Pokebeach: A 'Note' About Prerelease Scans
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psychup2034
New Member
I'm saying more of it because it's true that WPM is the easier target. Whether you think that he's being targeted because he's an easier target, or he's being targeted for some other reason, is up to you to decide.
It's not just that he is a weak link in the chain. It's also that he's one of the easier targets because of his past checkered relationship with Pokemon-affiliated entities. Put yourself in the position of someone who has been respected in the community for a long time. (I'm thinking of a couple specific people who have posted in this thread when I write this.) It's way more convenient to appropriate blame on WPM than it is to try to look for the PTO—who could very well also be a respected member of the community for a long time—who is leaking the scans.
While WPM may have technically conducted litigation-worthy activity by posting scans early, he's certainly being used as a scapegoat by some people in this thread.
Isn't that why we post? To express our opinions? My opinion happens to be shared by several other posters in this thread, as does yours.
---------- Post added 01/28/2013 at 07:13 PM ----------
Have you ever read a news story where someone speaks "on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to comment?" It's the same type of thing going on here.
While PTOs technically have signed NDAs, whether they follow those NDAs is an entirely different story. It's just like when have a license and get in your car to drive, you have technically agreed to follow all traffic rules and speed limits, but whether you actually follow the speed limit all the time is an entirely different story.
Sometimes when you're driving and in a rush, you think to yourself, "the speed limit is 55, but there aren't many cars on the highway so I could drive 65 as long as I don't get caught by the police." Similarly, a PTO could think to him/herself, "I'm not allowed to send scans to Pokebeach to get them posted, but who's actually going to catch me? As long as I don't get caught, I should send the scans in so other players can see them early too."
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FirestormXVI
Member
Probably because by concentrating on the bolded fragment, you're ignoring the context it's in. He points to Serebii as an example of a webmaster who acted in a negative way towards WPM in the past. The "sick-in-the-head" was a bit uncalled for but congratulations on ignoring everything else and zeroing in on that one line.
This move was pretty smart on PokeBeach's part. The site is already positioned as the place to go for scans. Even if they're at the same time as everyone else, they don't lose traffic because that's where people go. Don't annoy the company or tournament staff and still get the traffic. Win-win. Unless of course their old source starts giving them to another site that is willing to break the embargo date.
P_A
Active Member
Then there's always the possibility of a relative or employee of a person who IS under an NDA. Although the PTO (or possibly other employee of TPCi) are considered responsible for actions committed by members of their family when it comes to this sort of thing, it might be unrealistic to expect that these ones are caught with the evidence so to speak. And even if they were, it might be considerably harder for a PTO to give them up.
Mystery Thing
Administrator
Enough about Serebii, guys. This has nothing to do with what went on there.
Anywho, you assume it's a PTO. The cards don't magically go from the templaters at TPCI to the PTOs. There are a TON of steps in the middle, and it's entirely possible that his source was somewhere in there.
There was one set (I don't remember which one; it was in the HGSS block IIRC) where he had scans up before the PTOs had even received their shipments for PRs. Not to say that he didn't have more than one source - maybe he does have a crooked PTO (yes, I feel that would be a fair tagging if there is somebody) in his list of sources on assorted things, but the point is that it isn't necessarily a PTO who is/was giving him information.
Anywho, you assume it's a PTO. The cards don't magically go from the templaters at TPCI to the PTOs. There are a TON of steps in the middle, and it's entirely possible that his source was somewhere in there.
There was one set (I don't remember which one; it was in the HGSS block IIRC) where he had scans up before the PTOs had even received their shipments for PRs. Not to say that he didn't have more than one source - maybe he does have a crooked PTO (yes, I feel that would be a fair tagging if there is somebody) in his list of sources on assorted things, but the point is that it isn't necessarily a PTO who is/was giving him information.
psychup2034
New Member
Other possible adjectives include audacious, courageous, or even undaunted.
Mystery Thing
Administrator
psychup2034
New Member
It depends on the situation. Sometimes, even breaking actual laws can be courageous, depending on the situation (Paul Revere, Rosa Parks, etc.). Obviously, much less courage is required for someone to be willing to risk their relationship with Pokemon (and possible legal repercussions) to deliver expedient information to the players, but I still find that the person willing to reveal the scans early to be courageous. Your implication that someone who breaks an NDA must necessarily not be courageous is thoughtless.
A more relevant example might be someone like Julian Assange. Some people consider him a traitor because what he did was technically illegal, but considering that those laws were written by a group of people with vested interest in preventing the public from seeing the information that is illegal to disseminate, others find his actions courageous.
