No scholarships and ONE trip for our nationals?

[falcom4ever]

By the way the travel awards are decided according sales in the country and not according to number of participants at Nationals or the performances at Worlds. Canada is a (very) large country, but the population of 35 millions inhabitants is inferior to the Great Tokyo for example... I guess that maybe the cards sales became just inferior to some other countries and this might be one of the reasons why the 2nd travel award was cut.

I still don't understand what some Canadians want ? 1000$ all inclusive isn't that expensive for worlds... Each year most of people spend more than that for the air faire only. The worlds are in your country, be happy !!!

We all should be still happy that travels awards still exists for most of the champions...

 

[SebastianS]

take the bus?
It is a 3 DAY ride on the bus to get from Toronto>Vanc

How about you drive New York>Sanfran
or how about you drive 4,374 km to somewhere?(assuming you have a good gas mileage car, and assuming you have

NOT to mention, maybe(if you dont notice) that most pokemon players are poor students and or dont have the finances for such trips.

How do you expect them to get to worlds without paid trips
which means what INCENTIVE do they have to continue playing the game.

None. No competitive player plays for "fun"
Thats why I quit to play starcraft 2 professionally, but I enjoy attending nationals every year and taking a stab at it.
Sadly it will never be as good as it used to atleast prizewise.

Every year I come by when nationals roll around i keep on seeing prize cuts and it sucks.
All it takes is a $5-10 entry fee to major events(keep cities etc free).

If you have money for a booster pack.
You have money for tournament entry.

or ATLEAST, have entree fee for Masters players since obv, the younger division should be free to attract them

 

[Swordfish1989]

take the bus?
It is a 3 DAY ride on the bus to get from Toronto>Vanc

How about you drive New York>Sanfran
or how about you drive 4,374 km to somewhere?(assuming you have a good gas mileage car, and assuming you have

NOT to mention, maybe(if you dont notice) that most pokemon players are poor students and or dont have the finances for such trips.

How do you expect them to get to worlds without paid trips
which means what INCENTIVE do they have to continue playing the game.

None. No competitive player plays for "fun"
Thats why I quit to play starcraft 2 professionally, but I enjoy attending nationals every year and taking a stab at it.
Sadly it will never be as good as it used to atleast prizewise.

Every year I come by when nationals roll around i keep on seeing prize cuts and it sucks.
All it takes is a $5-10 entry fee to major events(keep cities etc free).

If you have money for a booster pack.
You have money for tournament entry.

or ATLEAST, have entree fee for Masters players since obv, the younger division should be free to attract them

Totally get where you're coming from... I stopped playing this game competitively for that reason. Sure, I have fun playing Pokemon, but I'm not going to shell out a ton of money for gas and hotel just to have a shot at winning prizes that pale in comparison to what I'd be spending to get there. So I just stick to BR/Cities/Pre-Releases

 

[Mystery Thing]

Does Canada have free events throughout the year like the USA?

Yes. The basic OP structure (BR/CC/STP/Reg/Nats) in Canada and the US is exactly the same.

 

[Otaku]

take the bus?
It is a 3 DAY ride on the bus to get from Toronto>Vanc

How about you drive New York>Sanfran

Perhaps you are less familiar with American culture than you realize.

Driving across the country is kind of a "thing". Few people do it, but a decent chunk of the population would like to, if they could afford the time and expenses. A major thing to consider is that it is sort of a young adult dream; the kind of thing college students would try to do over summer term (if they aren't taking any classes). It isn't too far removed from saying "Why don't you drive to Disney World?".

Rising fuel prices have really hurt this, plus to be honest it seems like most of us are more "high maintenance" than we used to be: seems like everyone has an allergy or similar medical condition that makes such a trip untenable. Still, for a set of young, healthy adults who are willing to pack carefully, take turns driving, and be frugal, the trip should still come in as less than airfare... or at least with the numbers you were citing: three friends gives us $3000 to work with, after all.

Now I always got the idea that Organized Play in Pokémon is mostly about the fans. The origin of the word "fan"; it is an Americanism that is short for "fanatic". If you're just in it for the Prizes, you're missing the point. Now I wonder if I am misunderstanding you; you are fond of the game but as a responsible person, even though you enjoy the game you just can't justify spending that much to attend Worlds... in which case it is unfortunate, but we don't live in a remotely ideal world.

tl;dr: Road trips are practically a rite of passage in the lower 48, or at least they used to be; Worlds is for the fans who can make it work and while more travel awards would be great, I don't think the cut backs were done lightly.

 

[sdrawkcab]

NoPoke Canada was in top cut 5/7. I know Greg Cresswell made cut in 2005, although I don't remember if we even had any masters in 2004...but still 6/8 possibly 6/9. Even if cf11 was talking about getting into world's cut he was said "consistently" not every year.

Italy, France, Germany and the UK get 2 paid trips this year.
2012 Masters / overall attendance:
Germany 165/271
France 113/208
Italy 91/142
UK 81/156

Interesting to note other countries had similar numbers and didn't get a t2 trip this year....
Canada 141/190
Netherlands 92/154
This list isn't complete either, there were a few others that didn't post attendance (Australia and Mexico)


What were the other prizes for these countries t4?

 

[sdrawkcab]

Perhaps you are less familiar with American culture than you realize.

Driving across the country is kind of a "thing". Few people do it, but a decent chunk of the population would like to, if they could afford the time and expenses. A major thing to consider is that it is sort of a young adult dream; the kind of thing college students would try to do over summer term (if they aren't taking any classes). It isn't too far removed from saying "Why don't you drive to Disney World?".

As much as it is a thing in the states, driving across Canada is a thing to. (Well we're really only limited to one highway though =p)

However its something you'd do over the period of a month, not for a weekend trip.

 

[cf11]

2012: http://www.pokemonworldchampionships.com/2012/results/tcg/#2_0_0

2011: http://www.pokemonworldchampionships.com/2011/results/tcg/#2_0_0

2010: http://www.pokemonworldchampionships.com/2010/results/tcg/#2_0_0

2009: http://www.pokemonworldchampionships.com/2009/content/standings/tcg/#2_0_0

2008: http://www.pokemonworldchampionships.com/2008/content/standings/worlds/#2_0_0

2007: http://www.pokemonworldchampionships.com/2007/brackets/data/

2006: http://www.pokemonworldchampionships.com/2006/content/brackets/Results.html

I think I'd reject the assertion that Canada is #2 in the world based upon the above.

@cf11: Canada consistently makes top cut as long as you ignore the years when they don't!

I was saying we get top 32 at nats every tear not worlds. Sorry I should have been more clear.

 

[Otaku]

As much as it is a thing in the states, driving across Canada is a thing to. (Well we're really only limited to one highway though =p)

However its something you'd do over the period of a month, not for a weekend trip.

Since I brought it up, my impression (by the time I was in a place I would have considered doing this, health problems made it a no-no) is that if you've got a destination/goal, you can pull shifts driving to reach it and it "still counts". While at times I'll play Devil's Advocate, in this case I am legitimately surprised that many consider it "impossible" to drive far enough. Of course, driving across Canada obviously isn't the same as driving across the U.S. (well, most of the U.S.), and it looks like Canadians that didn't win an trip are going to have to shell out for expensive airfare or need to burn a lot of time to make it to Worlds.

Since its Worlds, the "steep" demands seem reasonable. More travel awards would be great, but this uproar over the cut just seems like overkill. I'd just be grateful that

a) There is a World Championship.
b) There was at least one travel award (wasn't there?)
c) That at least there was more than one travel option.

I mean, when the event has been in Hawaii, for example, you have to fly in. I suppose you could fly or drive to a port and take a boat the rest of the way, but that seems a bit overly complex. It does make me wonder... what are train prices/schedules like up there?

 

[Mystery Thing]

It does make me wonder... what are train prices/schedules like up there?

Not feasible. Canada really doesn't have a cheap, economy-level train system. The only train option we have is VIA Rail.

You would have to depart Toronto on August 3, arriving August 7 (trip duration 3:14:42; the next train after that one leaves on the 6th and doesn't arrive until 9am on the 10th). The first departure from Vancouver is August 13 (arriving back in Toronto on the 17th). Round trip ticket cost is $1157.12 CAD.

 

[Pablo]

Im pretty sure Canada is the only country besides the USA who consistently gets top 32 every year

And this ignorant post just goes on to show how you think your country is 'teh best and teh only one'. Mexico has had a Top 32 at Nationals for Masters since 2005 without fail, not to mention we have greater attendance, and if you want to base it just on that, both Germany, Mexico and possibly Norway are stronger fields than Canada.Have you heard of those countries?

 

[falcom4ever]

Italy, France, Germany and the UK get 2 paid trips this year.
2012 Masters / overall attendance:
Germany 165/271
France 113/208
Italy 91/142
UK 81/156

Interesting to note other countries had similar numbers and didn't get a t2 trip this year....
Canada 141/190
Netherlands 92/154
This list isn't complete either, there were a few others that didn't post attendance (Australia and Mexico)


What were the other prizes for these countries t4?

Once for all, travel awards are given according local card sales and not the number of players at nationals
Otherwise Brazil and Australia would have two as they have top32, Argentina would have at least one, Hong Kong and Belgium would have 0, etc...

Canada is 35M inhab and Netherlands 16M. They have probably less sales than in France 65M, Italy 60M and Germany 82M...

The prizes are the same for all the countries exept the travel award.

 

[Mystery Thing]

And this ignorant post just goes on to show how you think your country is 'teh best and teh only one'. Mexico has had a Top 32 at Nationals for Masters since 2005 without fail, not to mention we have greater attendance, and if you want to base it just on that, both Germany, Mexico and possibly Norway are stronger fields than Canada.Have you heard of those countries?

