Lost world + Gengar Viability
- Thread starter chetabear
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HAHA. Exaaaaactly...... thats why I'm in b4 it....
waynegg
CotD Editor<br>Forum Moderator
Good point. I didn't see it from the angle you were coming from. Thanks for pointing that out.
There's no way this deck will ever, ever win against sp on time in cut as things stand now at least against anything with dialga. And even if you are 100% against everything else if you can't beat sp its not a deck worth playing.
In 30+3 it might have a chance.
You kill two or three thing fairly quick, doesn't matter what don't even need to kill a gengar. Then you deffan for as long as you can, you make play and make time go by. If its top cut, I wouldn't even bother trying to win game 1 just do everything I can to make it take 40 mins, You wont be able to lost zone 6 guys in the next 20 mins(and even if you do see game one), I'll win game two on time, and ill win sudden death in two turns. Did I test this? Nope. Does that matter? No. Why not? Because this is obvious to anyone how has some knowledge of SP.
In 30+3 it might have a chance.
You kill two or three thing fairly quick, doesn't matter what don't even need to kill a gengar. Then you deffan for as long as you can, you make play and make time go by. If its top cut, I wouldn't even bother trying to win game 1 just do everything I can to make it take 40 mins, You wont be able to lost zone 6 guys in the next 20 mins(and even if you do see game one), I'll win game two on time, and ill win sudden death in two turns. Did I test this? Nope. Does that matter? No. Why not? Because this is obvious to anyone how has some knowledge of SP.
(1) If you seeker me a bunch you're not going to have a pixe to kill. I mean that the first thing i send back to my hand. And for everything else there is turn and well timed garchomp C X drops
(2) I mentioned before that winning game one doesn't matter right? If we're talking about swiss then I'm honestly not sure, the deck probably beats luxchomp /w dialga tech. But it probably can't stand up to dialga. Particularly the mewgar varients.
Honestly, the only effective way I see to play lost world is as a secondary win condition( or primary with a secondary win condition somewhere else), but that at first glance seems difficult to build correctly.
Even with your infallable mime jr idea, there's no way lostgar is gonna have a good sp matchup. Sp has to take like 1 or 2 prizes before all 6 pokes are put in the lost zone (very easy). almost any start with a cyrus can take a prize by turn two and deafen by turn 3. All of your arguments for lostgar require it to have an extremely inconsisten list. New sp lists could run 3-4 sp radar making it easy to keep pokes out of your hand. This makes your deck rely on seeker. You can't compete with luxchomp while using a seeker as a supporter every turn. Especially not if yer under deafan lock (no trainers or decent supporters leaves your total set up ability to... well... set up. Power Spray?
Back to the inconsistency topic: palkia g, a large stage 2 line, too many seekers, mew prime, maybe ditto, spiritomb TM, bad stadiums.
By the way, please only comment on the deck's flow/consistency if you've already tested it against decent sp players
---------- Post added 01/19/2011 at 05:45 PM ----------
How can you make this statement and expect to be taken seriously. Lost Zone isn't even out yet. Even if you have tested your lostgar deck against your friends, I doubt you know the deck as well as you seem to think.
Personally, I agree with your underlying message: Azelf x is good in lostgar. But until we give the deck time to settle into the format, no one knows if it is an essential card. Who knows, maybe there will be a much better tech that pervades the format. One that is not a dark attacker.
Also, what if the best lostgar deck turns out to be one that relies on mew putting your own gengar in the lost zone? stopping the weakness of your 60 hp attacker is not worth that card slot.
My point is that we are all completely ignorant of lostgar or other lost world decks, so umbrella statements like that have zero value right now.
Back to the inconsistency topic: palkia g, a large stage 2 line, too many seekers, mew prime, maybe ditto, spiritomb TM, bad stadiums.
By the way, please only comment on the deck's flow/consistency if you've already tested it against decent sp players
---------- Post added 01/19/2011 at 05:45 PM ----------
How can you make this statement and expect to be taken seriously. Lost Zone isn't even out yet. Even if you have tested your lostgar deck against your friends, I doubt you know the deck as well as you seem to think.
Personally, I agree with your underlying message: Azelf x is good in lostgar. But until we give the deck time to settle into the format, no one knows if it is an essential card. Who knows, maybe there will be a much better tech that pervades the format. One that is not a dark attacker.
Also, what if the best lostgar deck turns out to be one that relies on mew putting your own gengar in the lost zone? stopping the weakness of your 60 hp attacker is not worth that card slot.
