Sentiments after Nationals

[NoPoke]

BRs are the first wrung on the tournament ladder in a way that a tournament at league never can be. I don't know why but I have a hard time pursuading my youngest league players to extend their play to a Saturday BR. Of course part of the problem is converting the parents. That first step onto the tournament ladder needs to be a gentle one.

 

[SD PokeMom]

why does all OP have to be about the 'pro' players? a new player shouldn't have the chance to shine at a BR?

'mom

 

[DarthPika]

Europe (APAC is Australia, Asian countries and such) is not one country and should not be treated as such. While the ratings system is for Europe, it is not fair to say that "Europe gets XX Nats invites and that is more than us".
Though I do agree that the US should have more invites, even though I tend to see more US players than European players at Worlds.

The day that Europe gets invites per country is the day when we get invites per state. >_>

Weee fun. This would be my second year running with an invite if that were the case... *sighs*

 

[baby mario]

I feel Battle Roads are the weakest link in all the tournament series. Their point values are so low that many players skip them. The prizes on the line aren't really that fantastic. They just take up time and product.

Good players skipping them means that new players have a chance to win.

The prizes may not be fantastic to you, but to a new player, getting a Victory Medal and 8 packs is brilliant. I was SO happy when I got my first one. Winning a League tourney is nowhere near as good as winning a legit Premier tourney, even a small one.

 

[meganium45]

The problem with Battle Roads in a developed area is that, for the most part, the new player's aren't winning.

Vince

 

[DarthPika]

why does all OP have to be about the 'pro' players? a new player shouldn't have the chance to shine at a BR?

'mom

You don't seem to understand. The new players WON'T shine at a BR. Why? Because good players will be there, and they'll still be crushed.

Also, why is it a bad thing for a n00b to get beaten to a pulp at his/her first tourney? My first tourney changed my perspective of deck building, and made me realize that I had some work to do before I could start winning.

Lets say some n00b wins a BR. Now he thinks he's a great player, and that nothing can stand in his way and that maybe he can even get to worlds. He then goes to a larger tourney and gets crushed. It would be better if he had never lucksacked into that first win, as he would have learned far more by losing.

Think about that one point for a second. When do you learn more? When everything goes as planed, or when you lose? I've found that when everything goes as planed, all that really shows is that I was right about my deck being good. Now if I lose, that makes me stop, go back, and take a good look at my deck to try to determine why I lost. IMO you learn a heck of a lot more when you lose.

 

[baby mario]

Not all new players do go to big tourneys.

BRs give them a local tourney that they can do without travelling. For a lot of players that is all they want to do.

 

[NoPoke]

The problem with Battle Roads in a developed area is that, for the most part, the new player's aren't winning.

Vince

I know what you are saying, but I'm not sure I'd call that a problem, more a symtom of success. The last thing I'd want in a developing area is to make it worse for the new players.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

Not all new players do go to big tourneys.

BRs give them a local tourney that they can do without travelling. For a lot of players that is all they want to do.

I've definately seen this. Many never get infected by the illness that makes you want to go to every tournament no matter how far away.

 

[DarthPika]

Not all new players do go to big tourneys.

BRs give them a local tourney that they can do without travelling. For a lot of players that is all they want to do.

How will they shine when they get crushed anyway? You do realize that good players will be there to.

 

[Prime]

Before I start commented on these, please let me explain my viewpoint.

I am NOT a pro player. Ask any pro player, and they will give you the same answer. Please don't associate my views and opinions with those of pro players, but pro player may agree with my views.

why does all OP have to be about the 'pro' players? a new player shouldn't have the chance to shine at a BR?

'mom

What does a new player achieve from 'shining' at a BR? They feel good for a day, and go back to real life pokemon league every weekend.

Also, there is usually a better player or two there. So those new players usually don't get to shine if there are one or two experienced players there. Even in younger age groups, this is true.

From what I've seen, new players don't get to shine much at BRs because there are regulars there. Not a lot of them, but some; enough to ruin the new player's chances of doing well.

Good players skipping them means that new players have a chance to win.

There are usually a handful of experienced players at battle roads, meaning new players usually don't get to win many of these events.

