Public Announcement: STRATEGY does NOT = BuildMeAList :/

[Vegeta ss4]

Mod inconsistancy is huge! Just saying...

I've spoken my mind on what needs to be done. We need a subforum...easy as that.

 

[EeveeLover]

My posts were to answer specific questions and provide the information. That really did not leave room for discussion as to the how or why the rules are set. Most have been around since I joined the site.

I could ramble on and babble about useless stuff, but I chose to answer the questions and leave it at that. Sorry if that implied that I have an attitude about people or their opinions. But I don't.

Vegeta,

As far as the new forum, what is your suggestion? I must have missed it somewhere. Are you for a 'New Players' area to teach them the ropes about the site that they can get good information from respected, knowledgable players, or were you for a 'Elite Players' area so that the elites had a place where the n00bs counld not bother them at?

To all, Mod consistancy is an issue. I totally agree with that. No arguement from me at all.

Having the diverse group of people working on this site, ranging in ages as we do, with different backgrounds and experience will cause that.

We all have the same rules to enforce (decklist if you will). Learning to use the rules and the tools that we have takes time and practice (testing). We are not perfect. We do make mistakes. But, we try our best to learn from the mistakes and move on.

While R_A and I have been the only Staff to post in here, trust me - all the Staff is looking at this topic. No, we don't like to see our faults - but who does? We are discussing things and trying to improve.

To those that feel that we are too harsh, drop a post in the TC hideout with the rule(s) that you feel are outdated or need to be thought out more and let the Onwers see your thoughts.

Approaching things rationally with well thought out points accomplishes a lot more than simple 'The Gym / Rules Suck(s)' type posts.

Enough from me now.

 

[Vegeta ss4]

Either or is fine.

But truthfully, this is what we need.

Not neccesarily an elite or noob subforum. What we need is a more adult friendly subforum. While I am not permitting cursing or things of "mature" nature. Just a site, where typically the masters will go, to help with decks, speak our mind basically. Not neccesarily being harsh, but not quite holding back on things. I don't mean insults and things of that nature, I am merely saying on the gym we hold a lot back.

If we were to have an adultish subforum, we need age verification or you can't get into the subforum, this is something that should be accomplished with ease.



To the mods, inconsistancy is something that shouldn't be allowed. No matter who you are, or what you stand for. If there is a post in a thread that gets deleted and that user gets infractions because they didn't follow guidelines, that's fine. But if you are NOT the only one who did this, then it is NOT ok to just pick the last post and try to set the grown rules there. Not only are you accomplishing nothing, you are ruining peoples opinions and iniative to want to post on this site in fear of infractions.

I realize the job at hand is time consuming, annoying, hard, and complicated. But, its a job, deal with it. Do it correctly, or do not do it at all.
This is a pet peeve of mine, Work is categorized as WORK..so do the work, or find someone else to do it.

With this said, don't catch the wrong idea. I respect the mods, and when they do a good job, they do a GREAT job.

I am only speaking for the majority of peoples opinions, perhaps im not qualified for that task, but I am stepping up and saying what needed to be said.

Also, let's gets some mods posting in here. We need perspective!

-Nathan

PS-
@R_A, I don't consider pokemon for "little kids." Otherwise I wouldn't play this game

 

[EeveeLover]

Here is the problem with an 'adult' forum.

Technically wise.

How hard is it for me to prove how old you are? I can go by the date of birth that you entered into the registration form, but is that accurate? Now, I am sure yours is correct, but how about the other 20,000 people on this site?

I catch people lying about their age all the time. Some do it to try and get around the COPPA forms, some do it to just be older on the forums.

Second issue.

What do we allow the cut off for the age limit?

I know 40 year olds that I would not consider adult enough. I know 12 year olds that I would.

Also, for the forum you say this

'While I am not permitting cursing or things of "mature" nature. Just a site, where typically the masters will go, to help with decks, speak our mind basically. Not neccesarily being harsh, but not quite holding back on things. I don't mean insults and things of that nature'

what exactly would the point be then?

Isn't that all what happens now on the regular version of the forums? I am not shooting down the idea, it just looks like you want something that is what we already have that the 'kids' can't go to. I don't see that happening.

Speak you mind, work on decks, have fun, just keep it clean, don't insult each other, try not to be harsh, ect. That is what we ask from everyone now and that doesn't happen. Why would it happen so easily in the 'adult' side? Again, it really looks like you are saying the 'kids' cause all the issues.

