Head Judge Banning Coins

[Slev]

If there's something I have learned while reading this thread it's that you CAN in fact learn to manipulate coin flips. And now you're trying to tell me that's not possible...?

If you can place the coin on your flipping finger exactly the same way, place your hand in exactly the same position, use exactly the same amount of force, and control the air flow in the room you are flipping the coin in, yes, you can theoretically manipulate coin flips.

Best of luck to you in that endeavor.

 

[QD4U]

I'm not saying that it's possible to perfectly manipulate coin flips (we're not robots after all), but it is definetely possible to become pretty good at it. Even if you're not able to flip heads 9/10 times, 7/10 times is enough to give you a huge advantage in your matches.

 

[Ken_the_Turtle]

It doesn't matter too much if you can or not, if a judge BELIEVES that you are TRYING to, that is auto disqualification from the tournament...

 

[Slev]

I'm not saying that it's possible to perfectly manipulate coin flips (we're not robots after all), but it is definetely possible to become pretty good at it. Even if you're not able to flip heads 9/10 times, 7/10 times is enough to give you a huge advantage in your matches.

To even manipulate a coin, you have to be able to reproduce the same exact factors every single time. You have to perfectly recreate the factors that you have been using to previously flip your coin in a certain way.

This is why others and I are arguing that manipulation really isn't possible.

If you can't reproduce the exact factors every single time then the coin landing heads again is luck/randomized.

 

[QD4U]

I see your point. I still believe it's possible though. If you practise something long and hard enough eventually you will learn to do it near perfectly. This goes for flipping coins too. I would practise coin flipping and see if I can consistently land heads at least 70 % of the time or so to prove my point, but I don't think my hands are stable enough. Maybe I can still do it. I'll have to see.

 

[ShadowCard]

It doesn't matter too much if you can or not, if a judge BELIEVES that you are TRYING to, that is auto disqualification from the tournament...

This is incorrect, per the opinion of PokePop on page 3 of this thread:

1. According to the floor rules, Pokemon Theme Deck coins released since Pokemon took over the franchise are to be considered legal unless damaged. Not "legal unless I don't like them". Not "legal unless I think people can flip heads with them all the time". Not "legal unless I am supplying dice that I want everyone to use".

Even if a judge believes you are trying to, it does not matter. The judge cannot do anything unless there is physical alteration to the coin.

That note about Attempting to manipulate a random result in UC: Cheating, based on that, is applicable to a physical alteration of the coin or maybe even interrupting the coin mid-flip (probably more applicable to stopping a dice at the edge of the table and saying that number it is on is the result), not a player's belief that they have an influence over the coin.

It does NOT matter if the judge believes anything. You cannot make a player change coins (or change to dice) on the belief that the player is manipulating the flip through technique. You can request it, but they do not have to comply and they cannot be penalized for that refusal (although they could be penalized for a rude refusal).

 

[PokeMedic]

This goes for flipping coins too. I would practise coin flipping and see if I can consistently land heads at least 70 % of the time...

Nope. Nope. Nope. I seriously doubt it's so easy to manipulate coins. I'll consider the possibility if it's a cheap plastic coin like play money (implying Pokemon coin is no good) but this takes he argument too far. Maybe some of you have seen or experienced it, or thought you did because you lose a key match and it upset you, but I've never seen someone manipulate a coin flip. Is your opponent waiting for the HVAC fan to turn on so the coin gets that little bit of spin to land on heads? Sounds like some sort of evil scheme that belongs in a fanfiction and has no basis in reality other than a forum thread. I don't believe there are a bunch of coin Jedi's out there, people. I thin you're all worked up over something that is only an issue worth discussing because a head judge took a course of action that raised questions.

I don't even see coins used that often. I can't even remember the any of the occasions I have outside of the few kids in my league who use them. I know I've seen them, I just can't remember when -they're that uncommon to me. You can tell me how often you see them, but really, it doesn't matter to me does it? I don't think they can be so easily manipulated so I don't really lose sleep over it. My kids -they don't even use them anymore because they can be sloppy randomizers that just cause grief because they're motor-skills aren't as tuned as Harvey Dents. The older players and parents prefer dice for the same reason. It's been dice all the way. Transparent die has been he way to go. Even then I've encounter a defective die that made it count as loaded so that wasn't a purposeful attempted to cheat. I think most people will use die because they understand the that coins can be unreliable and sloppy -not because it can be manipulated. They probably also understand the hysterics behind it, so they avoid the mess altogether.

You know what they give out at States sometimes? DICE

 

[Ditto]

I see your point. I still believe it's possible though.

That's the point, you believe that you can do it. That has nothing to do with whether you can actually do it.

It's all in your head. Same goes for anyone who thinks coins are different from dice, it's all in your head.

 

[Otaku]

I'm sure you probably have the right idea, but just so others don't get confused, I wanted to clarify the quoted parts.

The judge can NOT ban a coin because they don't feel it is fair. They can only ban a coin if it has been PHYSICALLY ALTERED. A judge is to believe an official coin is ALWAYS fair unless it has been altered.

Either you're getting lost in semantics or apparently at tournaments they can stop the event for a few hours to measure and examine a coin thoroughly enough... let alone the equipment.

 

[Ditto]

Either you're getting lost in semantics or apparently at tournaments they can stop the event for a few hours to measure and examine a coin thoroughly enough... let alone the equipment.

Not sure what you mean. You can look at a coin and tell if it's been altered. If it has, it can't be used, if it hasen't, it can be used. Simple as that.

 

[PokePop]

This topic is just going around in circles now.
Locking it.
Biggie has spoken.
That's the word.