At many battle roads, the new players are the small minority, and have absolutely no chance to do well when surrounded by experienced players. At those tournaments, new players get absolutely nothing out of it.

The prizes may not be fantastic to you, but to a new player, getting a Victory Medal and 8 packs is brilliant. I was SO happy when I got my first one. Winning a League tourney is nowhere near as good as winning a legit Premier tourney, even a small one.

Again, I'm not a pro player. I'm not saying the prizes aren't interesting. Being realistic, the new player most likely won't win that Victory medal unless they have a lot of experienced friends building their deck, and their age group is very slim. In masters, I haven't noticed many new players win battle roads when they come around.

I mentioned that the league tournament would be prize supported, and I meant that TPCi would send off promos to hand out to league tournament winners only, and that normal tournaments give away packs anyways. So, winning a prize-supported league tournament would net a new player roughly the same stuff.

The problem with Battle Roads in a developed area is that, for the most part, the new player's aren't winning.

Vince

EXACTLY. I don't want to hate this event, but I don't see it meeting it's goals. The new players aren't winning them right and left and getting excited about the game and traveling and stuff.

A handful of experienced players are coming into many of these and taking the prizes while the new players rejoice about how it was interesting to play in a premier event but wishing that they would have won something.

No premier event, minus pre-releases, are going to allow new players to clean up and reap most of the rewards. It's too easy for an experienced player to beat new players and too often new players leave without anything at these events.

I don't want to hate this event, but again, I don't see it meeting it's goals. I see it has the weakest link in the tournament series. Many players don't even give it a thought half the time, and that isn't good for the game. Why not just turn it into TPCi-supported official league tournaments? It would produce, for the most part, the same end effect, only it would use up a lot less of TPCi's budget.

 

[baby mario]

How will they shine when they get crushed anyway? You do realize that good players will be there to.

Well then, if the BRs are attracting the good players, there can't be much wrong with them.

What do you want? MORE prizes/points for crushing new players at a local tourney?

It seems that people want it both ways. Either BRs are too small and pathetic for good players to attend, OR they are not helping new players cos good players turn up and crush them.

It's one or the other, not both.

 

[DarthPika]

TBH I would love to see BR's done away with, maybe even CC's and just give use more States/Regs sized events.

The one BIG problem I have with CC's, is the lack of any restraint on how many you can attend. They put a cap on how many states one can attend to make things more fair for the western states, which is a good thing. However, ther'es a flip side to that, in the respect that now they have the advantage with FAR more CC's than most of the eastern states.

IDK, put a cap on the amount of CC's people can play? It's a little silly when some people can attend 20+ CC's and I can only get to maybe 4 or 5 simply due to where we live.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

Well then, if the BRs are attracting the good players, there can't be much wrong with them.

What do you want? MORE prizes/points for crushing new players at a local tourney?

It seems that people want it both ways. Either BRs are too small and pathetic for good players to attend, OR they are not helping new players cos good players turn up and crush them.

It's one or the other, not both.

Trust me, they really don't attract the good players. Why do good players play in them? IMO it's because many good players love playing the game, and will show up anyway, even more so if its close by. I hate the stupid things, but I go anyway, mostly just because there's NOTHING to do pokemon wise for months before CC's start it I skip BR's.

 

[baby mario]

Trust me, they really don't attract the good players. Why do good players play in them? IMO it's because many good players love playing the game, and will show up anyway, even more so if its close by. I hate the stupid things, but I go anyway, mostly just because there's NOTHING to do pokemon wise for months before CC's start it I skip BR's.

Isn't that the BEST reason to go to a Pokemon tourney?

I know it's why I go.

 

[Prime]

DarthPika: But that has always been a problem with the game. I remember speaking on how that wasn't fair when RockLock was in the format.

Experienced players go to Battle Roads because they are the only events going on. I guarantee you that if a bigger tournament like States were going on, they would go to States over Battle Roads.

You want a tournament where a new player can shine, then go to a pre-release tournament. Other than that, there will be no tournaments where a new player can shine.