Often times people sign agreements because they have to in order to take part in an activity or benefit from some service. Breaking an agreement (especially when the clause that is being broken was not the primary reason for establishing the agreement to begin with) is not necessarily morally reprehensible.
Mystery Thing
Administrator
When it comes to the situation we are talking about - no lives at stake, no physical danger to anybody - no, it's not "courageous." Unless you actually think it's reasonable to compare players who want to know what shiny cardboard they can get in a week/don't want to spend $30 to American revolutionists who want to know about impending death, or people fighting for basic rights.
I always thought it comedic that people think of him as a traitor. He's not American. By definition, he cannot be a traitor. The soldier who gave him stuff? There's an argument to be made there, but it's impossible for Assange to be a traitor. Anyways, trying to compare the information that he released to the information that WPM released is absolutely ridiculous.
I've never been in favor of the lynching of WPM. I may vehemently disagree with him releasing stuff, but I'm not saying he's the one that should be the target of the hunting.
psychup2034
New Member
I noted when I used the example that the actions I was contrasting were significant on different orders of magnitude. The appropriateness of adjectives that you are I wish to bestow upon that individual who releases card scans/translations to Pokebeach is subjective.
I never said that I believe that Bradley Manning's (or Assange's) actions are as impactful as the person who releases cards/scans. As someone who can read statements contextually would understand, I brought up the point to demonstrate that different individuals can have different interpretations of the same action. Some believe that Assange's actions are treacherous, while others view him as courageous. This was a salient example that that demonstrates a point you seemed to be unable to wrap your mind around: someone breaking a law or agreement can be deemed courageous, depending on one's perspective.
Great, we agree here!
JohnnyBlaze
New Member
On a related note to copyright protections, can someone please explain to me why Playtcgme site is not an infringement on said copyrights especially since we have PTCGO? The day of the pre-release, Playtcgme already had their scans in their system to playtest on their site. So this would mean to me that a PTO is leaking the scans to the owner of Playtcgme. As a business, how is this not hurting Nintendo and the PTCGO site?
I see this as the same exact issue of what everyone is going after Pokebeach for, if not even worse. What gives?
I see this as the same exact issue of what everyone is going after Pokebeach for, if not even worse. What gives?
Top Cut Comics
Member
If I am not mistaken, this is not about scans going up the day of a prerelease. It was the release of information PRIOR to those releases that has gotten WPM in the stew he currently sits in.
My 2 cents... No one twisted WPM's arm to put the scans up. Even if he had the scans given to him by someone breaking an NDA. He posted them of his own free will KNOWING this was not appropriate.
People are privy to all sorts of information. Sometimes people are lucky enough to have information before anyone else. That does not mean they have to ensure everyone else in the world has to know that information.
The facts are, he chose to defy the suits. Heck, there was a time I admired what he was doing. I even commended him on standing his ground. Mostly because there was a time I, myself did the same thing.
We all grow up. It takes some of us a little longer to do so. I am glad he finally jumped that hurdle.
I personally will NEVER forgive him for posting my Nationals Deck on his front page 2 days before the tournament. That was just a personal attack I wont get over.
Jimmy
Kayle
Active Member
I don't understand what is going on in this thread at all. Or in people's heads.
Something happened.
What happened? WPM chose to wait to post prerelease scans from now on so that we wouldn't see them before they are officially released.
Is this a good thing or not? I think we have an obvious consensus that this is a good thing.
Why are we taking this any further? Why are we hassling him about things he used to do? I don't understand.
Are you mad about having to read a wall of text???
Something happened.
What happened? WPM chose to wait to post prerelease scans from now on so that we wouldn't see them before they are officially released.
Is this a good thing or not? I think we have an obvious consensus that this is a good thing.
Why are we taking this any further? Why are we hassling him about things he used to do? I don't understand.
Are you mad about having to read a wall of text???koltonsdragonite
Active Member
He posted your Nats deck on the front page? How did that happen?
losjackal
Technical Administrator
I don't see what is making you think that, because...
- PlayTcg.me utilizes decklists stored on BebesSearch.com.
- BebesSearch.com utilizes scans from PokeBeach.com.
- PokeBeach.com posted scans on the day of the pre-release.
I think the fact that this thread continues to generate posts has to do with the fact that actions have consequences. For many years WPM chose to behave in a certain way, which was supported by some and opposed by others. Waking up one morning and saying I see the error of my ways and will now behave in a different way does not immediately erase all past behavior. Credibility and trust take a long time to build but can be erased in an instant. That's just the way things are in the world.I don't understand what is going on in this thread at all. Or in people's heads.
Something happened.
What happened? WPM chose to wait to post prerelease scans from now on so that we wouldn't see them before they are officially released.