And again, the Mods would still be in there as well.

 

[nnaann]

Here is the problem with an 'adult' forum.

Technically wise.

How hard is it for me to prove how old you are? I can go by the date of birth that you entered into the registration form, but is that accurate? Now, I am sure yours is correct, but how about the other 20,000 people on this site?

I catch people lying about their age all the time. Some do it to try and get around the COPPA forms, some do it to just be older on the forums.

Second issue.

What do we allow the cut off for the age limit?

I know 40 year olds that I would not consider adult enough. I know 12 year olds that I would.

Also, for the forum you say this


what exactly would the point be then?

Isn't that all what happens now on the regular version of the forums? I am not shooting down the idea, it just looks like you want something that is what we already have that the 'kids' can't go to. I don't see that happening.

Speak you mind, work on decks, have fun, just keep it clean, don't insult each other, try not to be harsh, ect. That is what we ask from everyone now and that doesn't happen. Why would it happen so easily in the 'adult' side? Again, it really looks like you are saying the 'kids' cause all the issues.

And again, the Mods would still be in there as well.

I don't think under-age people getting in would be a big deal, it's not like the forum would be full of swearing and other problems you don't like on the Pokegym. It would just be a chance for people to speak their mind and give harsh criticism to those who are mature enough to handle it. If someone under-age did get into it and wasn't mature enough to handle it, they'd likely just post less in that forum and move back to the usual ones. They wouldn't be scarred for life, or anything like that.

I don't have a problem with younger kids using this site, and I don't think anyone else does. It's just difficult to make everyone happy when you have 11-12 year olds right through to adults using the same forum, people have different needs. At that age, when someone makes alot of changes to your deck or shoots down your ideas, you can take it to heart. I'd much rather have someone tell me my idea is trash, then run it in a tournament and perform poorly with it.

I also get really frustrated with all the negativity about discussion with any form of change on the Pokegym, especially from the Moderators. Personally, I find it pretty ironic when one of the Pokegym's rules are -

Posting that your or someone else's group or opinion isn't welcome.

 

[toxictaipan]

I'm with EeveeLover on this one. I don't think an age restricted section is going to do any good if there's nothing else added to it. I also don't think there's anything wrong with being blunt about something, as long as you aren't overly rude and you don't cross into personal attacks. There's no need to sugarcoat anything.


I think PokeGym could lax up on their rules a little bit, but having a PG-13+ section seems rather pointless now. There are other websites for that.

 

[Rogue Archetype]

Speak your mind, work on decks, have fun, just keep it clean, don't insult each other, try not to be harsh, ect. That is what we ask from everyone now and that doesn't happen. Why would it happen so easily in the 'adult' side? Again, it really looks like you are saying the 'kids' cause all the issues.

And again, the Mods would still be in there as well.

BOLDED for emphasis.

This is what it ALL boils down to...

It's NOT an "age thing," it's not an "experience" thing, it's NOT site vs. site, it's NOT "pro" vs. "noob"

THE SITUATION AT HAND IS ...

PEOPLE ... NEED... TO ... COMPREHEND.. THE CONCEPT ... OF... MUTUAL REPECT!!!!

If everyone SIG'd what eeveelover just said, a TON of our MOD problems would go away.

We are all trying to encourage an enviroment where every does what eeveelover just said. ^^^


TIME FOR MY SOAPBOX RANT MOMENT (you've all had yours...):

I'm having a problem with people who don't take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for their OWN contributions to the problem.

There's just WAY too many people who are biting at the bit to complain and moan about ANY problem that is mentioned. These people just stand around - pointing fingers and folding their arms while everyone else scrambles to find a remedy for the problem.

The problems will ALWAYS exist if there are going to be people who think that it's "somebody else's problem to fix." While they just ... continue to contribute to the problem on their end.

People like to talk about things they're "tired" of.
Well, I'm REALLY tired of people acting any-old-kinda-way and not taking responsibility for the effects of their actions - the part THEY played in the scenario.

• How many bad posts did YOU report so we could find and fix them?
• How many times did YOU go into a thread and post random silly gibberish just to get attention to yourself?
• How many times have YOU actually gone into a thread and offered some BETTER advice to someone?
• How do YOU respond to people that don't agree with something you said? Did you try to 'destroy' them for having the nerve to disagree with you?

