No one is forcing a player to give a "take back". It is simply part of the ruling, as evidenced by the thread that was linked SteveP. You can consider my post as a clarification of the rule or a slam.....either way I meant it, you will seem to still take it the wrong way. I was merely pointing out the seemingly opposite positions you took on the SAME issue. On the other thread, I simply stated (as did many others) that a judge should not advise/coach a player into NOT taking a PP bc it MAY activate a Scramble situation. You openly stated that you had ruled that way. I didnt. Again, your ruling is contrary to the way we have been taught, instructed, etc as the PROPER way to do it.
When a fellow Prof posts and makes a definite answer and it isnt the "best way" to handle a situation, a fellow Prof should post and give the "better" way of doing it so that there is CONSISTENCY in the way a particular situation/ruling is made.
Dont you agree that consistency in rulings is a proper goal for all of OP?
Yes, you are correct that if a player makes an illegal attack, they are in the atk phase and cannot go back. The only way to do so is IF the other player allows it. Many times, it is the offending player that does not know the rule that calls over the judge. The other player may very well allow a "take back", but the 1st player doesnt believe that should be the reason, thinking they ought to be able to correct it themselves "since they hadnt played an energy yet that turn" or some other excuse.
It is no different from the PP situation really. As judges, we cannot "advise" the other player that it may not be in their best interest to actually take said PP, but we can and SHOULD tell them both, as part of the ruling that "my ruling is a GP error major, a PP will be given.....now player B, you may take said penalty or not, your call" and end it that way. So, the other player can basically allow a "take back", but the judge has noted the error to track.
Even if player B allows the take back, the error is still noted as a GP error minor, with a caution/warning given to track. Player A still made an error and the other judge(s) in the event need to know about it for future rds.
Keith
Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:
...one more thought.
The rules are clear. Once you enter the attack phase, you can't back up. When asked to rule, judges MUST enforce that rule.
Opponents can allow take-backs, of almost any sort. Once judges get involved with take-backs during their rulings, we'll have to start making SOTG rulings when one player allows take-backs and the other doesn't.
Take-backs are exceptions afforded to players, NOT judges. It's NOT my job to "advise" players about exceptions that side-step the rules; in fact, it would be inappropriate to "advise" players about such exceptions.
What would you rather have happen? Player A makes an illegal atk and B allows a take back (showing SotG) and they never call a judge over. (Only problem though, this is the 3rd time in the same tourney that A made the same error)
OR
Should the players call the judge over to note the error, even if they solved it themselves by agreeing to the take back or not. The error gets noted, the appropriate penalty given and play moves on.
Sloppy play by players ought to be noted. Sloppy play will eventually bite them hard. That is reality. Likewise, we as judges cannot correct a problem if we are never alerted to it in the 1st place.
Keith
Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:
Just to remind folks, this is what Mike Liesik stated in the earlier thread.
"If you declare an attack that you don't meet the requirements for.
If you announce an attack that requires Fighting Energy, but you don't have any Fighting Energy attached, you can pick another attack that you do have the Energy for. If do have the Energy to do that attack, but you meant to do another attack, you need to ask your opponent's permission to do that other attack. If he or she says no, you're stuck with the original attack."
__________________
Michael Liesik
Pokemon Organized Play
Pokemon USA, Inc.
Got a question that you need answered? Your best bet is to contact POP directly
___________________________________________________________________________________
So, just bc the Judge is called over, that does not mean that B wont allow a take back. Player B must be allowed to give a take back or not. If B says no, then A is stuck in atk phase and either passes or atks with a properly powered move.
Keith