Foreign language cards in 2010-2011 MD-on?
- Thread starter kevstoy
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It may not be different, but it sure is one less cause of an disrupted deck check now.
Personally, I don't like how japanese cards affected the games. Sure, against top competitive players, they knew the card word for word, but for many opponents, time had to be taken to pull out the translation/card-dex and let the opponent read it for each foreign card they didn't know.
Not only that, but I feel foreign language cards can create confusion for the opponent as they skim the play field for information. Also, I feel it can create a feeling of intimidation when your opponent has a field full of foreign language cards and you can't read a single one of them. Sure, the 10% rule helped limit those problems, but there are still elements of these effects in the game.
I don't think anyone is saying that foreign language cards ruined an event, or bogged it down greatly, but it had an effect one way or another. If it were the few extra seconds spent every round pulling out translations for the opponent or if it were the few extra seconds the deck checkers needed to take to make sure the player had the translation. A few extra seconds to make sure you couldn't see the altered back through the sleeve. A few seconds for the opponent to remember what a card does without reading it (on the fly during a turn). These little added seconds add up, and even if they don't make the event that much harder to run, they do add to the difficulty and open up possible opportunities for big errors and big problems to come from those errors.
With the new season, all of these little issues won't be around. All the cards the judges will see will be english cards, and they won't have to ask for translations, and their opponents won't have to worry about not being able to read a card. I think the events will be a tad bit smoother because of this.
Does it ruin the value of the cards american players bought from foreign sellers? Sure. But, none of us know all the reasons why this decision was made. I like to think the decision was made to help events run a little smoother. You are welcome to think differently.
Personally, I don't like how japanese cards affected the games. Sure, against top competitive players, they knew the card word for word, but for many opponents, time had to be taken to pull out the translation/card-dex and let the opponent read it for each foreign card they didn't know.
Not only that, but I feel foreign language cards can create confusion for the opponent as they skim the play field for information. Also, I feel it can create a feeling of intimidation when your opponent has a field full of foreign language cards and you can't read a single one of them. Sure, the 10% rule helped limit those problems, but there are still elements of these effects in the game.
I don't think anyone is saying that foreign language cards ruined an event, or bogged it down greatly, but it had an effect one way or another. If it were the few extra seconds spent every round pulling out translations for the opponent or if it were the few extra seconds the deck checkers needed to take to make sure the player had the translation. A few extra seconds to make sure you couldn't see the altered back through the sleeve. A few seconds for the opponent to remember what a card does without reading it (on the fly during a turn). These little added seconds add up, and even if they don't make the event that much harder to run, they do add to the difficulty and open up possible opportunities for big errors and big problems to come from those errors.
With the new season, all of these little issues won't be around. All the cards the judges will see will be english cards, and they won't have to ask for translations, and their opponents won't have to worry about not being able to read a card. I think the events will be a tad bit smoother because of this.
Does it ruin the value of the cards american players bought from foreign sellers? Sure. But, none of us know all the reasons why this decision was made. I like to think the decision was made to help events run a little smoother. You are welcome to think differently.
DarthPika
New Member
Prime, I hate to break it to you, but using translations is FAR less disruptive than an opponent continually needing to reach over and read what a card does. If I have a translation, I can just hand it to them, and they can look at it when ever they want with no disruption to the game. There is no way when scanning the field that ANYONE can actually read half of what the cards say even in English. They may as well just look at a translation. Sorry, but in my findings, and those of many people I've talked to, dealing with translations is far easier than dealing with players who keep needing to pick up your cards to look at them. This is a very week argument against the use of JPN cards.
What you like to think might make you feel warm and fuzzy about POP but it's far from true. It's simple that they make more money this way, and that's what it will always come down to.
Judges who complain about this are so lazy. Look at the language situations Europe deals with. You don't see them complaining even though they deal with FAR more foreign cards than we do. I used to think this game was a great way to learn a little about other countries. To be able to enjoy cool foreign cards, and make new friends. Heck, we even have worlds. And yet, they put up a foreign card ban? My opinion of them has drastically deteriorated ever since then. Please do understand that I only feel this way about a total ban. If they would agree to just leave it as is with the 10% rule, I could completely understand. However, the first thing they ever said to us about this was a total ban, before they changed their minds ONLY AFTER what was probably the loudest public complaint in the history of the game.
Please, prove me wrong POP. Keep the 10% rule, and have it include ALL foreign language cards.
What you like to think might make you feel warm and fuzzy about POP but it's far from true. It's simple that they make more money this way, and that's what it will always come down to.
