Osama Binladin

[Absoltrainer]

The reason why I'm not in the military is because I don't want to give my life for something I know is wrong. Give my life for people who can care less if I live or die. There will be no good from that. If I die fighting for this or any country, wars will still happen and nothing will be solved.

That's actually not the reason you're not in the military and you and me both know it. And in all fairness, the military sure doesn't want people with your attitude in the military.

What I'd expect from an American who takes things at face value.

lol...............

Anyways, this has been fun, but I'm going to take the high-road and let the conversation die.

I've had about my share of this thread. I'm certainly not going to convince you of anything, nor you me. Neither of us gains anything from trying to convince the other of our respective points, nor loses anything from stopping, and thus continued argument would be a pointless waste of electricty and energy

But I'll say this:

Insult the politians, for I could care less about what people say about them.
Insult the military, the men and woman who fight and die for your freedom, and you'll just prove how un-American you are.

Osama wins when people lose faith in their own country.

GG

Peace, later, I'm done with this thread.

 

[Blitzer]

And what do you gain now that hes dead? The knowledge that thanks to this constant eye for an eye the next guy will loose his cousin as well? Yeah that would make me happy too.

There is always a next bin laden around the corner and thanks to US there are always enough people who will follow him.

Do you know about the backstory of Bin Laden? Of Sadam?

How about Chile?


America isnt evil? Yeah... Never forget 9/11.. 9/11/1973

Nice try, but we're not talking about 'just someone's cousin' were talking about Osama Bin laden, a mass murderer, and all you have to say is "So what, another will take his place (which I agree with)"

 

[Heartgold22]

Ok, I am sick of Un-American Americans that are complaining of us celebrating death, we are celebrating getting back a piece of mind, a piece of mind some of us lost when we were 5,6,7, or and of the youthful years(I was personally five). I am glad Osama is dead, it may upset the Radicals but it's too late not too. Also, to earlier posts, Christians are not in the wrong in celebrating his death, we have prayed for him to be stopped and now you are tryin to slap our hands, no. You all sound like those people that just sit around and suspect God to do His Work, no we must put our prayers on legs, like we have. And all I can say is "You can Kiss My Country A.."!

 

[Yoshi-]

Nice try, but we're not talking about 'just someone's cousin' were talking about Osama Bin laden, a mass murderer, and all you have to say is "So what, another will take his place (which I agree with)"

You misunderstand. I dont care about osama, hes a mass murderer and if hes dead, so be it. But what bugs me is this hollow triumph and feeling of revenge. The cousin Im talking about it the guy who will die because there will be more attacks, because osama just became a martyrer (no idea how you spell this in english), because more hate was spread.

Attacks will not stop because of this, and if you believe they will youre a fool. If hes dead so be it but where is the triumph? Its nothing but hollow revenge, yeah we killed him, so great now what? The moment he got shot he had all his dreams come true. Because this will create another wave of hate, more bloodshed, more dead brothers and cousins. The fight will go on til someone decides that revenge isnt worth anything. Not a single live was saved by killing him, just more dead bodies.

Hope your cousin likes this, sounds like a great thing to die for...
If Id die in something like that Id hope that people stay reasonable, that they understand that hatred isnt the way to go, that this solves nothing. If people would start understanding this, this would make me rest in peace.

And why am I the one who sounds like a christian? Because I understand the morals behind this despite not having seen a church from the inside since i was 10. While your great country under god is drooling in bloodlust.

@HEartgold

Peace of mind? Do you think that changes anything? Your piece of mind is jst as hollow as the fear you felt before, Im not going to deny that terrorism is horrible, horrible, but in the end its mass murder and what turns it into "terrorism" is the fear we spread, the way we ruin our lives by themselves.

It sounds ridiculus but how many people have died through terrorism in the us this year? And how many people died from the flue? Terrorism is nothing but some luncatis mass murdering people, the moment where we start to go at each others throat and sell our liberty for a fall sence of safety from a false fear, THIS is where terrorists win.

* They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin

e:/

Just to point this out, if only a single human being would be saved by killing him, go ahead. But who seriously thinks that an organisation that recruits its soldiers out of people who are desperate and full of hate because they were invaded and used and thirst for revenge can be stopped by killing someone for no reason but revenge doesnt think further then one step ahead.

