Ohio & player issues discussion.

[calisupra2nr]

dude, you yourself posted in your OP that you scooped and left, fuming...
if you post here, you're inviting anyone on the 'gym to post in reply...including other members, mods/admins, TPCi staff, judges, etc. so by posting here you ARE looking for their input: telling anyone that their opinion is not wanted in 'your' (...not) thread is against 'gym rules.

'mom

Fuming in my mind, not expressing it emotionally out loud... As for the input, I understand that I am opening up to comments from any members, but something should be said for being a specific scenario. This was clearly something only a few can relate to (being that it was in person and that there are a handful of players that feel pushed away by certain aspects of the game) and I wanted their input. Pokepop is doing what he does best in patroling and making sure his word is the snippiest, quickest comment to end all comments. It does not feel appropriate for those kinds of comments in this kind of scenario, as this is not the ask the rules team where he normally makes those kinds of remarks. Again, rudeness just seeps through all sorts of cracks in this community and no one says anything about it.

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Adam, I should point out, that the moment you decided to post your thoughts on a public forum, you were going to get input from people who weren't there or weren't involved. So people like PokePop will be posting their replies to your topic, whether you want them to or not.

Also, I want to let you know, that you are free to email me, pm me here on the 'gym, or even call me, if you ever have any concerns about any issues that come up at my tournaments. Sometimes these things are best handled in private, than in a public setting.

I think this would have been best and I apologize for ever bringing this up... I will either keep these things to myself or talk with you personally, as I clearly failed at the original goal of getting those close to the situation to discuss.

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Umm . . . see Biggie's post above.

IN YOUR OWN WORDS



Or are your own words that unreliable?

It was an expression relative to what I felt. I explained the actual detail above, none of it was actually storming lol.

 

[SteveP]

While spectating a Seniors match at 2008 US Nats, I scratched my nose a few times after shifting my glasses. A side-judge took me aside and questioned my "scratching," insinuating that I was passing signals. It was a completely false assumption / accusation.

If you are confident in your innocense, nothing else matters.

In the end, this side-judge and I shook hands. After a harsh, initial confrontation, we came to a better understand about each other and things in Pokemon OP. I recommend the same here. We need our casual players, perhaps more than we need our serious players, to remain amongst us.

 

[Biggie]

I clearly failed at the original goal of getting those close to the situation to discuss.

Why don't you take another stab at it? What exactly would you have liked to see done differently?

Telling people not to report stuff like your sleeves which were against the rules is no good because then you are asking them to potentially be victimized by someone with bad intent later.

So if it is "rude" to point out an issue, but players have to point out issues because judges cannot be everywhere, what would you like to see happen?

 

[calisupra2nr]

SteveP,
I could not agree more and this defintely enlightened me to certain aspects of the game and people. I hope that both sides of the party can walk away and change how they will handle things. I know I won't assume anything when I know I am right. I hope that Mike will try to be more easy on new/casual players to ensure their time is spent as best as possible while in an event. That is the last thing I will say about this, but obviously other's are free to continue.

Adam

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Why don't you take another stab at it? What exactly would you have liked to see done differently?

Telling people not to report stuff like your sleeves which were against the rules is no good because then you are asking them to potentially be victimized by someone with bad intent later.

So if it is "rude" to point out an issue, but players have to point out issues because judges cannot be everywhere, what would you like to see happen?

I just wish that players could be more faithful in their opponents and only call them out on something if they really believe they are cheating. I guess that is why I felt I was being called a cheater, because I would have only called someone out on something if I was sure they were.

Adam

 

[Biggie]

I just wish that players could be more faithful in their opponents and only call them out on something if they really believe they are cheating. I guess that is why I felt I was being called a cheater, because I would have only called someone out on something if I was sure they were.