I think some people like BRs because people aren't as competitive at them and some of the experienced players have a better chance at winning, but I don't know if that really helps them. Players need to get better to win. Giving them opportunities to win without getting better doesn't improve their skill. It just massages it, and makes them feel better about themself, maybe setting them up for a big disappointment when they go to bigger tournaments and don't do as well.

 

[DarthPika]

The problem is, really, BR's aren't that much fun. I would much rather just have more larger tourneys.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

I think some people like BRs because people aren't as competitive at them and some of the experienced players have a better chance at winning, but I don't know if that really helps them. Players need to get better to win. Giving them opportunities to win without getting better doesn't improve their skill. It just massages it, and makes them feel better about themself, maybe setting them up for a big disappointment when they go to bigger tournaments and don't do as well.

That's EXACTLY how I feel about BRs.

 

[NoPoke]

you improve by being encouraged not by being crushed. There are always going to be new players entering the game. Thus there is going to be a need for an entry level tournament. BRs do serve a valuable purpose as that first step even if they are of limited appeal to experienced players. Just because they are of limited appeal to the more experienced players is no reason to change or scrap them.

I hope that everyone who comes to my BRs enjoys the event, from first place to last.

 

[DarthPika]

you improve by being encouraged not by being crushed. There are always going to be new players entering the game. Thus there is going to be a need for an entry level tournament. BRs do serve a valuable purpose as that first step even if they are of limited appeal to experienced players. Just because they are of limited appeal to the more experienced players is no reason to change or scrap them.

FYI, at least in my area, you're far more likely to get the pulp beaten out of you at a BR than a larger tourney like a CC or States. BR's may be "smaller" but the locals still show up, but since there are less players, the odds of playing against a good player are far greater than the larger tourney where there will be more "below average" players.

 

[Prime]

you improve by being encouraged not by being crushed. There are always going to be new players entering the game. Thus there is going to be a need for an entry level tournament. BRs do serve a valuable purpose as that first step even if they are of limited appeal to experienced players. Just because they are of limited appeal to the more experienced players is no reason to change or scrap them.

I hope that everyone who comes to my BRs enjoys the event, from first place to last.

I don't disagree that there is a need for an entry level event.

I agree that there is a need for an entry level event. I just don't feel Battle Roads aren't needed for that. I feel if TPCi sent out a pack of promos to each league, like WINNER-stamped promos, to give away in league tournaments, it would be a better entry-level event than Battle Roads.

Like DarthPika said, this event won't let new player shine. If that is the goal, then this event fails at it. I feel this event fails at meeting many of it's goals and doesn't contribute much to the overall tournament scene. TPCi-sponsored league events would contribute more to a local scene than 2 battle roads in a year.

I know Magic: The Gathering has events like 'Friday Night Magic' that are tournaments where promos sponsored by WotC are given out as prizes (i think, correct me if I am wrong). Events like these get players excited in the area, but don't pull much funds from the company as they are just shipping out a few promos here and there.

Those funds can then be used in events like Stadium Challenges.

I feel leagues need a boost in sponsoring, and battle roads need to be removed all together.

 

[baby mario]

I hope that everyone who comes to my BRs enjoys the event, from first place to last.

Always, win or lose :thumb:

That's the whole point . . . just go to tourneys and enjoy playing Pokemon. If it isn't 'big' enough for you to bother with then . . . don't bother. If you don't enjoy playing the game for its own sake, then what's the point?

 

[Prime]

Always, win or lose :thumb:

That's the whole point . . . just go to tourneys and enjoy playing Pokemon. If it isn't 'big' enough for you to bother with then . . . don't bother. If you don't enjoy playing the game for its own sake, then what's the point?

I am not condemning the tournament because of it's size. I am condemning it because I feel it hasn't met it's goals.

You can go to league, and participate in league tournaments and enjoy playing Pokemon. Why do you need Battle Roads?

They are one-day events, with very little on the line, and most people walk away with no different in cards, in points, in anything.

I enjoy playing the game for its own sake. I want to see league tournaments more official supported by TPCi.

I don't see any purpose in battle roads. So do many other players. I am sure there many other players that do enjoy battle roads.

But we have to be realistic and really ask ourselves if battle roads are contributing anything to the overall game where regular sponsored league tournaments would not.

I don't think so.