Judges who complain about this are so lazy. Look at the language situations Europe deals with. You don't see them complaining even though they deal with FAR more foreign cards than we do. I used to think this game was a great way to learn a little about other countries. To be able to enjoy cool foreign cards, and make new friends. Heck, we even have worlds. And yet, they put up a foreign card ban? My opinion of them has drastically deteriorated ever since then. Please do understand that I only feel this way about a total ban. If they would agree to just leave it as is with the 10% rule, I could completely understand. However, the first thing they ever said to us about this was a total ban, before they changed their minds ONLY AFTER what was probably the loudest public complaint in the history of the game.
Please, prove me wrong POP. Keep the 10% rule, and have it include ALL foreign language cards.
considering i made the most recent statement about foreign cards from a judge's/TO's POV...um, thanks
did you even look at what is considered the 'local languages' in other countries in the tournament doc linked in the thread above?
ummm...there IS no 'foreign card ban' AT WORLDS...as there is no 'local language' at that event.
the main complaints given by the players when the total ban was first announced was how unfair it was, that they were given no warning and had purchased cards from japanese sets which were still to be released here. so OP rescinded the complete ban FOR A YEAR and instituted the 10% rule...and that's still not good enough?
you've had a year's warning. if you've not been bothered enough to trade for league uxies etc. KNOWING that this was coming...then frankly, i'd say you were the 'lazy' one.
demand it be changed 10 days before the new rules (whatever they may be, as the new season's tourney docs have not been posted yet) take effect? really?
jmho
'mom
pat460
New Member
Actually I think that was demanded over a year ago
ShadowCard
Active Member
Don't they also learn more languages in school than we do?
SD PokeMom is right. DarthPika, you are wrong. Would you like me to bring some cheese to CCs for you?
Benzo
Front Page News Editor<br>Forum Moderator
I am curiouse as to what is so complicated about having a set standerd of expectations from the players to adbide by from a company that is trying to bring fun events for the public to enjoy.
If the company does listen to the players and makes changes ( even if it takes longer then expected ) to keep the current players interested then the company is successfull in it's original purpose. Providing a hobby, collectable/tradeable cards, ect..... is that not the intention of the company to put the merchandise out there that meets the "average" population of people's wants?
From a business point of view- bring in new players while catering and listening to the current players.
From a hobby point of view- variaty.
From a collector's point of view- quality and rareity.
The company wants to continue to be in business, correct? But the company has a life outside of it's proffessional side as well. I have been to a past tournament where the TO's and judges where at the event until 1 am. And still had to host an event the next day in another city some 40+ miles away.
The players where wanting to know what was taking so long. All I am saying is what is wrong with not making the TO's and judges have to work harder then what WE ourselves would not want to be burdened down with.
I have been to many tournaments in the past where I saw a players "deck" that had 17 proxy cards, three foriegn cards, 1 yu-goh-ey card, and a baseball card of a pitcher from the Yankees. " This is my deck" he said. A very interesting kid, I tell ya.
The amazing thing about the deck were the proxies. The kid had written the names of his favorite pokies on energy cards( all misspelled of course ), and had explained to me that his foriegn cards where the evolutions to the proxies.
He asked me if I wanted to play him. It has been one of the best games I have ever played. ( whats wrong with an improvised game while sticking to the basic rules of the game?)The kid was exstatic that I played a game with him. What was better was when he played the Yankee card. He struck out two of my Pokies.
My point in this little story: The kid told me he could not wait to be able to read so that he could have his real cards to use in the near future tournaments when he is 7. Should the child have to learn another language to play, or just sit there and be told what the card "might say"/says from the player whom has the foriegn card? Heck, even adults do not like to be made to feel ignorant, and that is a big turn off to something I am just getting into that interests me. I am pretty sure others are the same.
A company wants support from players, and players want support from the company. But, the players need to understand this: How hard are YOU ( the player ) working to bring in new players? How much of an effort are YOU putting into teaching new people who heard about the event and are just getting into the game? How much of the rules, regulations, ect.... do you know and can make the game go smooth and easy for both you and your opponant?
I support the companies descision to keep foriegn cards out of large events for the reason that in order for a company to have a "fare playing field" for ALL who are new and old.
Go to a car dealership. Ya buy the car "as is". That is The companies offer. ( Play Pokemon)Take it or leave it.
You don't like the sterio in the car- use a different one. That is what your local league is for. More of the "relaxed" atmosphere where your not expected to follow the guidlines of a larger event held by TO's.