 

[poke50000]

I'm not saying I'm not. I live in a country where our freedoms are given my words written on paper, in a country where you can't get a job after you have been looking for 5 months, in a country where no one helps, in a country of self-interest, where health care and school are not free, where the poor die off, in a country where only money talks. What do I have to be happy about?
i dont know about you but last time i checked this country was the easiet country to get a job... oh and ur right health care and school isnt free. My mom just didnt pay for school when i was in it and i just somehow got free doctor appointments while my mom was in law school

The way I see it, 9/11 was America's Karma. The countless Civil War we had, and the 2 nukes we dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing THOUSANDS on innocent people and people felt 9/11 was bad.
What is are alternative... let them kill us!![/B

How about you ask those people from Hiroshima and Nagasaki how their day went. The people who were waking up to go to work to find that that would be their last days on Earth. How about you ask the pilots who dropped the nuke on them what they felt. So, forgive me for not protecting a country of people who kill for not seeing things from our views.

We went over there to TAKE THEIR RESOURCES, 9/11 was just the icing on the cake.

You mix up proud and lucky. Im lucky to live in the "civilized" western world, incredibly lucky. But is the fact that we live in happiness because other people get exploited etc a thing to be proud off?!

Its not that were blessed because everyone is so great over here, its a combination of luck and awful crimes that we owe our was to live to...

you know you sound very ungreatful to me... i am glad that i live in america and i can tell you r not
nuff said about that

Probably the same way the soliders stationed in Hawaii on December 7th 1941 felt. Yeah, you know the ones belonging to the United States who wasn't part of a war yet. The ones waking up to go to church, or take a day off from working at the Naval Ship yards.





Apparently with no regrets.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-491170/Pilot-dropped-atomic-bomb-Hiroshima-dies-regrets.html

Just remember "Every terrorist killed, is one less who can strap a bomb to his chest and blow up a government building, hospital, or a school."

LOVE IT!!!

^ My point exactly. America is my no means an innocent party in this. It's our karma and people need to accept that.

We dropped a nuke on a country, there is no turning the other cheek on that one. I don't care what anyone says. Just like there are Americans who would want to kill thousands of other people from other countries for no reason... the nuke that killed thousands of innocent people, there will be people who kill us because they thinks it's right.

In all, both sides are wrong and I'm not going to defend anyone whos wrong. The reason I don't like topics like this because people are going to white knight, making this very opinion based.

Again what is are alternative ... let the people that we killed for a reason come and kill us . It is a dog eat dog world and we have to do what we have to do. And thats why we dont just nuke Pakistan and iraq and iran we could end everythingover there with just one command but we dont becuase we dont want to kill the innocents. Trust me we dont want to hurt innocents ... it is just sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do

Because killing a terrorist doesnt make 5 new ones at the end of the day...

Im not slandering anyone who fights for what he thinks is right because he has the right intentions, im slandering politicians who use people as tools for their countrys welth and hide it behind defending freedom...

What do you think what a 20 year old guy who saw how his family was killed in the us invasion thinks when he straps a bomb to himself? Who is willing to sacrifice his live to defend "his" freedom?

Do I defend terrorism? Definitly not.. But am I willing to look past the surface and look at what the US has done as their part to the situation? Supporting dictators as a defend against comunism? Killing democratically elected presidents to replace them with dictators(chile)?

The US has done a lot of awful stuff to a lot of countrys and now were surprised that in these countrys the hatred grows and grows? That there are religious leaders that use that opportunity to bring young and desperate people to do such things? Seriously? If you run headfirst into a hornets nest you shouldnt be surprised about the outcome....

Where could Sadam have gotten his nuclear weapons from?

"They dont have any nuclear weapons, we cant find anything mr bush"
"but theyre there, we know it"
"there is nothing..."
"there is, we still have a bunch of bills here"

yeah



Its not that easy, eye for an eye wont work til everyone is dead...

Again all people are like omg dont kill and and have wars but you would rather die than Kill us. I dont know about you but im not gonna fight unless someone fights me first and that is exactly was the USA is doing

I can't respect a country that does things I think are wrong. This country has not done anything worth wild for me. I only posted in this thread to show how many people would post 'pro american' things, like most people here would have as they take things at face value and those who have posted 'well, America is not all that innocent and here's why'.

What country on this earth wouldnt do the same thing america does for there country if not worse. What do u want us to do

America is good because we don't have to do that. The Military is like school. They TELL you what they want you to hear. They tell you how America is all great, just like any other country on the planet tells their troops what they want them to hear and how great their mother land is.

The reason why I'm not in the military is because I don't want to give my life for something I know is wrong. Give my life for people who can care less if I live or die. There will be no good from that. If I die fighting for this or any country, wars will still happen and nothing will be solved.

---------- Post added 05/02/2011 at 07:22 PM ----------



What I'd expect from an American who takes things at face value.

