Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Kingdra

I can generally recover quickly, that's why the amount of recovery cards is so high. Inviting Trap I can potentially SSU the Claydol.

You mean NM? or SSU? NM sucks for 'recovery' because you're still letting your opponent take a prize. never a good idea unless you're activating upper to shred something they need really quick (like in FGD).

I don't think that's what you meant though. But isn't it better just to add the Unown G? W/O them you're wasting SSU (which may or may not work) when you could use those to scoop a damaged Kingdra and deny your op. their prize (and save yourself from losing 2 w/expert belt on). Using SSU on claydol would be a back up plan at best in case you can't get unown g on 'em quick enough. Gengar is still huge, you need it (unless no one plays gengar at your meta). Even if they don't, I don't like the idea of crippling your deck by removing a counter to something that's not in your meta. You need to get used to playing the deck how it should be run...

Also, how do you deal with Spiritomb? Mr. Mime? Nearly every non SP deck runs the former to slow stuff like this down... Adding something that works naturally with the deck like a palkia lvl. x (restructure) or a luxray gl lvl x line could help that tremoundously (luxray helps a lot in the mirror too). You get a spiritomb against you you're taking 3-4 turns to get kingdra out, and denied the chance of using plus powers and expert belt. TBH i actually like the idea of using plus powers in this deck but i've never run it so that's just theorymon lol

But you do have a nice article. It's nice to see matchups that make sense. Sooo tired of seeing articles that make it sound like their deck auto-wins almost everything (flyclops article... i'm looking in your direction :p)
 
What I can't understand is how Kingdra is faster than Gengar. Both require 1 energy to attack. Gengar 2hkos your Claydols while you 2hko Gengar. The difference is I have fainting spell and you discard 2 cards. Without Claydol you will run out of steam. You may play 3, but it is too easy to snipe them off your bench. Also, when Nidoqueen comes on the field you will be attacking for 40 damage for the rest of the game. If you choose to use expert belt then Fainting spell or poltergiest will give me 2 prizes. Maybe if you added unown G then the matchup would be even.
 
I'll post mine here, and it's a bit more "teched" than my usual list, but it's still very consistent.

4-3-4 kingdra
2-3 claydol
1 chatot
1 Unown G
1 Uxie

4 bebe
4 rosy
2 Cynthia
1 Wager (or 3rd cynthia depending on meta)
1 Palmers (play it smart, it's you're only recovery, typically for a 2-1-2 kingdra line)
4 rare candy
3 Plus Power
1 Expert belt (some people play too many of these and it really slows consistency and usually ends up in the player misplaying them)
3 lux ball
3 warp point
3 BTS

8 water energy (or 6 water 2 multi)

NOTE: There is room for 4 cards. I've been working with this deck for a year now and the BEST 4 cards I've found to work are 2 great ball and 1-0-1 noir. 4 Drawer + is also nice as well. A lot of people prefer 2 bat/2 turn.

SSU are the most agrivating card in the format, because they tend to fail you when you need them, and they suck in your opening hand. I cut one PP for an expert belt.

See the only thing I have against this is that I can use them on Uxie if my hand is that bad. Otherwise I like the list, except 1 Expert Belt is too little for me.

Well, It's just difficult to read your match-ups, And i definately didn't mean to bash your list, But i think your match-ups could use a line of space

Like so, and make the Deck name bolder, That would probably make it much more easier to read.

Thank you for the suggestion, the changes have been made. And honestly, your comment paled next to Chompy's whose was really uncalled for and obnoxious. :mad:

You mean NM? or SSU? NM sucks for 'recovery' because you're still letting your opponent take a prize. never a good idea unless you're activating upper to shred something they need really quick (like in FGD).

I don't think that's what you meant though. But isn't it better just to add the Unown G? W/O them you're wasting SSU (which may or may not work) when you could use those to scoop a damaged Kingdra and deny your op. their prize (and save yourself from losing 2 w/expert belt on). Using SSU on claydol would be a back up plan at best in case you can't get unown g on 'em quick enough. Gengar is still huge, you need it (unless no one plays gengar at your meta). Even if they don't, I don't like the idea of crippling your deck by removing a counter to something that's not in your meta. You need to get used to playing the deck how it should be run...

Also, how do you deal with Spiritomb? Mr. Mime? Nearly every non SP deck runs the former to slow stuff like this down... Adding something that works naturally with the deck like a palkia lvl. x (restructure) or a luxray gl lvl x line could help that tremoundously (luxray helps a lot in the mirror too). You get a spiritomb against you you're taking 3-4 turns to get kingdra out, and denied the chance of using plus powers and expert belt. TBH i actually like the idea of using plus powers in this deck but i've never run it so that's just theorymon lol

But you do have a nice article. It's nice to see matchups that make sense. Sooo tired of seeing articles that make it sound like their deck auto-wins almost everything (flyclops article... i'm looking in your direction :p)

Cyclone Energy is how I'm coping with Spiritomb. Lets me get my one free turn or so, in which I can generally spit out a Kingdra, so that next turn or what I can knock out their Spiritomb. Not fool-proof, but it works for now. Mr. Mime was a no for me because again, it takes up Bench Space. :confused: Nice idea with Lux X, but, I dunno, not too sure, it might be a little slow to get out. :thumb:

why do u guys play so many luxury balls??