I do see the point of view from those who like the 10% deal- but I do see that the company has made fare leeway time for the small amount of players who use the foriegn cards. Hardcore players will transition just fine. Noobs will not freak out when they go up agianst a deck that has foriegn cards in it.
Judges will not have to spend time with the technicalities involved.
Give and take, give and take. Makes the tournies go all year 'round- how smooth do you want your ride?
To the one's who are saying to quit the game if you do not like the new rule: Hardcore players who still hold the game in their heart and know the true porpuse behind it will stick around. Change is good, and the fun memories outway a simple change in the rules used to play the game.
Anyone can nit pick at my comments if they like- I have said my two cents- and I do play the card game once in a while- But, venture over into my turf- the VG side. Host a tournament of your own or the card game- put yourself in the TO's shoes- THEN you can see what it means to make changes to ANY formatted game to make AS MANY POEPLE happy and want to come back, and keep coming back.
If the company does listen to the players and makes changes ( even if it takes longer then expected ) to keep the current players interested then the company is successfull in it's original purpose. Providing a hobby, collectable/tradeable cards, ect..... is that not the intention of the company to put the merchandise out there that meets the "average" population of people's wants?
From a business point of view- bring in new players while catering and listening to the current players.
From a hobby point of view- variaty.
From a collector's point of view- quality and rareity.
The company wants to continue to be in business, correct? But the company has a life outside of it's proffessional side as well. I have been to a past tournament where the TO's and judges where at the event until 1 am. And still had to host an event the next day in another city some 40+ miles away.
The players where wanting to know what was taking so long. All I am saying is what is wrong with not making the TO's and judges have to work harder then what WE ourselves would not want to be burdened down with.
I have been to many tournaments in the past where I saw a players "deck" that had 17 proxy cards, three foriegn cards, 1 yu-goh-ey card, and a baseball card of a pitcher from the Yankees. " This is my deck" he said. A very interesting kid, I tell ya.
The amazing thing about the deck were the proxies. The kid had written the names of his favorite pokies on energy cards( all misspelled of course ), and had explained to me that his foriegn cards where the evolutions to the proxies.
He asked me if I wanted to play him. It has been one of the best games I have ever played. ( whats wrong with an improvised game while sticking to the basic rules of the game?)The kid was exstatic that I played a game with him. What was better was when he played the Yankee card. He struck out two of my Pokies.
My point in this little story: The kid told me he could not wait to be able to read so that he could have his real cards to use in the near future tournaments when he is 7. Should the child have to learn another language to play, or just sit there and be told what the card "might say"/says from the player whom has the foriegn card? Heck, even adults do not like to be made to feel ignorant, and that is a big turn off to something I am just getting into that interests me. I am pretty sure others are the same.
A company wants support from players, and players want support from the company. But, the players need to understand this: How hard are YOU ( the player ) working to bring in new players? How much of an effort are YOU putting into teaching new people who heard about the event and are just getting into the game? How much of the rules, regulations, ect.... do you know and can make the game go smooth and easy for both you and your opponant?
I support the companies descision to keep foriegn cards out of large events for the reason that in order for a company to have a "fare playing field" for ALL who are new and old.
Go to a car dealership. Ya buy the car "as is". That is The companies offer. ( Play Pokemon)Take it or leave it.
You don't like the sterio in the car- use a different one. That is what your local league is for. More of the "relaxed" atmosphere where your not expected to follow the guidlines of a larger event held by TO's.
I do see the point of view from those who like the 10% deal- but I do see that the company has made fare leeway time for the small amount of players who use the foriegn cards. Hardcore players will transition just fine. Noobs will not freak out when they go up agianst a deck that has foriegn cards in it.
Judges will not have to spend time with the technicalities involved.
Give and take, give and take. Makes the tournies go all year 'round- how smooth do you want your ride?
To the one's who are saying to quit the game if you do not like the new rule: Hardcore players who still hold the game in their heart and know the true porpuse behind it will stick around. Change is good, and the fun memories outway a simple change in the rules used to play the game.
Anyone can nit pick at my comments if they like- I have said my two cents- and I do play the card game once in a while- But, venture over into my turf- the VG side. Host a tournament of your own or the card game- put yourself in the TO's shoes- THEN you can see what it means to make changes to ANY formatted game to make AS MANY POEPLE happy and want to come back, and keep coming back.