Some people have will have absolutely NO desire to CONTRIBUTE positively to anything, but they expect everything to be laid out perfectly for them by the time they log on.

Frankly, if YOU are part of the community, and YOU are a jerk. Then, we're going to have jerks within our community (and one of those jerks is YOU!). Don't complain that there are jerks until you remedy the situation as best YOU can by ... not being one of those jerks.

Feel me?

I don't think under-age people getting in would be a big deal, it's not like the forum would be full of swearing and other problems you don't like on the Pokegym. It would just be a chance for people to speak their mind and give harsh criticism to those who are mature enough to handle it.

That's a general problem right there.

People who say things like this, are not sure what they're asking for.

It's like you're saying you want "a place where we can GO OFF! but... not like we'll be going off or anything... but ... if we GO OFF! there wouldn't be any repercussions as much.. but... nobody would feel bad if they got hammered... So, basically we just want a place to act immature. :thumb:"

That sort of request for a "RED ZONE" is completely inconsistent with purpose of a fan site.

We're all here to promote and discuss our enjoyment of Pokemon; Its games, its events, its TV shows, its movies, etc.

So, being a jerk to someone else has nothing to do with promoting Pokemon.
Posting little obnoxious off-topic remarks that only ticks people off have nothing to do with promoting your enjoyment of Pokemon.

I'm sorry that you don't have an appreciation for the fact that the TARGET AUDIENCE of the Pokemon product is roughly ages 7 -15, but it kinda is; other ages just happen to enjoy it.
So, creating a limited-access portion of this site that excludes the target audience is just rediculous.

People aren't SUPPOSED to act-a-fool in public.

You're supposed to represent YOURSELF in a respectable manner. If we all did this, then collectively, we'd all make the site one that is respected.

but.. we're up against a Jerry Springer effect here.
There seems to be more glory in telling someone off than having a conversation with them. :frown:

Instead of debating the effectiveness of people who are trying to enforce respect, how about people just improve their approach toward others?

How about learning to disagree and debate on a topic WITHOUT trying to diminish/destroy/humiliate someone else?

When I was young, I participated in a lot of Rap Battles. Those were all about humiliating someone else, but when it's all done, both sides are cool because they went into it with a shared expectation and nobody got their feelings hurt.

HOWEVER ... On a public discussion board about P O K E M O N, noone should come out feeling humiliated and destroyed.

So, it's not about "who can take it," it's about there should be nothing to take in the first place.

So... this is what's up...

Speak your mind, work on decks, have fun, just keep it clean, don't insult each other, try not to be harsh, ect. That is what we ask from everyone now and that doesn't happen. Why would it happen so easily in the 'adult' side? Again, it really looks like you are saying the 'kids' cause all the issues.

And again, the Mods would still be in there as well.

It has nothing to do with age.

I'd take BabyMario, Elite4Allen, and other seniors that carry themselves in a higher esteem over most "adults" any day.

 

[baby mario]

I'd take BabyMario, Elite4Allen, and other seniors that carry themselves in a higher esteem over most "adults" any day.

I'm probably not the best example, RA. For one thing, I'm not a Senior any more, and for another I'm guilty of at least 2 of the things on your list, if I'm honest.

I do agree that there's not really a need for an 'adult' sub-forum. I doubt that anyone doesn't post here cos they can't swear and insult people, and there are ways of being telling it like it is while staying in the rules. I don't think I sugarcoat things really, and I don't have THAT many infractions.

 

[Vegeta ss4]

Yes, there are other sites. That's the thing, people do not want to be affiliated with this site.

 

[EeveeLover]

The thought that keeps going through my mind on why the 'Adult' area of the site would be so better and follow the rules so much better is you (general) would have no one to show off too...

Food for thought.

The other thing that I see is that with those other sites, people still come here for some reason - even though they are embarrassed to admit it.

 

[Jaeger]

Lets not even use the word adult. Lets use the terms Beginner and Advanced. Beginners can advice on there builds and more of a general idea where in the advance more advanced players can get hard honest feedback.

 

[nnaann]

That's a general problem right there.

People who say things like this, are not sure what they're asking for.

It's like you're saying you want "a place where we can GO OFF! but... not like we'll be going off or anything... but ... if we GO OFF! there wouldn't be any repercussions as much.. but... nobody would feel bad if they got hammered... So, basically we just want a place to act immature. :thumb:"

That sort of request for a "RED ZONE" is completely inconsistent with purpose of a fan site.