You know ... if everyone was like you on this topic we would be under terrorist control and be the worst slave country ever. If no one fought for there country there wouldnt be any war because we would just surrender.... i am glad everyone in the army doesnt think the way you do. You wont give your life for this country... i would without a thought

That's actually not the reason you're not in the military and you and me both know it. And in all fairness, the military sure doesn't want people with your attitude in the military.




lol...............

Anyways, this has been fun, but I'm going to take the high-road and let the conversation die.

I've had about my share of this thread. I'm certainly not going to convince you of anything, nor you me. Neither of us gains anything from trying to convince the other of our respective points, nor loses anything from stopping, and thus continued argument would be a pointless waste of electricty and energy

But I'll say this:

Insult the politians, for I could care less about what people say about them.
Insult the military, the men and woman who fight and die for your freedom, and you'll just prove how un-American you are.

Osama wins when people lose faith in their own country.

GG

Peace, later, I'm done with this thread.

Thank you!!! you speak the truth

Ok, I am sick of Un-American Americans that are complaining of us celebrating death, we are celebrating getting back a piece of mind, a piece of mind some of us lost when we were 5,6,7, or and of the youthful years(I was personally five). I am glad Osama is dead, it may upset the Radicals but it's too late not too. Also, to earlier posts, Christians are not in the wrong in celebrating his death, we have prayed for him to be stopped and now you are tryin to slap our hands, no. You all sound like those people that just sit around and suspect God to do His Work, no we must put our prayers on legs, like we have. And all I can say is "You can Kiss My Country A.."!

Ditto




All i got to say is if you dont like this country then get out of it... see if any other is better:biggrin:

---------- Post added 05/02/2011 at 04:42 PM ----------

I have a cousin who DIED in 9/11, and so for some people to say this isnt a big deal and that 'America is Bad' is pretty hurtful to me.

Seeing him gone takes a weight of my shoulders.

sorry for your loss i feel your pain

 

[Heartgold22]

@yoshi-:
The only thing we have in life is a peace of mind, for nothing is truly ours, not even our lives. The only thing they CAN'T take away is our beliefs. Fear is defined as "a distressing emotion aroused by impending danger, evil, pain, etc.," , how can the fear of 9/11 be shallow? I know that the war is not over but America deserves this. And really bringin up us nuking? Ditto- please tell me if we did not nuke them, how much longer would it have gone? 2,500 people died everyday in WWII, and 10,000 casualties in the Allies alone, I say we saved lives. No longer will I stand to hear this, so try your best as I will come back stronger!!!

 

[vaporeon]

Osama wons when we started strip searching people at airports.

---------- Post added 05/02/2011 at 09:17 PM ----------

Its no point in trying to talk to people about this. I forgot that America can do no wrong.

 

[Heartgold22]

Oh, look we have a smart alleck in the house, let's give a round of applause, and we can do wrong, nothing is perfect, and now you are making harsh statements because you have no real discussion, you are just like the people that in a middle of an arguement call that person a name and walk away.

 

[vaporeon]

I've been making valid post the whole time but its hard to talk to people who hear what they want to hear. I don't give into that crap. I personally have a problem when people thinks it's ok to kill someone because they felt they have been wrong. All parties in this are wrong.

I'm not saying what Osama did was right or wrong or what we did was right or wrong but who brags that you killed someone? I fell sorry for people here that only see 1 issue when there are so many more out there that started this.

 

[rokman]

to be absolutely frank, it looks no different (from an outsider's perspective) than footage of the same type of cheering captured from 'their' media outlets that outrages 'us' when rebroadcast here...

jmho
'mom

Actually, there is a pretty HUUUUGE difference.

People in the streets in the middle east after 9/11 burning American flags were cheering about the deaths of thousands of innocent people. (from their perspective, it's evil to be free? So it was okay for those people to die?)

When Americans are cheering for a major symbol of terrorism being conquered. Only idiots and morons are cheering for the death of a person. Osama Bin Laden was much more than a person...

And if you go off defending TERRORISM, and say it was wrong of Osama Bin Laden to die, then you're only fooling yourself.

Its no point in trying to talk to people about this. I forgot that America can do no wrong.

It's comments like these that are so.. dern frustrating! If Osama Bin Laden blew up a building in France and killed thousands of people. It would totally be acceptable for French soldiers to hunt down and murder the heck out of Osama. It would be okay for ANY country to do that if they were targeted the way America was.

 

[Tyraniking]

seriously: be thankful he's gone, say a prayer (if that's your thing) for, or remember those lost...but celebrations in the streets like one's team just won the super bowl? THAT'S the image we want broadcast to the rest of the world?

jmho
'mom

Pokemom's got it down. I'm glad he's dead. We rid the world of a terrorist that represents evil in so many ways...but celebrating someone's death doesn't make us any more whole than the terrorists.