Is this a good thing or not? I think we have an obvious consensus that this is a good thing.
Why are we taking this any further? Why are we hassling him about things he used to do? I don't understand.
I was one of those who didn't particularly appreciate the past actions of WPM so I am pleased to hear that he is at least stating publically that he has decided to change his way of doing business. However, having said that I would also say that it will take some time observing him walking the talk before I develop much trust in what he is saying. It's not that people can't change, but the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, and until WPM ha a track record of following through on what he says he is now doing people will continue to use that past behavior in forming their opinions of him. Actions have consequences.
BDS
BDS, PokeMom, PokePop...
I'm a competitive player so this is from my point of view. I don't get why Nintendo doesn't just release the scans themselves? They drum up interest and hype in the prereleases and get people fired up. I personally will only go to prereleases if I feel there is enough good cards in a set that my odds of pull something are decent more than shooting for the 1 chase card. I understand they don't want to spoil "the surprise" but lets be honest most competitive players don't like the surprise and want to know a head of time. The younger and newer players that want to be surprised will simply not look on line. Sure you have a point by saying people will discuss it and ruin others fun but thats going to happen anyways due to spoilers from Japan and not necessarly from the early scans.
Honestly if I was Nintendo I would take advantage of this hype and do a better job of covering these new sets even if they don't want to release full set lists/pictures. Above and beyond this mirage with a site like The Top Cut. There is a huge demand for content like scans and matches and most other games (yugioh/magic) have realized this and used this content to promote their own sites instead of letting fan sites do all the work. I honestly think Pokemon would grow tremendously if the company would move forward and embrace this change instead of fight it.
I'm a competitive player so this is from my point of view. I don't get why Nintendo doesn't just release the scans themselves? They drum up interest and hype in the prereleases and get people fired up. I personally will only go to prereleases if I feel there is enough good cards in a set that my odds of pull something are decent more than shooting for the 1 chase card. I understand they don't want to spoil "the surprise" but lets be honest most competitive players don't like the surprise and want to know a head of time. The younger and newer players that want to be surprised will simply not look on line. Sure you have a point by saying people will discuss it and ruin others fun but thats going to happen anyways due to spoilers from Japan and not necessarly from the early scans.
Honestly if I was Nintendo I would take advantage of this hype and do a better job of covering these new sets even if they don't want to release full set lists/pictures. Above and beyond this mirage with a site like The Top Cut. There is a huge demand for content like scans and matches and most other games (yugioh/magic) have realized this and used this content to promote their own sites instead of letting fan sites do all the work. I honestly think Pokemon would grow tremendously if the company would move forward and embrace this change instead of fight it.
Not exactly sure why this was addressed to me since up til now the sum total of my contribution to this thread has been to unlock it. But, since you ask...
I haven't really discussed the subject you are asking about with Pokemon, so even if I wanted to, I couldn't answer for them or try to present their side. All I can do is give my opinion, which may or may not have some worth.
I think Pokemon wants to give sneak peeks of the new sets. (side note: Pokemon. Not Nintendo. Nintendo is a related, but totally different company)
They have been releasing images of a number of the cards from the set ahead of time.
Balancing that, I think they also want a new set to be discovered by players opening up booster packs, not by looking at sterile images on a website.
I remember a good amount of excitement when it was realized that Sandstorm contained a number of cards that were brand new ones that we got before Japan. I think they'd like to recapture more of that kind of excitement, if they could.
Regarding the whole early scan release/PokeBeach thing, I have always had and continue to have the following view. It is my view and not necessarily that held by Pokemon, the PokeGym, or other members of Team Compendium.
I personally think that WPM did nothing wrong.
He sees his site as a news site. It publishes news about Pokemon. Someone gave him something that was newsworthy about Pokemon and he published it. 1st amendment, freedom of the press, and all that it entails.
On the other hand, whoever has been acting as a source for PokeBeach and supplying these scans early is almost certainly violating an NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement); Either their own that they signed themselves, or an NDA that their employer or family member signed and that they either morally or legally are bound to uphold. And THAT person is who I have a major problem with. As I'm sure you realize, the 5 owners of the PokeGym are each and every one of us PTOs for Pokemon and so have access to the new set before the Prereleases. We could easily scan and upload images of the new set as early as or earlier than the PokeBeach has been revealing them. But we are bound by our NDAs and we honor that agreement. So it has been galling to sit by and watch another website do what we are bound from doing because of the actions of this unknown person.
But that's just my opinion.
Envoyofduels
New Member
want to surprise us? release Good English exclusives/Full art cards and do NOT promote all of them. (like reveal one, but not the other two or the fact of how many exclusives there are) THEN I will be surprised at a prerelease.
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