We're all here to promote and discuss our enjoyment of Pokemon; Its games, its events, its TV shows, its movies, etc.

So, being a jerk to someone else has nothing to do with promoting Pokemon.
Posting little obnoxious off-topic remarks that only ticks people off have nothing to do with promoting your enjoyment of Pokemon.

I'm sorry that you don't have an appreciation for the fact that the TARGET AUDIENCE of the Pokemon product is roughly ages 7 -15, but it kinda is; other ages just happen to enjoy it.
So, creating a limited-access portion of this site that excludes the target audience is just rediculous.

People aren't SUPPOSED to act-a-fool in public.

You're supposed to represent YOURSELF in a respectable manner. If we all did this, then collectively, we'd all make the site one that is respected.

but.. we're up against a Jerry Springer effect here.
There seems to be more glory in telling someone off than having a conversation with them. :frown:

Instead of debating the effectiveness of people who are trying to enforce respect, how about people just improve their approach toward others?

How about learning to disagree and debate on a topic WITHOUT trying to diminish/destroy/humiliate someone else?

When I was young, I participated in a lot of Rap Battles. Those were all about humiliating someone else, but when it's all done, both sides are cool because they went into it with a shared expectation and nobody got their feelings hurt.

HOWEVER ... On a public discussion board about P O K E M O N, noone should come out feeling humiliated and destroyed.

So, it's not about "who can take it," it's about there should be nothing to take in the first place.

So... this is what's up...

Cool post, it's given me some stuff to think about.

I think that there's two big target markets for Pokemon. Younger players are the future of the game and are probably have the most people interested in Pokemon. 15+ make up most of the tournament attendances and help to make older people less awkward about playing a kids card game, plus generate the most profit for Pokemon. I think the Pokegym would be stupid to ignore either of these groups, because they're both so important.

I think as you get older playing Pokemon, certain things start to become more important to you. You get the maturity to test more seriously, discuss more indepth ideas, the opportunities to travel to more tournaments and stuff like ranking placings become more important. Your aims change, and I think a different forum would be nice to reflect that.

I definitely wouldn't like an adult part of the website for being to be rude, to swear or anything else that doesn't benefit those people as players in any way. I discuss deck lists/ideas with my friends a lot and we'll be honest if we think an idea is terrible, but don't want to come off rude with it. I guess I'd just want a part of the website which still has the Pokegym rules, but is less restricted to what it is at the moment.

I know that a lot of older and more experienced players don't like posting on Pokegym anymore because of all rule enforcements, and you can see how popular Heytrainer has got from it all.

I think younger players would benefit alot from having players they look up to and respect talking on the Pokegym a lot more, and can learn alot from that. Having the adult part of the forum visible to everyone, but just limiting younger kids from posting, would help them gain that and improve the Pokegym's credability without them posting themselves and getting a knock on their confidence by having their ideas dismissed. Having it visable to everyone would stop alot of the curiosty from people lying about their age to become able to access the adult forum.

As an example, someone might post a deck idea which isn't that great.

'Haha, that's a really bad deck and wouldn't work at all in our metagame. It's a horrible idea and you'll do terribly if you play that in a tournament.'

'This is a cool idea, but I don't think it will work that well in our metagame. I think SP decks are too fast for it right now, and it might struggle against Gyarados hitting 90 damage every turn. .'

Both posts get the same point across and quickly show the person that their deck won't do that great, and prevents them from taking a knock on their confidence by doing badly at a tournament. But the second post shows that you can be honest and go against what the Pokegym allow at the moment, while not being rude and a jerk when you don't need to be. That's what I'd like to see .

 

[xcfrisco]

Yeah my biggest problem when reading "helpful" posts are that a lot of "beginners" are giving really really bad advice, and this imo leads to most of the flaming and rude remarks on this site. Age does not necessarily reflect who is a beginner or not, but there certainly is a HUGE correlation imo between the amount of people in "not as competitive age groups or environments" and the amount of bad advice they give.

I'm in the camp that contributions are great, and no one like dead forums. But tbh I'd much rather have a thread with only two posts that are top-quality and inciteful to high level play than have a thread with 30 posts and 25 of them are awful from a competitive standpoint.

Why cant we have different forums dedicated to junior, senior, and masters age groups? People think this might be too divisive amongst the younger age groups, but i think it would help this site A LOT by reducing the amount of flaming and rude remarks due to a poster's very clear inexperience with high level pokemon play.