 

[PokeMedic]

This country has not done anything worth wild for me. .

Ask not what your country can do for you -ask what you can do for your country.

...but celebrating someone's death

It was OSAMA BIN LADEN

 

[DarthPika]

I celebrate that an evil person can no longer harm anyone else. I do not celebrate that he was killed. There is a difference.

 

[vaporeon]

Ask not what your country can do for you -ask what you can do for your country.

I guess I had that one coming,lol.

 

[crazypokemon]

Im kinda havig a hard time believing this is real, it kinda happend outta knowhere.
Also from what i heard he died the same day as hitler, is that true?

What do you think is to come to the future after this.

 

[vaporeon]

^ It's just a big conspiracy.

 

[TheKing]

In that case, Hitler never died

 

[Cyrus]

Actually, there is a pretty HUUUUGE difference.

People in the streets in the middle east after 9/11 burning American flags were cheering about the deaths of thousands of innocent people. (from their perspective, it's evil to be free? So it was okay for those people to die?)

When Americans are cheering for a major symbol of terrorism being conquered. Only idiots and morons are cheering for the death of a person. Osama Bin Laden was much more than a person...

And if you go off defending TERRORISM, and say it was wrong of Osama Bin Laden to die, then you're only fooling yourself.

In substance, that's the crucial difference, but in aesthetic (what Pokemom was bemoaning), it's really similar.

And yeah, you say idiots and morons are cheering for a person's death...And you'd be right! There are thousands of people who were doing that yesterday.

 

[Jayson]

Take two steps back; try and look at things from an impartial perspective, free of as much bias and personal experience as possible. Forget us and them, we and they, Americans and terrorists. Set aside all of the artificial distinctions and definitions that are agreed upon within our culture and just look at this for what it really is. It may seem morbid or unpleasant but I think it would do everyone good, as a simple thought experiment, to try and walk a mile in bin Ladin's shoes. Learn what you can about his history, his ideology, and the circumstances that led him to violence. I'm sure it's all been summed up neatly in a documentary or wiki page somewhere. Try and understand the man before passing judgement, or if you're not willing to do so, maybe it would be best to withhold judgement altogether.

All that aside, what's done is done and what really matters now is how should we move forward from here? First, this is a really good opportunity to examine our own moral standards. It seems most people would agree that killing civilians to further political or ideological goals is wrong. There is a very elementary moral principle that we probably understand but often fail to employ: if an action is right (or wrong) for others, it is right (or wrong) for us. If it is wrong when others kill civilians here in the US, it is wrong when we kill civilians elsewhere in the world. If it would be wrong for a foreign power to occupy our land with military forces, support oppressive and unpopular regimes and infringe upon our sovereignty in many other ways, it is wrong for us to do this to them. There are a lot of bad people in the world doing things that to any rational, moral individual are clearly wrong; we just seem to have trouble making this judgement when it is our own government or military (or a client regime that we support) that is committing the reprehensible act. If it is terrorism when a rogue organization causes civilian death, suffering and fear in pursuit of their goals, shouldn't we also call it terrorism when our much bigger, more powerful state organizations do the same?

How else can we move forward from here? Well, it sure would be nice to reclaim some of the civil liberties that were opportunistically seized in the initial knee-jerk, fear-mongering response to 9/11. It would also be nice to seriously re-assess the wars we are involved in and compare the expected results to the stated intentions behind those wars. We should also be vigilant to understand what the unstated intentions behind those wars might have been: who is really benefiting from all this bloodshed? If you haven't heard Eisenhower's warning in his farewell speech against the dangers of the military-industrial complex, it is an important concept to understand. There is a serious potential for conflict of interest when the lines between military leaders, military suppliers, and pro-military lobbyists are fuzzy at best. Has there been such a conflict of interest? When you look at the price tag on the military budget and the shady tactics employed by the corporations that supply our military with weapons, mercenaries, fuel, etc. it is a very difficult question to dismiss.

I'm not here to argue, just to put some information out there for everyone to think about and to help to answer any questions people might have. It's important to stick to the facts as best as we can, and unfortunately those facts are uncertain in situations like these where a lot of the relevant information is classified. I try not to speak with absolute certainty about any of this because I'm not an expert, I don't have perfect knowledge of middle eastern politics (or anything else for that matter) and I try not to make any unjustified assumptions. I also try not to automatically accept the official story or the majority opinion on contentious issues like this because everyone else is more or less as fallible as I am. I invite you all to do the same.

 

[chase4787]

^ Must thank...but CAN'T!
Great post, couldn't agree more
stupid limit