Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Head Judge Banning Coins

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Ditto

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17.5.1.
Coins
 Any coin released with any Pokémon TCG product from EX Ruby & Sapphire on
should be considered fair and impartial.

I know this has been discussed before and ruled that any official coin is always allowed and cannot be banned even by a head judge. Has anything changed recently on this? The above quote is from the tournament floor rules, so it would seem not, but I wanted to double check.

Basically the head judge refused to let me use my pokemon coin and insisted that I use the die provided by the staff. Can we please make sure our judges know that they can't do this?
 
I know this has been discussed before and ruled that any official coin is always allowed and cannot be banned even by a head judge. Has anything changed recently on this? The above quote is from the tournament floor rules, so it would seem not, but I wanted to double check.

Basically the head judge refused to let me use my pokemon coin and insisted that I use the die provided by the staff. Can we please make sure our judges know that they can't do this?

Before anyone can adequately answer your question you need to elaborate on what happen. Something seems to be missing from your story.

What event did this happen at and what was your judge's reasoning for asking you to use a die.
 
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I agree withthe judge. Coinss can be manipulated too easily and with cards like super scoop up and crushing hammer you just cant allow someone tot gain that much of an advantage via using a coin, I allways request that my opponent use a die when I play. And if they refuse I call a judge and they explaine the rule about the coin having to ratate at least 2 1/2 times to be legit. Then my opponet has allways agreed to just use a die.
 
Coins are allowed if the fall within the guidelines. Any player that asks me to use a die will get a no.
 
I don't care either way. But when someone asks me not to use something that is legal just because they don't like it then i will use it.
 
I don't use coins myself, but people are entitled to use legal coins under the rules, and it is pretty snide and insulting to imply that there is anything suspect about that choice.
 
I don't use coins myself, but people are entitled to use legal coins under the rules, and it is pretty snide and insulting to imply that there is anything suspect about that choice.

I agree and it also smacks of trying to be a rules lawyer.
 
Before anyone can adequately answer your question you need to elaborate on what happen. Something seems to be missing from your story.

What event did this happen at and what was your judge's reasoning for asking you to use a die.

This is actually incorrect.

This is not a discussion about coins vs. dice, or whether coins can be manipulated (hint: they can't), but on whether a judge is ever allowed to ban the use of an official pokemon coin for ANY reason.

The floor rules clearly say that you can ALWAYS use an official pokemon coin and it has been ruled at Nationals and Worlds many times that you can't force a player to use a die over a coin. You can force a player to use a specific "official" die over any other die, but not over an official coin.

This thread is merely to confirm that those rules are still in effect and haven't been changed and to hopefully alert any judges that they are not allowed to ban official coins.

So I ask again, has anything changed in this regard? The floor rules are the same, so it would seem no. Anyone from higher up have any changes?
 
No. Nothing has changed in this regard.

The only way an official coin can be banned is if it has been altered; e.g. edge shaved, repaint, etc.
 
I don't care either way. But when someone asks me not to use something that is legal just because they don't like it then i will use it.

If you don't care either way, why not accede to your opponent's request? I've had opponent's ask me to use little colored pieces for damage counters instead of dies, flip with a different die than the one I'd been using, or flip Dual Ball dies singly instead of together. If its obviously equivalent, I'll allow it. I really don't see that its worth an argument at the table over these sort of things. Personally, I hate these coins. I think it certainly is possible to train yourself to flip a large, light Pokemon coin so that it rotates exactly 3 times and lands flat and I'll always ask someone to use a die.
 
There was a time during a tournament I was judging, where I had asked a player to substitute a translucent die (not sure if I can say "regulation" since it's not an official Pokemon die, just one that meets the standards) for their official coin. The reason I requested this substitution was because the player was obviously having trouble flipping the coin; the coin often got tossed off the table, and one or both players would stop playing to go look for it (on dark carpet in a somewhat cramped space, making it difficult to find). This was happening so often (the player didn't seem too careful about trying to keep the coin on the table) that I was afraid it would affect the pace of the game, or give the player an advantage through stalling, so I asked that the player use a die instead of a coin. I'm working on getting a small stock of tournament-standard dice for our kit in case we have to do this again, since the die I brought over was from our lost-and-found.

That would be the only instance where I think there'd be a good reason for a Judge prohibiting coins, if it were too much of a hassle for coins to be used (hard to retrieve if they fell off the table, majority of attendees known for not being good with coins, stall issues, etc.).
 