A way we could make it work is have all the juniors be ale to read and post in their forum, but only be able to read the senior and master forums. The seniors could help out the juniors too, as in be able to psot in their forum, and they would have their own forum to post in, but can only read the master forums. The masters would have access to all the deck help and strategy forums do to the highest likelihood of having experienced tournament play. I know people lie about their age all the time, but if we could link our 'gym forums to our POP IDs or something to verify our ages, well then there you go!

I have absolutely nothing in terms of a vendetta or something against the younger age divisions. I've lost my fair amount on non-OP tourney matches to senior and junior players! But I swear on my brand new toyota that a lot of the lower quality posts that I read are from inexperienced players. Maybe my different forum idea isn't the way to go, but there really really really needs to be a way to prevent inexperienced players from posting, if not to improve the overall quality of the site and help curb the "disdain" that some people have in real life for posting here.

 

[EeveeLover]

Lets not even use the word adult. Lets use the terms Beginner and Advanced. Beginners can advice on there builds and more of a general idea where in the advance more advanced players can get hard honest feedback.

But does that honest feedback have to come at the expense of being rude or harsh to someone?

Giving good, helpful advice should be the thing to do whether it is a day 1 player or a worlds level player.

Personal attacks, rudeness, flat useless posts like - your deck and + this deck do not need to happen - no matter the level or age.

As an example Jay, you are a Worlds level player. Would you expect people to treat you like crap just because of that level of play? Would you expect them to be rude or flat out attack you as a person? I would hope not, yet that is what it seems like is being asked for.

I want people to be themselves. I want people to have fun. I want the PokeGym to be a place people (all levels) enjoy coming to.

I also want people to be civil and show some respect to their fellow players.

The behavior that happens on this site would not be tolerated at Nats or Worlds. I could just see how Dave, Dan, Brad, Mike, Angela or any of the others would handle some of the stuff here. People would cease to play the game, as they would be banned for their actions.

These are the same actions you guys are wanting us to turn a blind eye to.

I don't get it. I must just be too old now days.

 

[xcfrisco]

But does that honest feedback have to come at the expense of being rude or harsh to someone?

Giving good, helpful advice should be the thing to do whether it is a day 1 player or a worlds level player.

See that's where our philosphies differ. There's a really really high chance that "helpful" advice from a Day 1 player isn't going to be helpful at all. Day 1 players probably look at a card like call energy and tell me to only 1 or 2 cause I'll only use its effect once in a match right so why bother playing more copies of a card that only provides colorless energy? They don't understand many, if not most of the values that are concerned with high level pokemon play.

And this Day 1 player is gonna be told his advice sucks. Why beat around the bush? I've gone to very extreme lengths of niceness within my posts, even if the face of laughable hositility, to point out the flaws in "beginner" players logic and guess what? They ignore it or tell me I'm wrong way more than half the time. Makes me definitely not want to post in ANY thread anymore when some garbage player is gonna come in and say "dont listen to xcfrisco, you dont NEED to do that" when garbage player only plays pokemon with his friends, has probably never top cut in his life, and probably doesnt have most, if any, of the means to support his pokemon hobby without his parents.

I'm trying to give advice that helps people have success with their deck, and pretty much every person who has an account on pokegym can come in and tell me my advice sucks when really random pokegym poster has no idea what their talking about. That's my number one gripe with this site.

And its not just a problem here. Every hobby site I visit nowadays is all about pushing "the largest amount of product" and the "the bottom line" and "$ $ bill yall" so they take away or dont put any features to make top quality players want to post more. So guess what happens to the site? The quality players dont post there anymore, the quality of the site itself for finding useful infromation goes to crud, and the quality players end up having to make their own site anyways which ends up being really elitist cause its only top players. Meanwhile, all the new, average, or slightly above average players stick with pokegym cause they hate the elitism of the Pro* sites but are largely tempted to join anyway cause the amount of posts that are just garbage on pokegym or *insert hobby site that just got a huge boost in popularity here* cause all the mods and the people who run the site want to cater to the LARGEST amount of people, not the people who drive 4 hours for tournaments, actually PRACTICE day in and day out for said hobby, and are pretty much the only reason the hobby has any sort of credibility.

