Platinum Shaymin Revealed!

[Dr. Mason]

OK OK, let me explain.

A good Pokeblower+ line is four cards. Four cards. and you have to have two in your hand, at once, to get a good effect. Cradily is a stage 2 fossil, and Palkia is a level X who's powers can be blocked easily with Ampharos.

Zangoose is a Basic Pokemon. It wouldn't be beyond insanity to suggest him to be a starter, because he disrupts you so easily. If you even think about playing Dialga without a switch trainer or a lucky Level MAX, he's drag it up and beat it out. Think about it, what else can so quickly force up a Benched Pokemon. And unlike Pokeblower+, you deal a quick 20 damage, putting Dialga within easier KO range. Torterra does 100, 100 HP left, perfect. This is great in Ampharos decks too EVEN WITHOUT FACING DIALGA, because it does what Manectric can't, and lets you pick on anything. But yes, what mostly makes him good is the fact that he is a basic, and therefore incredibly easy to tech in any deck. Unlike Level X and Stage 2 Pokemon, which reqyuire certain support, and unlike Pokeblower +, which is not even searchable. A simple Roseanne's nets you the ability to force up a Pokemon, and that's all you need.

And that's why Zangoose is the best tech available for Dialga.

Yes, they do need to draw it; but if they can, and odds are that many times they will, it has the same outcome as a switch.

No, because Zangoose won't be active anymore, and you can put up something that can take a hit.

 

[ApachePrime]

Moving Dialga to the bench is worthless. LevelMAX makes benching a non-issue(On a coin flip, but still effective). Also, Energy Gain makes Dialga G's attacks much better at the loss of Unown G. There are certainly ways to play around most anything you want to include Dialga G into a deck.

 

[Brady1]

*plays unown Q* *attaches unown Q to dialgia G* *attaches energy to dialgia* *retreats dialgia* *sends up main attacker* *main attacker takes prize against zangoose* *waits for answer to dialgia now on the bench* Seriously, this is non-sense. Q/G BOTH counter zangoose and MOST decks run them. Even if your deck doesn't (...say what??), running 2-5 switching cards in a deck with level X(s) isn't unheard of. This and most of the other counters that have been mentioned are pretty unreliable. The best counter to dialgia is pretty obvious and has been an answer to decks for so long it's not even funny. :/

 

[Dr. Mason]

Moving Dialga to the bench is worthless. LevelMAX makes benching a non-issue(On a coin flip, but still effective). Also, Energy Gain makes Dialga G's attacks much better at the loss of Unown G. There are certainly ways to play around most anything you want to include Dialga G into a deck.

Show me a decklist that fits in all of these anti-counters, without being an SP deck to begin with, and I'll show you a losing deck. Yes, against an SP centered deck with Dialga, there will be trouble. As a tech, it's not a huge problem and won't stop Body-centric decks from seeing plenty of play. It's a minor setback to be dealt with. Also remember that all of Dialga G's attacks cost at least one [M] Energy, there's no way around that.

Unown Q is not a constant tech but it is used. But again, how many tech spaces are you going to have in your deck? Show me this magical tech line that is so unstoppable, without messing up the rest of the deck, and maybe I'd believe it.

 

[bullados]

Torterra's answer to Dialga G? Torterra. That's the answer. G your Dialga all you want. Torterra will still take it out in 2 hits with any attack, guaranteed.

 

[Dr. Mason]

Well of course but only if you're behind prizes to force it up. I'm showing off Zangoose as a quicker, anytime solution.

 

[ShinySwampert]

Switch is used alot more than that.....alot.



Yes, they do need to draw it; but if they can, and odds are that many times they will, it has the same outcome as a switch.

No, Warp Point is more common. Look at decks in the Deck Help forum. Switch is not often used without a non-retreater or Palkia.

The odds of drawing a Switch/Warp point differ throughout the game, but with only 2 in your deck, saying that ""the odds are that many times" they will draw it isn't really accurate. More like sometimes they will.

But anyway, I'm not arguing for Zangoose. There are plenty of other real counters to Dialga.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

The best counter to dialgia is pretty obvious and has been an answer to decks for so long it's not even funny. :/

Ok. And the counter is... *drumroll*

 

[GOROY]

No, Warp Point is more common. Look at decks in the Deck Help forum. Switch is not often used without a non-retreater or Palkia.

The odds of drawing a Switch/Warp point differ throughout the game, but with only 2 in your deck, saying that ""the odds are that many times" they will draw it isn't really accurate. More like sometimes they will.

Not everybody in the pokemon community hangs around the pokegym, let alone the deck help forum - which is definately a good place to get deck help and share information - but in an average tournament, switch is definately used as much as warp point, if not more than it. Many decks run both in case of situations like this, as well as more than 2- I can't remember any decks in recent memory that ran 2 or less switching cards.

Also, it's definately "many times", because there is so much draw in this format: Claydol, Uxie, Uxie Lv. X, Pokedex Handy 910is, Cynthia, Prof. Oak's Visit, Pokedrawer, Unown R. Not to mention I've seen and played against decks that ran many of these cards together. In one turn I can cosmic power, set up, pokedex, pokedex again, trade off, use a supporer, etc.

 

[ShinySwampert]

Not everybody in the pokemon community hangs around the pokegym, let alone the deck help forum - which is definately a good place to get deck help and share information - but in an average tournament, switch is definately used as much as warp point, if not more than it. Many decks run both in case of situations like this, as well as more than 2- I can't remember any decks in recent memory that ran 2 or less switching cards.