Because we can discard them with Dragon Pump, seeing as only one can be played to gain the effect if another is in the Discard Pile. So if you already played one, it's an easy decision to discard them compared with any other potentially helpful cards in your hand.

What I can't understand is how Kingdra is faster than Gengar. Both require 1 energy to attack. Gengar 2hkos your Claydols while you 2hko Gengar. The difference is I have fainting spell and you discard 2 cards. Without Claydol you will run out of steam. You may play 3, but it is too easy to snipe them off your bench. Also, when Nidoqueen comes on the field you will be attacking for 40 damage for the rest of the game. If you choose to use expert belt then Fainting spell or poltergiest will give me 2 prizes. Maybe if you added unown G then the matchup would be even.

Note how you said "when" Nidoqueen hits the field. In two turns, I knock out Gengar, I don't necessarily have to knock you out with Kingdra, Uxie+Belt =40 Damage, which with the additional 80 dmg from Dragon Pump = Knock Out and no Fainting Spell for you. The list is also built for pure speed, at least, from my testing. In Mother Gengar, Gengar's your focus, not Queen, meaning that you generally won't have her out until turn 4-5. By then, I'll have 1 Kingdra, with 2-3 Dols as my support, and I can Crobat G YOUR Dol off the face of the Earth. How's that for intense theorymon? :thumb: No, but really, I played like 4 straight QueenQars at my Cities, and none were any problem, save one where he donked me with Poltergeist. :frown:
 
Do you seriously expect to have 2 expert belts when you only run 3? How will you have 2-3 Dols out when I OHKO them with crobats?
 
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Do you seriously expect to have 2 expert belts when you only run 3. How will you have 2-3 Dols out when I OHKO them with crobats?

Yes I do and have. Pokedex allows me to fish them out of my deck, Claydol lets me draw into them Uxie lets me draw into them...

And while you're attacking my Claydols, I will be attacking your Gengars. Uxie Psychic Restore'ing them to prevent the effect of Fainting Spell, and rinse and repeat. Except for everytime I attack, I can snipe for 20. Yes, you have Nidoqueen, but by what turn? I'm set-up by turn 2-3.
 
Yes I do and have. Pokedex allows me to fish them out of my deck, Claydol lets me draw into them Uxie lets me draw into them...

And while you're attacking my Claydols, I will be attacking your Gengars. Uxie Psychic Restore'ing them to prevent the effect of Fainting Spell, and rinse and repeat. Except for everytime I attack, I can snipe for 20. Yes, you have Nidoqueen, but by what turn? I'm set-up by turn 2-3.

Since you miraculously never whiff on Expert Belt and Uxie (and keep shuffling in what energy you keep using to retreat Kingdra, as the max in your discard post psychic restore is five unless you're using attaching Cyclones to Uxie) and hit all of this by T2-T3, who's to say I don't miraculously hit Gengar/Queen/Claydol board T2? Queen techs make matchups harder for Kingdra universally, hence why people suggest things like Dusknoir DP or Dialga G to Boomerang or Stifle Queen. You run into further damage-arithmetic issues if they level up with Queen on board. You're also neglecting that your Gengar strategy is a 2HKO plan, which means your Gengar opponent has plenty of time to snipe your non-Unown G'd Claydols while you do this, and also assumes they don't set up multiple Gengars to shuffle around and give you further damage-arithmetic problems.

No comment on your list.
 
How does pokedex fish out expert belt? It only looks at the top 2 cards! I'm assuming that you mean pokedrawers. Again, do you honestly expect to get 2 drawers early enough when I'm sniping your Claydols? I'm sorry but that's a late game play. You only run 3 expert belt and will almost never get 2 pokedrawers without Claydol.
 
Since you miraculously never whiff on Expert Belt and Uxie (and keep shuffling in what energy you keep using to retreat Kingdra, as the max in your discard post psychic restore is five unless you're using attaching Cyclones to Uxie) and hit all of this by T2-T3, who's to say I don't miraculously hit Gengar/Queen/Claydol board T2? Queen techs make matchups harder for Kingdra universally, hence why people suggest things like Dusknoir DP or Dialga G to Boomerang or Stifle Queen. You run into further damage-arithmetic issues if they level up with Queen on board. You're also neglecting that your Gengar strategy is a 2HKO plan, which means your Gengar opponent has plenty of time to snipe your non-Unown G'd Claydols while you do this, and also assumes they don't set up multiple Gengars to shuffle around and give you further damage-arithmetic problems.