So all the top players stay the same, all the new and average players are stuck looking for advice on pokegym (remember that example where I said in a 30 post thread 25 of those posts are garbage? you get tired of looking after a while), and you basically get what you have now and it's probably not going to change unless there's ANY incentive for the top players to start posting on this site rather than all the exclusive elitist ones.



PS. only take my first paragraph seriously the rest was mostly a rant on the state of the interwebz, lol

 

[EeveeLover]

See that's where our philosphies differ. There's a really really high chance that "helpful" advice from a Day 1 player isn't going to be helpful at all. Day 1 players probably look at a card like call energy and tell me to only 1 or 2 cause I'll only use its effect once in a match right so why bother playing more copies of a card that only provides colorless energy? They don't understand many, if not most of the values that are concerned with high level pokemon play.

And this Day 1 player is gonna be told his advice sucks. Why beat around the bush? I've gone to very extreme lengths of niceness within my posts, even if the face of laughable hositility, to point out the flaws in "beginner" players logic and guess what? They ignore it or tell me I'm wrong way more than half the time. Makes me definitely not want to post in ANY thread anymore when some garbage player is gonna come in and say "dont listen to xcfrisco, you dont NEED to do that" when garbage player only plays pokemon with his friends, has probably never top cut in his life, and probably doesnt have most, if any, of the means to support his pokemon hobby without his parents.

I'm trying to give advice that helps people have success with their deck, and pretty much every person who has an account on pokegym can come in and tell me my advice sucks when really random pokegym poster has no idea what their talking about. That's my number one gripe with this site.

And its not just a problem here. Every hobby site I visit nowadays is all about pushing "the largest amount of product" and the "the bottom line" and "$ $ bill yall" so they take away or dont put any features to make top quality players want to post more. So guess what happens to the site? The quality players dont post there anymore, the quality of the site itself for finding useful infromation goes to crud, and the quality players end up having to make their own site anyways which ends up being really elitist cause its only top players. Meanwhile, all the new, average, or slightly above average players stick with pokegym cause they hate the elitism of the Pro* sites but are largely tempted to join anyway cause the amount of posts that are just garbage on pokegym or *insert hobby site that just got a huge boost in popularity here* cause all the mods and the people who run the site want to cater to the LARGEST amount of people, not the people who drive 4 hours for tournaments, actually PRACTICE day in and day out for said hobby, and are pretty much the only reason the hobby has any sort of credibility.

So all the top players stay the same, all the new and average players are stuck looking for advice on pokegym (remember that example where I said in a 30 post thread 25 of those posts are garbage? you get tired of looking after a while), and you basically get what you have now and it's probably not going to change unless there's ANY incentive for the top players to start posting on this site rather than all the exclusive elitist ones.



PS. only take my first paragraph seriously the rest was mostly a rant on the state of the interwebz, lol

How about the incentive to make better players. Better players make better competition. Better competition makes for better events. Better events makes for bigger events. Bigger events make for bigger points and prizes. Somewhere in there should be more events too, I just don't know where.

That, I would think, would be compensation we would all like to see.

How many times can the same elite player kick the same n00bs to the curb before it gets boring?

Did you notice the Georgia Marathon? The attendance and the players that show up from 20 different states. For a City Championship?!?!?!?

Apparently people like good competition.

Seems like a good pay off.

 

[xcfrisco]

How about the incentive to make better players .

Unfortunately I dont think it works that way, lol. In a perfect world all the top quality posts that are aimed to make players better would rise to the top., ie their thread would get the most amount of views, posts get the most amount of thanks, always be on the top of the forums, etc. And all the spam and garbage arguments would just sink to the bottom of the thread/forum. What actually happens is the threads with the most amount of posts are usually the ones with A.) the most arguing and flaming, or B.) some speculation thread theorymon scenario of what the next metagame is gonna be like.

I think there's way too many people posting on the internet, aka pokegym, just for the sake of posting, and not really to make players better (which is what pokegym is all about right?). Like I said for every like 1 good post here that I find inciteful to make me a better player, or every 1 post I post to try to "make players better," I have to deal with at least 5 very very "inexperienced" posts or just plain out awful ones. I think its more inexperince than anything, but I swear that there are people who must be trolling with the amount of terrible advice they give.