There was a time during a tournament I was judging, where I had asked a player to substitute a translucent die (not sure if I can say "regulation" since it's not an official Pokemon die, just one that meets the standards) for their official coin. The reason I requested this substitution was because the player was obviously having trouble flipping the coin; the coin often got tossed off the table, and one or both players would stop playing to go look for it (on dark carpet in a somewhat cramped space, making it difficult to find). This was happening so often (the player didn't seem too careful about trying to keep the coin on the table) that I was afraid it would affect the pace of the game, or give the player an advantage through stalling, so I asked that the player use a die instead of a coin. I'm working on getting a small stock of tournament-standard dice for our kit in case we have to do this again, since the die I brought over was from our lost-and-found.

That would be the only instance where I think there'd be a good reason for a Judge prohibiting coins, if it were too much of a hassle for coins to be used (hard to retrieve if they fell off the table, majority of attendees known for not being good with coins, stall issues, etc.).

I think it's perfectly acceptable to suggest that a player use a die in that case, but the fact is that you still can't force a player to use a die.

If you think the player is stalling or if playing too slow then their are penalties for that, but you can't make them not use it.
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If you don't care either way, why not accede to your opponent's request? I've had opponent's ask me to use little colored pieces for damage counters instead of dies, flip with a different die than the one I'd been using, or flip Dual Ball dies singly instead of together. If its obviously equivalent, I'll allow it. I really don't see that its worth an argument at the table over these sort of things. Personally, I hate these coins. I think it certainly is possible to train yourself to flip a large, light Pokemon coin so that it rotates exactly 3 times and lands flat and I'll always ask someone to use a die.

Why not accept their request? Simple to prove the point that they are allowed.
 
I think a better solution to all of this would be to have a deck of 40 face up cards & 40 face down cards which you reveal....

Anyway, not siding with the ruling made, but how can you really be sure that the Rs-on coins are actually impartial? With no disrespect to the Pokemon company, making a completely fairly weighted coin would not seem such a priorty in the grand scheme of moneymaking.
Another thing I've measured is that the coins all vary in weight despite having identical dimensions & backings - Ex sets coin weigh ~1.82g, Victini coins weigh ~1.48g and Japanese quick construction packs weigh ~1.27g, which may suggest that the odds for one coin does differ to one of another weight.

Just my thoughts - at least with quality dice there are better chances of standardisation.
 
I think a better solution to all of this would be to have a deck of 40 face up cards & 40 face down cards which you reveal....

Anyway, not siding with the ruling made, but how can you really be sure that the Rs-on coins are actually impartial? With no disrespect to the Pokemon company, making a completely fairly weighted coin would not seem such a priorty in the grand scheme of moneymaking.
Another thing I've measured is that the coins all vary in weight despite having identical dimensions & backings - Ex sets coin weigh ~1.82g, Victini coins weigh ~1.48g and Japanese quick construction packs weigh ~1.27g, which may suggest that the odds for one coin does differ to one of another weight.

Just my thoughts - at least with quality dice there are better chances of standardisation.

Again, this is really not the point.

The rules say they should be considered impartial as long as they're not tampered with.

This actually works with coins since they're flipped parallel to gravity and thus negates any bias. Still not the point, it's not whether they should change the rules, but merely confirming that the rules are still the same, which they seem to be. I've already messaged the PTO and asked him to pass it on to his judges. Nothing more needs to be done other than making sure all judges know this.
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Why not accept their request? Simple to prove the point that they are allowed.

You are confusing the difference between "having a right" and "doing what is right". Acceding to reasonable requests to make other people comfortable is just good manners. Trying to make a point that you "have a right" is rude and is how you make enemies instead of friends.
 
You are confusing the difference between "having a right" and "doing what is right". Acceding to reasonable requests to make other people comfortable is just good manners. Trying to make a point that you "have a right" is rude and is how you make enemies instead of friends.

Personally, the player making the request doesn't really have any grounds to be offend when their opponent sticks to their right.

I could ask everyone that plays me to give me $100 too, but it's dumb for me to be offended if they don't want to do that.
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Personally, the player making the request doesn't really have any grounds to be offend when their opponent sticks to their right.

I could ask everyone that plays me to give me $100 too, but it's dumb for me to be offended if they don't want to do that.
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No but if you dont flip the coin enough times it will not count and you will have to reflip and reflip and reflip and reflip and reflip. Just use a die and roll once and have it be over.
 
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