Also, it's definately "many times", because there is so much draw in this format: Claydol, Uxie, Uxie Lv. X, Pokedex Handy 910is, Cynthia, Prof. Oak's Visit, Pokedrawer, Unown R. Not to mention I've seen and played against decks that ran many of these cards together. In one turn I can cosmic power, set up, pokedex, pokedex again, trade off, use a supporer, etc.

I think it's safe to say that Pokegym is a pretty accurate representation of the Pokemon community. Players from around the world post here. Switch isn't as common as Warp Point. Players rarely run both because of deck space limitations. So they choose Warp Point because of the potential disruption. I'm not new to tournaments. I rarely see Switch without Palkia or a non-retreater.

There are usually only two Switch/Warp Point in your deck. There isn't a great chance of drawing into one, especially if one is prized. Of course, the more cards you draw, the better the chance, but "sometimes" is more accurate than "many times".

This discussion is trivial. We're off topic.

 

[GOROY]

I think it's safe to say that Pokegym is a pretty accurate representation of the Pokemon community. Players from around the world post here. Switch isn't as common as Warp Point. Players rarely run both because of deck space limitations. So they choose Warp Point because of the potential disruption. I'm not new to tournaments. I rarely see Switch without Palkia or a non-retreater.

There are usually only two Switch/Warp Point in your deck. There isn't a great chance of drawing into one, especially if one is prized. Of course, the more cards you draw, the better the chance, but "sometimes" is more accurate than "many times".

This discussion is trivial. We're off topic.

I still disagree with you, but there is no point in forcing this discussion any further as neither one of us is ever going to say anything but "your wrong this" or "your wrong that". And - we pretty much hijacked this thread...

This Shaymin is very interesting, I just don't like the fact that it removes the special conditions, it could be comboed well if it wasn't for that aspect..still, 80 for 2 is not bad at all.

 

[dave628]

shaymin has a nice 2nd attack.

 

[Dr. Mason]

I still disagree with you, but there is no point in forcing this discussion any further as neither one of us is ever going to say anything but "your wrong this" or "your wrong that". And - we pretty much hijacked this thread...

This Shaymin is very interesting, I just don't like the fact that it removes the special conditions, it could be comboed well if it wasn't for that aspect..still, 80 for 2 is not bad at all.

Think of it this way. Darkrai and some scoop ups? Vileplume? 80 every turn? 40 HP bonus off the X? Think of a line like this.

3-1 Shaymin
3-2-3-1 Vilplume/Bellossom
1-0-1 Energy Trans Sceptile
3-1 Uxie or 2-2 Dol
2 Darkrai9whichever olne that has put into play sleep]

With plenty of scoop up and Pokeblower. It's an exact Claydol too which kind of helps. I wouldn't consider the deck a marvel, but interesting.

 

[dave628]

md darkrai is the one you are thinking of.

 

[Pajamas]

40 HP bonus off the X?

All Shaymin are specifically excluded from getting the HP bonus from the Lv.X.

I just don't like the fact that it removes the special conditions

It's worth noting that if your opponent has protected themselves with Unown G, you could place a special condition with a power (Darkrai MD, Skuntank G, etc.), and then the Unown G prevents you from removing the condition. Combining this Shaymin with something that is usually adversely affected by G puts your opponent in a very tight spot.

 

[GOROY]

Think of it this way. Darkrai and some scoop ups? Vileplume? 80 every turn? 40 HP bonus off the X? Think of a line like this.

3-1 Shaymin
3-2-3-1 Vilplume/Bellossom
1-0-1 Energy Trans Sceptile
3-1 Uxie or 2-2 Dol
2 Darkrai9whichever olne that has put into play sleep]

With plenty of scoop up and Pokeblower. It's an exact Claydol too which kind of helps. I wouldn't consider the deck a marvel, but interesting.

I agree, those all work but it really weems like a lot of work for 80 damage, Darkrai would be good, or Skuntank G. Vileplume needs an energy attachment and is a stage 2. Granted, it does seem like a great combo - Im just not sold on the whole getting rid of special conditions thing..lol

It's worth noting that if your opponent has protected themselves with Unown G, you could place a special condition with a power (Darkrai MD, Skuntank G, etc.), and then the Unown G prevents you from removing the condition. Combining this Shaymin with something that is usually adversely affected by G puts your opponent in a very tight spot.

That would make a great tactic, as long as my opponent attaches G..

 

[Dr. Mason]

I agree, those all work but it really weems like a lot of work for 80 damage, Darkrai would be good, or Skuntank G. Vileplume needs an energy attachment and is a stage 2. Granted, it does seem like a great combo - Im just not sold on the whole getting rid of special conditions thing..lol




That would make a great tactic, as long as my opponent attaches G..

That's why I have energy Trans Sceptile, so no energy is wasted.

 

[ShinySwampert]

That would make a great tactic, as long as my opponent attaches G..

Put a Duskull on your bench. That'll make them play G.

 

[GOROY]

That's why I have energy Trans Sceptile, so no energy is wasted.

That's a bunch of stage two's...I'd go with Darkrai since it is an instant special condition. This could work out though, especially with resistance to Kingdra - Shaymin has resistance, right?

 

[Dr. Mason]

lolwut? GG teched a 1-0-1 Noir and did fine. And yes.

 

[GOROY]

Gardy and Gallade also both evolve from the same pokemon.. I'm not saying its impossible, it just seems like a lot in a format where speed is key.