No comment on your list.

*sigh*

Yes, I do whiff. It doesn't occur often enough for me to consider it a major factor, but yet, see it in writing, I do whiff. I never stated that my strategy for taking on Gengar was universal, Gengar is a very wide-ranging deck that now cannot be grouped into one. Most builds I have playtested against do not run the Lv. X, but that is my personal experience. I can set up by turn 2-3, I never said you cannot. I understand Queen makes my match-up harder as it prevents the spread from Kingdra's Dragon Pump. I never said my plan WASN'T a 2HKO plan, I said it generally counters blow for blow against your Gengar while you attack my Claydol. Who's to say you didn't have multiple Gengars on your Bench, who's to say I didn't "miraculously" flip heads on 4 straight SSUs?

"No comment on your list," well I don't see any of yours floating around. Have you playtested the list? Tweaked it to your meta? My meta is a lot of straight SF Gengar and DGX tanks, my list works fairly well against forementioned decks. Needless to say, your meta, and Gengar deck is obviously considerably different from what I've seen and played, so indulge as to what your list is. Give me the matchups, your opinions, and I'll incorporate them into the article. Don't just fuel the fire by jumping into an already conversation.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

How does pokedex fish out expert belt? It only looks at the top 2 cards! I'm assuming that you mean pokedrawers. Again, do you honestly expect to get 2 drawers early enough when I'm sniping your Claydols? I'm sorry but that's a late game play. You only run 3 expert belt and will almost never get 2 pokedrawers without Claydol.

Yes, PokeDEX let me move through the top two cards of my deck. Combined with Claydols, which, let it be known, can be SSU'd, I can avoid being sniped, allowing my Claydols to stay in play. Yes, I run Expert Belt, take away 13 cards for set-up, leaving 47 cards in the deck. that's a 1-in-16 card chance I can pull Expert Belt. Given I can Cosmic Power, SSU for another Cosmic Power or Set-Up, it is completely plausible for me to be able to generally pick-up and Expert Belt in a turn. Poke Drawers, I don't need to play them both at once. It is the smart play, but I don't have to. If I only have 1 Drawer and am in need of another card, I don't see how I wouldn't play it. Yes, you're right, generally it's hard to get dual Drawers without Claydol, yes, you can snipe however many Claydols you want, but you can't seem to remember SSU. That's not my one card fix-all. But it will occasionally allow me to rescue my Claydol, and BTS it again and Cosmic. Marley's Request lets me pick it up, or a Poke Drawer again, and then I can use whichever my opponent allows me and try again. I never said that I win every match-up against Gengar you guys.
 
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So...you play a deck that does not have a favorable match up against dialga and gengar according to your matchup. Also, you said it counters blow to blow. That's not the case when I have crobats to KO Claydol and Uxies in one turn.
 
So...you play a deck that does not have a favorable match up against dialga and gengar according to your matchup. Also, you said it counters blow to blow. That's not the case when I have crobats to KO Claydol and Uxies in one turn.

According to my match-up, if you actually read the article, Gengar is in my favor. Dialga G is not. And, does the same not apply to my Crobat G, or is it exclusively for you?
 
Nice article, thanks!

I do believe that it would be more sensible to add in 2 more turns in exchange for the plus powers.
I also wish I could have seen some more matchups.

*Luxchomp- the clear BDIF right now
*Shuppet/uxie
*Other flygon variants besides weavile
*Gyrados

and WHERES THE PICTURES??????:eek:
 
Nice article, thanks!

I do believe that it would be more sensible to add in 2 more turns in exchange for the plus powers.
I also wish I could have seen some more matchups.

*Luxchomp- the clear BDIF right now
*Shuppet/uxie
*Other flygon variants besides weavile
*Gyrados

and WHERES THE PICTURES??????:eek:

Hyperlinks my friend....:thumb:

As for the decks, no one in my area has a decent Luxchomp list, nor have I seen any Shuppet/Uxie decks. Uhm, I have a short Flylock in there somewhere, but, really are there any other Flygon decks besides of course, FlyClops? Haven't seen much play as far as Gyarados in my area though...
 
I'd like to add in a few more Water Energies to this list, so as to gain the possibility to hit for big damage in the lategame with Aqua Stream.
 
