rely on Nurse instead of Milotic without the dual benefits to your opponent. So offensively it doesn't help you vs Blaziken, and Gorebyss also is AMAZING vs Gardevoir, sealing your win 100% more than the healing would, but also is nuts vs Crobyss as it turns their gorbeyss aspect against them, but also vs ANYTHING using psychic energy or fire. Milotic is also USELESS vs Shiftry, as you help them 100x more than you do yourself. Also the Gorebyss's free retreat is KEY to using Nurse, as you switch/warp nrg to Gorebyss, Nurse and retreat. Milotic doesn't let you do this. With Gorebyss you don't need to run the Levitate Metang for the chance to free retreat ( its usually evolved anyways so its REALLY hard to set up ) and you can use the 80 HP Metal Load one, to let u recover late game better and make it harder to Rock TM you by 10 HP -_- Metagross NEEDS the solid support, as this format does yield enough damage being done to a Metagross that the prospect of Miloticing it isn't as good as it was before. You lose the free retreat, the awesome metagaming aspect, and the ability tof ight blaziken, all for a PP which is 100 times less practical in game than on paper.

Plaid- I actually do like the stage 1 decks...I haven't testing them enough and they just don't seem like my style. I'd toss them in tier 2 prolly especially since they did good at the ECSC and I've seen them get really good starts.

Also, Magnetic Storm doesn't stop Metagross in the least. Metagross still has type advantage over you, when Gardevoir doesnt get it over Meta. Thats HUGE right there. Res is just a bonus. Plus, you fight Gorebyss so when you have to get alot of energy in play to take out a tanked Meta, Gorebyss just EATS you. So with Res or not you still lose that match up HORRIBLY. Plus they run counter gyms. Also they don't over load one Meta. Desirable set up is Metal DRE per Meta and swarm. Shiftry should beat Gardevoir without Resistance anyways. Hit for 80, Rock TM everything you have. It swarms better and doesn't give up 2 prizes and has really big HP. The bonus of being Resistance just clinches the match up.
 
I pretty much agree with Fulop's tier 1's. I don't know about 2 and 3 as I haven't done enough testing.

I think Swampert is in there somewhere (because I play it :D) but prolly not as high as people think. Probably half the people that play Swampert don't play it very well and it takes a lot of skill to play and to build. I didn't see any Swampert at all at the ECSC. It is very underplayed. The deck dies to Gardy most of the time. It can beat Blaziken at leasat 50-75% of the time, IMO. And I would know since MD/VA before HL was an insane Blazi-fest. Swampert has problems with Desert Ruins as it often doesn't play counter gyms OR healing and Cune has pretty low HP. There's nothing left to say really...

except that CROBAT PWNS. You should all play Crobat. If you don't know what to play, then play Crobat. Just do it. So there. =P
 
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