So yeah, when a player has to wade through 5 threads with awful OPs before he finds one good one, why bother? Why doesn't player just go to elitist site and lurk if he's just concerned with making himself a better player. Why read pokegym when the advice is better on another site? Conversely, why compete with the 5-10 users on pokegym who like to post a lot and constantly give out their terrible advice? In the hopes that some beginner player will realize that my advice is a lot better and garbage poster is just trolling? Beginner player is gonna just say say "wow garbage player sure does like to post a lot, he must be a regular player and his advice must be way better than xcfrisco's tl;dr posts."

Seriously, with how awful public education is America, I'm surprised that a healthy number of our users have passable reading and writing comprehension skills, especially considering we let people ranging from ages 9-15 post here. I assume most kids dont take harder english classes until late high school, if that. These kids would never have any article they write published in any sort of credible publication, but they can post on pokegym all they want.

Anyone who has graduated high school and still posts poorly formed arguments and bad advice though, for shame

 

[Rogue Archetype]

Lets not even use the word adult. Lets use the terms Beginner and Advanced. Beginners can advice on there builds and more of a general idea where in the advance more advanced players can get hard honest feedback.

I think you'ree on the right track there.

Take the age component out, have a section that is earmarked for BEGINNERS (and, dare I say it, NON-tournament players) where they can ENJOY their learning process.

Doesn't ANYONE remember when you were new and you called THEME DECKS your "new deck"??

Remember how excited you got when a new THEME DECK was released?

I've learned through my own family how rushing into tournament play sucks the enjoyment out of the actual game.

Randomness, top decks, coin flips, special conditions and basic combos are FUN when you're new to the game.

Here's an antidote you'll all enjoy...

I once taught a classroom of 11th graders how to play Pokemon. The class was English 11 (in the summer) and we had 7 hour days (yes! They sat in English 11 for 7 straight hours each day). Well, I had been telling the class stories of taking my daughter to Nationals and they were curious about how POKEMON could even have a "National Championship."
I explained that it was a strategic card game; they made me promise to teach them to play someday.

Well, we had finished a unit and I told them we'd make the next Thursday "Pokemon Day." I had 100% attendance that day :smile:.

We started with how to play. I hooked the computer up to a big screen and showed them the tutorial right off of the main Pokemon.com website. I answered questions. I passed out theme decks, they played. They had a BLAST laughing at each other's whiffs on top decks, they rejoiced and bragged when they were able to grab an evolution card and evolve something, they would joke about the number of energy cards in their hands.

They played round-robin and everyone had just a good a chance of winning as the next guy. They truly had fun.

Well, they made me promise to have another Pokemon Day. I brought tournament decks and showed them how much control you can have over your draws. They lost the randomness and that ruined it for them. It's like whoever has a good first turn won. They hated that and it, kinda, ruined the thrill of Pokemon for them.

That's perspective for ya.

I think there's way too many people posting on the internet, aka pokegym, just for the sake of posting, and not really to make players better (which is what pokegym is all about right?). Like I said for every like 1 good post here that I find inciteful to make me a better player, or every 1 post I post to try to "make players better," I have to deal with at least 5 very very "inexperienced" posts or just plain out awful ones. I think its more inexperince than anything, but I swear that there are people who must be trolling with the amount of terrible advice they give.

Yep. That's gonna be an issue online on any site no matter what. We can curb it by modeling good responses

 

[Mach]

I still drop by occasionally, but I don't really post a lot anymore. This is because I still see a nice concept or strategy tip that I may have not thought about, but because as strategy discussions get deeper and deeper, criticism of details tend to get harsher and harsher.

With the moderation on 'Gym being as strict as it is, sometimes what one person may consider to be just batting away an unworkable idea comes off as flaming or a personal attack, and infractions/bans ensue. When I first noticed that this kind of thing was happening pretty often was when I first started migrating away from 'Gym.

To be honest though, this is only escalated to even higher levels because of relative stubbornness on both ends of the discussion, but I digress.

 

[Jaeger]

How about the incentive to make better players. Better players make better competition. Better competition makes for better events. Better events makes for bigger events. Bigger events make for bigger points and prizes. Somewhere in there should be more events too, I just don't know where.

That, I would think, would be compensation we would all like to see.

How many times can the same elite player kick the same n00bs to the curb before it gets boring?

Did you notice the Georgia Marathon? The attendance and the players that show up from 20 different states. For a City Championship?!?!?!?

Apparently people like good competition.

Seems like a good pay off.

People go to GA for the points, there is enough quality players there I don't think people really care if there is more of them.