*sigh*

Yes, I do whiff. It doesn't occur often enough for me to consider it a major factor, but yet, see it in writing, I do whiff. I never stated that my strategy for taking on Gengar was universal, Gengar is a very wide-ranging deck that now cannot be grouped into one. Most builds I have playtested against do not run the Lv. X, but that is my personal experience. I can set up by turn 2-3, I never said you cannot. I understand Queen makes my match-up harder as it prevents the spread from Kingdra's Dragon Pump. I never said my plan WASN'T a 2HKO plan, I said it generally counters blow for blow against your Gengar while you attack my Claydol. Who's to say you didn't have multiple Gengars on your Bench, who's to say I didn't "miraculously" flip heads on 4 straight SSUs?

"No comment on your list," well I don't see any of yours floating around. Have you playtested the list? Tweaked it to your meta? My meta is a lot of straight SF Gengar and DGX tanks, my list works fairly well against forementioned decks. Needless to say, your meta, and Gengar deck is obviously considerably different from what I've seen and played, so indulge as to what your list is. Give me the matchups, your opinions, and I'll incorporate them into the article. Don't just fuel the fire by jumping into an already conversation.

I'm not trying to be obnoxious, but simply pointing out that you can whiff, and with your lack of protection on your 3-3 Claydol line, you're begging to have your draw power killed accordingly, and you don't run Cynthia's to recover after KOs (an interesting choice), so you'd be left up a creek without a paddle. You say your meta is full of Gengar and Dialga G, so I find the comment that your Gengar opponents don't run Gengar X to be out of the ordinary, seeing as Gengar X is one of the better equalizers at Gengar's disposal in that matchup.

I haven't done but minimal testing for my brother's Kingdra build (he's a Senior who rarely plays, so no need), precisely because Kingdra has such a tough time in this current meta that I wouldn't invest into testing a deck with tough matchups all around. One thing I do know for sure about the list - it runs four Bebe's.
 
I'd like to add in a few more Water Energies to this list, so as to gain the possibility to hit for big damage in the lategame with Aqua Stream.

I was considering that, but I chose to cut them to allow space for cards that will help me set-up faster.

I'm not trying to be obnoxious, but simply pointing out that you can whiff, and with your lack of protection on your 3-3 Claydol line, you're begging to have your draw power killed accordingly, and you don't run Cynthia's to recover after KOs (an interesting choice), so you'd be left up a creek without a paddle. You say your meta is full of Gengar and Dialga G, so I find the comment that your Gengar opponents don't run Gengar X to be out of the ordinary, seeing as Gengar X is one of the better equalizers at Gengar's disposal in that matchup.

I haven't done but minimal testing for my brother's Kingdra build (he's a Senior who rarely plays, so no need), precisely because Kingdra has such a tough time in this current meta that I wouldn't invest into testing a deck with tough matchups all around. One thing I do know for sure about the list - it runs four Bebe's.

Seniors aren't that bad...:biggrin: No, I understand that most standard builds play a 4-4 of Rosy's and Bebe's, I chose to cut this down, seeing as often I'd end up with more than I needed, and it cluttered my hand. I'd like to change a lot of things in the deck, but due to deck space, I have no room. I appreciate that you're trying to reconcile though, unlike some others...:mad:
 
According to my match-up, if you actually read the article, Gengar is in my favor. Dialga G is not. And, does the same not apply to my Crobat G, or is it exclusively for you?
Gengar is in your favor by 5 above equal. I wouldn't really call that a good matchup. That means you will win against those decks about 45% of the time.
 
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I LOVE the honest matchups, however, the list kind of sucks. :/ Anyone actually have a good kingdra list that they could provide?
 
I was considering that, but I chose to cut them to allow space for cards that will help me set-up faster.



Seniors aren't that bad...:biggrin: No, I understand that most standard builds play a 4-4 of Rosy's and Bebe's, I chose to cut this down, seeing as often I'd end up with more than I needed, and it cluttered my hand. I'd like to change a lot of things in the deck, but due to deck space, I have no room. I appreciate that you're trying to reconcile though, unlike some others...:mad:

Don't tell me you don't have room for something when you run pokedex....

Also, the excess bebe/rosy are for consistency, and you discard the clutter ones that you don't need with dragon pump. That's the entire point of the deck is to run excess to get out what you need T1/2, then discard what you don't need.
 
Very Basic List:

Total= 60

Pokemon = 20
4- Kingdra LA
3- Seadra LA
4- Horsea LA
3- Claydol GE
3- Baltoy GE
2- Uxie LA
1- Unown [G] GE

Goods/Supporters/Stadiums = 32
4- Broken Time-Space PL
4- Bebe's Search MT
4- Roseanne's Research SW
2- Cynthia's Feelings LA
3- Expert Belt AR
4- Rare Candy GE
4- Super Scoop Up DP
3- Warp Point MD
3- Plus Power DP
2- Luxury Ball LA
1- Night Maintenance SW

Energy = 6
4- basic Water Energy DP
2- special Multi Energy MT

I have made this list as a starting point and I have carved out a nice list from here. I hope this helps you:)
 
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