Adam

Not trying to be snarky Adam, but you did see the bit where I explained that if anyone had called you a cheater you would have been looking at a DQ not a sleeve change right?
This is the primary issue folks seem to be taking with your grievance. You keep feeling as though you were called a cheater when not one person has at any point implied any such thing.
I believe you were not cheating because I have faith in our judges but have you ever heard the phrase "methinks she dost protest too much?"

 

[SteveP]

Why don't you take another stab at it? What exactly would you have liked to see done differently?

Telling people not to report stuff like your sleeves which were against the rules is no good because then you are asking them to potentially be victimized by someone with bad intent later.

So if it is "rude" to point out an issue, but players have to point out issues because judges cannot be everywhere, what would you like to see happen?

Dang, with a question like that, how can anyone resist!?:thumb:

Adam will have his own reply, but here's my 2-cents:

Actually, IMO, I think you guys made a very good move by reducing the Marked Cards - Major penalty this season. The only thing I think would've "added value" would be rename the penalty to something more PC - like "Irregular, Warn, or Damaged Cards/Sleeves." That's a "mouthful", but it doesn't carrry the connotations of cheating like the term "Marked Cards" does. JMO.

 

[calisupra2nr]

Not trying to be snarky Adam, but you did see the bit where I explained that if anyone had called you a cheater you would have been looking at a DQ not a sleeve change right?
This is the primary issue folks seem to be taking with your grievance. You keep feeling as though you were called a cheater when not one person has at any point implied any such thing.
I believe you were not cheating because I have faith in our judges but have you ever heard the phrase "methinks she dost protest too much?"

I understand that I would have been DQ if I was found cheating. That was never the case, I just did not want to spend that amount of time with someone who AT THE TIME I thought was calling me a cheater. I went through 2 deck checks and I even played the guy twice before this came up so it was concerning to me that he decided to call me on this when personally I would never even call someone out on something unless I thought they were actually cheating (otherwise what is the point in calling them out in the first place?)

I have not heard that phrase, but I understand what you are getting at. This is not a protest to the rules. Like I said to your response before, I just wish players would assume their opponent is innocent and keep the game fun and entertaining.

My mindset is that you have fun and avoid any unneeded interruption and confrontation unless you are sure your opponent is cheating. In which case you call over a judge to check. Questions such as a gameplay question are completely different and I understand stopping the game for that. Bigger things like this that question the integrity of the deck and player just bother me is all.

 

[NoPoke]

cheater or not cheater? How do you tell? How do you know? How can you be sure?

Much better to have a rule that cards should be uniform so that the option to potentially know what is in the prizes or where that critical LvX is in the deck is not there.

I know it is a surprise to many when they first come up against the marked card rules that they are not being accused of cheating. That the rule is there in no small part to protect players from widespread accusations of cheating. I very much doubt that either your opponent or the staff thought that you were cheating, or thought that they were accusing you of cheating, or even that you might interpret what was being said as a slur on your integrity. I suspect that you added the interpretation of cheater to the statement that your sleeves were marked. I wonder if you would have had the same response if the sleeves had been called damaged or worn rather than marked? Language can carry some unfortunate baggage sometimes.


[edit: seems like SteveP has the same thought on the avoidance of the term marked]

 

[Box of Fail]

Ok I just suggested closing it out of the requests others made to move on... apparently we need to continue rehashing.

I have not accused judges of acting in bad faith first of all. They performed all of their requested tasks perfectly fine. Secondly, I am putting out my experience to get feedback and input from players who can relate and those involved. I did not ask for your input, especially considering you are not involved in the situation at hand. And while this is not my thread anymore, the community did not ask for your input either, so it is safe to say you clearly just enjoy being the PokePOP of the world.

I can see how your stating that I stormed off in a cloud of righteous indignation, yet you were not even there. So the only plausible explanation for your ensuing rudeness was that you heard from someone else... is there gossiping going on behind people's backs in the Pokemon community? Is that how you are implying you know so much? Or are you just trying to place your thoughts (based on speculator's comments) on a situation you want to address? For whatever reason you clearly are offended and I think it is absurd that you decide to be so shrude with responses. Maybe I should just consider all of those you just said, or maybe I should just move on and not concern myself with this... either way I was never looking for your input.