My point is that we are all completely ignorant of lostgar or other lost world decks, so umbrella statements like that have zero value right now.
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pokemaster1970
New Member
I play tested against the Dallas Cities Champion at my league and beat him in twenty minutes three times with his LuxChomp deck (and he knew what deck I was testing so he could make any adjustments he needed the night before). It's a consistant deck, especially against SP that has no heavy hitters to OHKO any Gengar Primes. I can Seeker my pixies as fast as you can, denying your Garchomp easy hits, and still Lost Zone 1-2 Pokemon per turn. Twins gets me any two cards I need whenever I want, and as far as Dialga goes, there's nothing like fire pokemon to 1 or 2HKO your Dialga (not difficult to tech). Speed is the biggest determining factor against SP of course, but this isn't a trainer lock deck, so it can use BTS, rare candies, any trainers to search Pokemon, etc., which means I don't need to wait a turn or two like Mew Prime to start sending your Pokemon to the lost zone.
Thank you, pokemaster for offering your real-life, not imaginary experience against sp. Just wondering, how did those matches go? I mean like a little more specific. Did you opponent use dialga? if so did you use a fire attacker like blaziken fb? What kind of hands did your opponent get?
I'm not asking for like a tournament report or anything lol, I would just like some more in-depth knowledge about the matchup
I'm not asking for like a tournament report or anything lol, I would just like some more in-depth knowledge about the matchup
waynegg
CotD Editor<br>Forum Moderator
Froslass GL has a better retreat cost. Much better imo.
waynegg
CotD Editor<br>Forum Moderator
Hmm... I had completely forgotten that card. Great suggestion! It would be better in case you had to start with it. Other than that it wouldn't matter so much though. If you have the Froslass GL, it's definitely better.
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yoyofsho16
New Member
Mime Jr? Are you guys stupid?
You're going to counter an attacker using a 1 energy attack that can be Poke Turned AND runs Warp Energies with Encore... you're going to kick yourself in the face for wasting a precious slot.
You're going to counter an attacker using a 1 energy attack that can be Poke Turned AND runs Warp Energies with Encore... you're going to kick yourself in the face for wasting a precious slot.
I think a lot of games are gonna come down to how many times you can pull off that trick, and how quickly the Gengar player can force you to use it.
All it takes is you missing the Poketurn/warp energy/retreat once and thats game.
Keep in mind, matches have time limits. It has to be at least a thousand times easier for an sp deck to win on time than any lostgar varient.
plus there are other factors and variables involved in this situation than you are considering. First off, your 50 hp mime is going to be taking the hit every time. How many times can you remove damage with seekers when you cannot also use vs seeker or junk arm?
Plus, you can quick one of the dialgas, lowering his retreat to just one(no problem at all). Also, warp energies are reusable after turning a dialga which automatically doubles the movement capabilities of your turns. Junk Arm(s) will probably be played, along with a possible seeker.
It is much easier for the dialgachomp player to keep this up than the lostgar player
i_shikaXD
New Member
@those claiming mime Jr stops deafen
Double flash. & bite belted deafen says hi.
So does belted deafen & poison structure.
Poketurn,warp energy, lv up, and
retreating all pwn mime Jr.
Just pointing out the flaws to that strategy. all it does is give the dialga player another prize and makes them one step closer to winning.
Double flash. & bite belted deafen says hi.
So does belted deafen & poison structure.
Poketurn,warp energy, lv up, and
retreating all pwn mime Jr.
Just pointing out the flaws to that strategy. all it does is give the dialga player another prize and makes them one step closer to winning.
There are two ways to run lostgar imo.
-The good old vilegar route that prevents speed and sp decks from taking 6 prizes before you even have a chance to say "lost zone"
-The speed lostgar decks that ironcially have an awful matchups against the vilegar (and trainer lock in general) decks, lol
They'll both be tier 1 imo, but all the current tier 1 decks will still give the lostgar strategy a run for its money. I personally would just go the speed lostgar route and take the horrendous matchup against vilegar while every other non-trainer lock deck eats dust.
-The good old vilegar route that prevents speed and sp decks from taking 6 prizes before you even have a chance to say "lost zone"
-The speed lostgar decks that ironcially have an awful matchups against the vilegar (and trainer lock in general) decks, lol
They'll both be tier 1 imo, but all the current tier 1 decks will still give the lostgar strategy a run for its money. I personally would just go the speed lostgar route and take the horrendous matchup against vilegar while every other non-trainer lock deck eats dust.
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