Simple as this, there is no limit on using foreign cards at worlds, worlds is for top players so this is understandle, most of them know what the card will do anyway. At local level this is really not the case, you have beginners mixed in with people testing out decks they plan to use at States/Nats/Worlds, it is not really fair for a beginner to have to worry about foreign cards when they are likely still learning the flow of the game as well as how to play their deck the most effectively. The Pokemon TCG has always catered to be a beginner friendly game and it has a done a good job thus far, this rule makes it even more beginner friendly. You can still use your foreign cards at worlds if you're worried about the quality of the cards or whatever other nonsense you use to justify trying to confuse players.
They could just give us the same boosters / quality as japan and everythoing would be solved. But who wants Boosters like UD or SV which are full of fillers? So many cards that are not supposed to be booster cards, Why not jus take away the reason to buy japanese stuff instead of banning it?
And btw, in europe we dont need to provide references for half of our cards and most of the kids cant read them at all, Ive hardly seen this causing any problems.
And btw, in europe we dont need to provide references for half of our cards and most of the kids cant read them at all, Ive hardly seen this causing any problems.
baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
The fact that I can use Super bonbon instead of Rare Candy makes it all worthwhile.
Skitty
New Member
This is a very good question, and will probably never get answered. I can see reasons for things like Darkrai being pushed back to Great Encounters because it wasn't "announced" it English yet, but there is no good reason that the other cards in the packs have to be so differant.
Then there's Latte MooMoo
Scipio
New Member
Cards like that aren't the real issue, but stuff like SV's Geodude, Zubat, Arcanine, Drifblim, the works...or in UD's case, Raichu, Slowking...(Tho admittedly, I prefer getting Slowking this way then having to order a craptastic pizza for it). Its the odd mixing and mashing of sets that just make no sense at all.
smacktack15
New Member
Either way, I will still support Japanese/foreign language cards because it is just more fun. I currently have a full Japanese deck that I take to league with me and I will buy more Japanese cards from Worlds next year. Sometimes the game grows stale for me and these are the types of things that keep me glued to this game. I wish I could play 10% Japanese though
There's a time-n-place for Japanese cards. Common sense says their usage causes disruption, at some level. The only debate is, what level is acceptable?
Personally, I don't like zero tolerance. But, I also dislike excessive use, including, but not limited to:
1. All or mostly-all Japanese decks
2. Many tournament players using limited amounts
Although unlikely, the 2009-2010 rules did allow #2 above to happen. Under the limited-use rule, what could a TO legally do if half the players showed up with 5-6 Japanese cards in their decks? The potential for tournament disruption increases linearly - or one could argue that it goes up non-linearly.
Previously, when usage was unlimited, there was an expectation that Japanese cards would be used sparingly, by a few players. Those expectations were crushed - maybe intentionally, maybe not - by a few players. IMO, that's why the zero-tolerance rule has "come to life."
The use of the Dusknior card (or any similiar card like Spiritomb or Sableye) to mislead your opponent into thinking you had a Japanese one in your deck is blatant cheating. Even if you did have one in your deck, it would not be allowed (at any tournament I judged) to be shown until the Japanese card was played.
Personally, I don't like zero tolerance. But, I also dislike excessive use, including, but not limited to:
1. All or mostly-all Japanese decks
2. Many tournament players using limited amounts
Although unlikely, the 2009-2010 rules did allow #2 above to happen. Under the limited-use rule, what could a TO legally do if half the players showed up with 5-6 Japanese cards in their decks? The potential for tournament disruption increases linearly - or one could argue that it goes up non-linearly.
Previously, when usage was unlimited, there was an expectation that Japanese cards would be used sparingly, by a few players. Those expectations were crushed - maybe intentionally, maybe not - by a few players. IMO, that's why the zero-tolerance rule has "come to life."
The use of the Dusknior card (or any similiar card like Spiritomb or Sableye) to mislead your opponent into thinking you had a Japanese one in your deck is blatant cheating. Even if you did have one in your deck, it would not be allowed (at any tournament I judged) to be shown until the Japanese card was played.
ShadowCard
Active Member
Lait Meumeu, same name for both NG and HS
AyameHikaru
Active Member
^Which makes it more frustrating for international players if it's ruled you can't use the old ones because "They have a different name," which I believe is the current reasoning used. (Not to mention they have different effects....)
ShadowCard
Active Member
How does that work with Switch, which has 3 different names in French depending on the set it was printed in? Does the Previous Print rule apply?
ShadowCard
Active Member
Just to make sure, I was talking about OP in France, not the use of a French Switch by a United States player.
So it doesn't matter how many different names a reprinted card has in another language, as long as the English name remains the same it is considered the same card in every other country's OP?
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