PokePop didn't need to be there. Anyone looking at this thread has every right to make assumptions on what happened, I have made several assumptions about this scenario without a shred of concrete proof. But it's okay because my assumptions, as were PokePop's, I presume, were based off of your posts. You certainly made it sound like you did indeed "storm off".

You're a master, not a little kid. It seems childish to storm out of a room due to a sleeve warning. It's having a tantrum, plain and simple. Even IF you'd been unjustly flat out accused of cheating, you'd have gotten no sympathy from me if you'd run out of that room, "fuming", almost like a spoiled brat. Take the time to discuss the sleeve warning, instead of running out of the store, and complaining about it here. In fact, it tells me that you had very little faith in your ability to win that game, and that you're using the sleeve incident to make it seem like you got an undeserved loss.

You've bashed one of the most reasonable judges in Pokémon in your attempt to bring attention to something that deserves none. And, the sleeve warning has nothing to do with cheating whatsoever. If I knew for a fact, if that were somehow possible, that the sleeve markings were 100% unintentional, I'd still have given that warning.

No offense intended, I may have been a bit harsh, but I have no question that all parties were well-intentioned. So please get over this :/

 

[GinoLombardi21]

You did the right thing by storming out and getting away from the play area and cooling off. I've been in a similar situation like this before. You did the right thing by just getting away because its way better then creating psychical contact to someone or something. If this person thought that he could use a penalty stated in the penalty guidelines to his advantage, shame on him. If you stooped right down to his level, shame on you. The spirt of the game in pokemon is a twisted subject. It states have fun and be fair but they never amount to any of those things. This scenario just proves it.

 

[meganium45]

Hey, it is possible that the little guy just wanted our attention and not our input...

He came to the WRONG place for that:thumb:

Vince

 

[ryanvergel]

Why would you post a thread on a forum, and then tell the administrator of the site that his input isn't welcome. Then get off his boards? lol

Like Vince said, if you wanted people's attention, and not their input if they weren't directly there, then don't post grievances on a public, international forum.

 

[calisupra2nr]

PokePop didn't need to be there. Anyone looking at this thread has every right to make assumptions on what happened, I have made several assumptions about this scenario without a shred of concrete proof. But it's okay because my assumptions, as were PokePop's, I presume, were based off of your posts. You certainly made it sound like you did indeed "storm off".

You're a master, not a little kid. It seems childish to storm out of a room due to a sleeve warning. It's having a tantrum, plain and simple. Even IF you'd been unjustly flat out accused of cheating, you'd have gotten no sympathy from me if you'd run out of that room, "fuming", almost like a spoiled brat. Take the time to discuss the sleeve warning, instead of running out of the store, and complaining about it here. In fact, it tells me that you had very little faith in your ability to win that game, and that you're using the sleeve incident to make it seem like you got an undeserved loss.

You've bashed one of the most reasonable judges in Pokémon in your attempt to bring attention to something that deserves none. And, the sleeve warning has nothing to do with cheating whatsoever. If I knew for a fact, if that were somehow possible, that the sleeve markings were 100% unintentional, I'd still have given that warning.

No offense intended, I may have been a bit harsh, but I have no question that all parties were well-intentioned. So please get over this :/

Well again, read my definition of storming. It is relative to what was going through my mind at the time and by no means did I display a storming manner physically. Again maybe you should have literally witnessed the event yourself to call me childish and say I had a tantrum. No one would describe what happened as a tantrum. Did I walk out prematurely, yes but it was to cool off and get some things done.

Hey, it is possible that the little guy just wanted our attention and not our input...

He came to the WRONG place for that:thumb:

Vince

Yeah you should probably talk down to me when you do not even know me or have met me? It is pretty easy to talk like that over the internet though, as I would bet you would not say something like to someone's face. Do you enjoy being rude and making utterly useless posts?