Figure out the player per square kilometre for both Mexico and Canada and then tell me how that is even remotely a fair comparison. If our player based lived in even remotely the same proximity to each other as Mexicans do, I would bet that we would outdraw Mexican Nationals by a TON every year. (For comparison's sake, BC/Alberta/Saskatchewan alone are larger than Mexico.)

Really, there is no way to fairly compare Canada to any other country in the world simply because of the ridiculous amount of land mass we have between the groups of players.

 

[falcom4ever]

Figure out the player per square kilometre for both Mexico and Canada and then tell me how that is even remotely a fair comparison. If our player based lived in even remotely the same proximity to each other as Mexicans do, I would bet that we would outdraw Mexican Nationals by a TON every year.

Really, there is no way to fairly compare Canada to any other country in the world simply because of the ridiculous amount of land mass we have between the groups of players.

Brazil ? Australia ?

Anyway that does not justify the 2nd traval award for Canada, you still have to travel less and pay less thant players of other countries for this year.

 

[Mystery Thing]

Brazil ? Australia ?

Anyway that does not justify the 2nd traval award for Canada, you still have to travel less and pay less thant players of other countries for this year.

You're just flat out wrong that we have it cheaper and have to travel less than all other countries to get to Worlds this year. Than any non-North American country, sure. Just like every other year. But as of right now, a round trip ticket from Miami to Vancouver (pretty much as far away as you can possibly get that's within the continental USA) is $14 more than a round trip ticket from Toronto to Vancouver, so it follows that it's cheaper for almost the entire US.

As for distance, approximately 75% of the US and close to a third of Mexico are closer to Vancouver than Toronto is. Proof here. So yeah.

 

[sdrawkcab]

Pablo, what was the attendance / prizes for the last couple years in Mexico?

 

[NoPoke]

One trip is where the UK was for a long long time: last year was the first year that we had two TPCi paid trips. Last year the scholarship monies went away. Europe is predominantly a pay to play environment, making it very tricky to compare North America to Europe.


The reality is that there is no simple answer or explanation. Its not just about sales. Its not just about number of players. Its not just about performance at worlds. Its not just about play activity. Its not just about OP cost for that country. Its not even about how expensive it is to travel. Its not about highways. its not about buses. Its not about distance. Each year the OP budget gets allocated and each year individual countries end up better or worse off than last year.

With a limited budget it is quite possible that each year awkward decisions have to be made and the solution adopted is to move the pain around so that no area is forever blighted. Last year it got better for the UK, maybe next year it will be a little worse, but probably not much worse than it has been at some point in the past.

The grass is always greener elsewhere!

 

[falcom4ever]

You're just flat out wrong that we have it cheaper and have to travel less than all other countries to get to Worlds this year. Than any non-North American country, sure. Just like every other year. But as of right now, a round trip ticket from Miami to Vancouver (pretty much as far away as you can possibly get that's within the continental USA) is $14 more than a round trip ticket from Toronto to Vancouver, so it follows that it's cheaper for almost the entire US.

As for distance, approximately 75% of the US and close to a third of Mexico are closer to Vancouver than Toronto is. Proof here. So yeah.

And what about the non american countries and the ones that dont even have travel award for their champions ? They don't deserve worlds ?????????? Argentina made topcup at worlds the 4 past years and their Champion doesn't even have travel award ! And if you look at one of my previous posts in the first page, you will see that Argentina average income is quite inferior to the one in Canada.

I think that it would be fair to cut France, Italy, UK and Germany 2nd travel award and give it instead to the other champions in Argentina, Chile, Philippines, South Africa (there isn't even a travel award for the whole African continent), etc... It is not fair that a National Champion has not his chances to play at worlds because of money.

If you live in a western country and are a poor student, even with a summer job you can gather the money. In some countries like in Indonesia, even one year of work might not be enougth to have worlds experience.

This is not North America Championship mate.

 

[NoPoke]

*shrug* Its not about national champions getting a free trip to worlds either. If it was then the number of national tournaments would not exceed the number of trips.

 

[falcom4ever]

*shrug* Its not about national champions getting a free trip to worlds either. If it was then the number of national tournaments would not exceed the number of trips.

Of couse not, but I dont understand why there are canadians here complaining to have to pay 500/600$ for air fare if they finish 2nd. They say that it is so unfair because Canada is an expensive country, transport suck, Canada is the best Pokemon country (which is not) and they want free trips because they are not real pokemon tcg fans and otherwise they will quit.

Now I say while they are complaining there are players that win their national (some as competitive as Canada), they dont get the travel award and they have to pay much more money and make more financial efforts because wages are lower in their country.

But as I said and as you said, prizes are about sales in the country. And there I dont think that Canada is in the top5 of the countries with the highest sales of pokemon cards.