 

[hinataluvs]

Wow really thats kinda stupid its a Battle roads not Nationals lol they shouldnt have to concentrate on the sleeves at least me and the other judges didnt when we checked the decks or anything after we went through their decks we always turn them over abd check their backs and if their were alot of sleeves messed up we had them change it but if their were 1 or 2 we didnt care cause alot of the damage to the sleeves are due to alot of playing with the sleeves.

And who Takes Pokemon seriously i mean come on its a game thats suppose to be fun not serious i always scoope when i face someone serious but that rarely happens like 1 or 2 times so far but if i can i try to beat them so i can see how mad they can get lol.

 

[meganium45]

Yes, yes I do.

And I don't think mine was a totally useless post.

Before you went "deep end" I was actually sympathetic on the early part of this thread. When you dive off the edge, guess what, this is a public board, and you open yourself up to comments.

You just have to know the rules going in.

I still feel sorry that you had that experience in an event. Noone wants people to leave this game having a bad time...but you have to follow the discussions, even when you don't always like what you are hearing.

Vince

 

[vanderbilt_grad]

calisupra2nr ... just a suggestion based on observation of your posts here and in many other threads.

Don't take things personally.

 

[Hiro]

Adam sent you a PM, please read it if you get a chance.

(Trying not to get involved, Trying not to get involved, Trying not to get involved, Trying not to get involved)

 

[The Gorn]

Is the implication that the opponent was willing to let the sleeves be a non-issue until he (the opponent) got into a more competitive situation and used the sleeves in a "rules lawyering" way in order to gain an advantage?

The guy is a judge. One would hope that wouldn't be the case.

And I think that he (the opponent) stated that he didn't notice a sleeve problem until then (when he pointed it out).

Unless this person has a history of "rules lawyering" to gain advantage, I see no reason to distrust them.

 

[ukpokemonpro]

With the amount of idignation righteous or otherwise flying around in this post everyone must feel like ducking before posting :redface: Anyhow here goes with my roundup and thoughts:

From what I have read - which is all the posts and from what can be inferred and interpreted from them the situation was basically this...

Your Opponent notices in game 2 of the finals that your sleeves are worn, a judge checks them and determins that 40% are worn and marked but that you are not cheating with them or seeking to mark particular cards in your deck.

You are asked to either replace the marked sleeves, re-sleeve your deck or play without them.

You think that they are accusing you of cheating, forfit the game and leave with your prizes, storming or not storming out the door.

Seems to me that you are being a little testy for no good reason, maybe it's the thought of the Homework, the journey, the hour of the day, whatever.. but it does seem that you have over reacted to a judge doing his job and enforcing the rules.

It has already been said, take some spare sleeves, get new ones, check they are uniform and lighten up yourself when playing the game of Pokemon.

And the message to us all in the community is to make sure our sleeves are uniform and unmarked before we play in any event, especially a premier event, from lowly BR's to Worlds sleeves are an ongoing issue, always have been, always will be.

 

[nuttysquirrel]

Adam,
I believe that Mike was trying to make you aware of you sleeves because if you did beat him and when to top 2. Your sleeve could've been called on and then you could've been accused of cheating. He is a good judge and i respect him alot. I don't think he would ever try to may any player feel like you felt on purpose.

I hope this doesn't discourage from playing in future premier tournaments. Stay positive and hope to see in some furture events.

HMC

Originally Posted by calisupra2nr
Next turn is going good for both of us and then this older man decides that I am a cheater.

Originally Posted by camerongira
dude did u do a deck check with a judge
if so then the judge should of told the old geaser that the sleeves are fine since he checked them already

Originally Posted by dustinmoe
Well looking at it seems strange a random 61 year old calls you out on something so small but he makes it a big deal..

Originally Posted by Kemony
Mike is just so old... -shakes head-

Originally Posted by EHLERZ5
Go to the next event, shake Geezer-Pika's hand

LOL I may be slow but your really old sir :biggrin: