Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Sentiments after Nationals

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More support for League tourneys would be good too, but I wouldn't want to lose BRs.

I like them cos they get more people than League and it's nice to see my friends from other places at BRs. Also, I know that the people at my League (the ones that NEVER travel to other tourneys) love to play in them too.
 
around here, new players dont win BRs. this is the basis of how BRs went in NJ and PA for seniors
i won 2. i placed 2nd at 2 Top 10 NJ
Justin B won 1 i think and 1 2nd Top 10 NJ
Michael Diaz won 2 and 2nd at 1 Top 10 NJ
im pretty sure Jason A won 1. Top 10 NJ
Sam G placed 2nd once. Top 10 NJ
Isiaiah R won 2 and got 2nd at 1. #2 DE (only 3 players in DE, but hes pretty good)
Dylan B won 1 4th in the world Top 10 NJ
Toby Natale placed 2nd once Top 15 NJ
so yeh pretty much only top players placed at BRs here. still, i wouldn't want BRs to go away. once some experienced Senior players that took some BRs like me move up to masters, newer players can have thier chance in seniors. unlike GengarPwns who just picks up a gengar deck and wins Nats. lol I know i enjoy Brs, i enjoyed them more when they were 8K, but whatrya gonna do?
 
I agree that there is a need for an entry level event. I just don't feel Battle Roads aren't needed for that. I feel if TPCi sent out a pack of promos to each league, like WINNER-stamped promos, to give away in league tournaments, it would be a better entry-level event than Battle Roads.
Not all leagues run tournaments. While some leagues are very structured, other leagues are too casual to support a tournament.

By definition, league tournaments are not a suppliment to an entry level tournament. League support is not to be used to reward sanctioned tournaments. POP wants to make sure there is a clear border between league and tournament, and that players know what it is. Sanctioning a tournament at league means it goes not get any POP packs or other league support from the LL. It has to be unsanctioned. If it is unsanctioned, that opens the door to allowing some of the more non-standard formats, which defeats the purpose of making it entry-level to the premier events.

At the risk of once again agreeing with SD PokeMom, I think we have forgotten what a BR is supposed to be. Not only is it supposed to be entry-level, but it is supposed to be a small event--the smallest of the Premier events. This means that players are not supposed to travel a long way to go to them. Players are not supposed to be attracted by the potential for a huge rating boost.

BR K-Value not high enough for you to want to travel to it? Good. It's not supposed to be.

IDK, put a cap on the amount of CC's people can play? It's a little silly when some people can attend 20+ CC's and I can only get to maybe 4 or 5 simply due to where we live.
In the interest of disclosure, perhaps point out that you are one of those who can attend a significant number of CCs rather than a smaller number :rolleyes:
 
What is the purpose of battle roads?

Some people say they are Entry-Level events for new players.

But I ask, what does that really mean? Entry-Level...for new players.

Every tournament is open to the public, other than Worlds. Players can 'enter' into the tournament series at any point. Are Entry-level tournaments easier on the new players? Not really. Like many people have posted so far, new players still often don't do that well at battle roads. So what is the difference between entering in at a Battle Roads and entering in a Cities? Not much of one.

For the new players...what does that mean? There will only be new players at the event? That isn't true. Much of the attendance at battle roads are from people that have traveled outside of their city, even if just an hour or two in one direction. Every battle road has plenty of experienced (non-new) players. So the tournament isn't just for new players.

So what are battle roads if they aren't 'just for new players' and aren't tournaments where new players can do well in?

What purpose do they serve if other events can serve the same purpose?

To me, the game doesn't need City Championships AND Battle Roads. Combine them, if you must.

I feel League tournaments could, one day, replace battle roads events. At the moment, league tournaments are not meant to do that but that doesn't mean that in the future their purpose will not change.

Some people say that 'you're not supposed to travel' to a battle road. So the event is really only for those in that close area. How is that different than pokemon league, then?

I don't see why Pokemon can't have a separate event along side Pokemon League that is like battle roads. I feel this would be better for the game than battle roads would be.

Think about it. Every month, your area has a sanctioned pokemon tournament. The winner gets a WINNER-stamped promo card, and possibly a pack or two (depending on if there is a small fee or not). Don't even associate it with Pokemon league. Call it, BattleZones (to pull from an old WotC event). Not only would this keep areas competitive year round, but it would give players a real event to play in every month and not just the 2-3 times a year when a Battle Road or Cities is in their area (IF there are some in their area).

I think we all need to be open to possibilities, and different ideas. We've had Battle Roads for 2 years now, and I have experience many of them. After 2 years, I don't feel Battle Roads are really needed for the Game. I feel other events can take their place and fullfill the same goals.

A little open mindedness is all I am asking for.
 
I don't agree with cutting Battle Roads at all! I do think there should be less competitive events in the tournament series. Yeah, I suppose you could tone down some of them, maybe remove Fall or Spring for other, bigger events, but I wouldn't remove them completely.

State Championships are where the cut should come from. I have not really understood State's place in the tournament series in the 5 years it has been going on. It doesn't "feed" any event. It offers a $300 travel allowance for the winner to Nationals and that's it. It doesn't offer invites or any really cool prizes. It doesn't offer scholarship. Its numbers have grown so much that it really has no place in the event series. The numbers are basically the same as Regionals and the prizes are much less. And this is coming from someone who has won both of these events.
 
Yeah, to hit up on the original concerns,

The whole system does need a revamp. Well, that's not entirely true. Cities are fine. Everything else is either (A) useless, or (B) has a stupidly large number of people involved all playing for very few prizes/ invites.

TBH, I had no problems with BR's until Prime pointed out many of their flaws. In my area, the same players consistantly win BRs, and other little tournaments (our league holds tournaments fairly often, and many offer prizes like a full box). Even pre releases are dominated by the seasoned players (like Me :D). New players really don't have much going for them.

Also, a concern I've been having lately is that I have yet to see any new blood being drawn to the tournament scene. Memphis, TN has had a pretty consitant player base (around 70) for a couple of years now. As time goes on, all the little kids age up. Masters has like 20-25 players at our local BR, while Jrs. have sometimes 8 or less. This is rediculous! Jrs. used to be huge in our area? Why are they dying off? We need some way to cycle in new players. Perhaps if BR's were better advertised?

What I'm thinking is that along with all the Stadium Challenges and stuff (everything Vince, Vergel, and Chad have said, I double), there needs to be a tournament that is actually focused on the new players. JAA's brought like a bajillion kids into our league. So, lets say we make something similar to a JAA, that goes on for 5-6 hours, running little 8 man tournaments only for new walk ins (similar to the way pick up tournaments were run at Nat's [which I also dominated]). They could all be given theme decks to use, which could then be returned. They win? They get a few packs.

Take all the BR's away, replace them with 20 or so JAA like things (placed in strategic locations for dwindelling player bases), and Bring in more invites via larger scale tournaments such as Stadium Challenges.

There, new players are happy. Veterans are happy.
 
Also, why is it a bad thing for a n00b to get beaten to a pulp at his/her first tourney? My first tourney changed my perspective of deck building, and made me realize that I had some work to do before I could start winning.

Lets say some n00b wins a BR. Now he thinks he's a great player, and that nothing can stand in his way and that maybe he can even get to worlds. He then goes to a larger tourney and gets crushed. It would be better if he had never lucksacked into that first win, as he would have learned far more by losing.

Learning isn't always the most important thing. Let's say said noob goes 1-5 at States instead. Is a new player, probably 8-12 years old, going to immediately look through his deck and realize that maybe Potion isn't the best card ever? Most likely not. I'd wager that the average noob would probably not to play in the big scary tournaments ever again, and just play at league, most likely eventually quitting.

So, what happens if that noob instead wins a small Battle Road? Yes, he'll think he's a great player. People play games that they're good at, Michael. The majority of people give up on games that they're bad at. That noob would get 8 packs, a cool-looking shiny card, and would think that he was good enough to win States, Regionals, etc. Sure, he'd lose once he actually got there, but then he would at least play in those tournaments, and would probably find an excuse for losing. With all the complaints about donks, lucky flips, bad matchups, etc, how could anyone expect otherwise? That noob would keep thinking that he was a good player, keep playing in tournaments, and eventually not be such a noob anymore.

So, is it really bad for someone to think that they did well, even if it's not entirely true?
 
I feel that I have to add in a little of my personal experience.

Back in the day, way back when STS modified was Gym Heroes and Gym Challenge stuff, I first started attending local tourneys. I was 'pretty good' at pokemon, being nigh undefeated with my friend on my block. But going to acutal tourneys and league changed that. Needless to say I got crushed. Big time. But I learned good deckbuilding, like playing multiples of cards and stuff like that. I eventually got to the point where I T4'd a tourney before the store shut down. Whereas other players might have given up, like one of my friends and my brother after both had come with me, I was driven to be better by my experiences of being beaten so badly.

Now, how that relates to BRs and this topic.

Yes, BRs are much smaller events, and if there are good players there, they generally rise to the top. But, I still feel that it's a good entry level event into competitive play. Sure, you might get crushed pretty well by the "good crowd" but its less competitive than Cities, so there is much less drive to win, and its more of a casual event IMO. They might even be a good gauge as to whether one would like to continue playing the game in a competitive sense.

I concur with some of the above proposed ideas though, bringing back Stadium Challenges would definitely be awesome.
 
i'm getting a 'dog in the manger' attitude from these posts: battle roads suck, the prizes suck, the K-value sucks, but you (general 'you') STILL go, even though it's 'not worth' the time/trouble/gas money?

you don't have a single good thing to say about the event but you still want to win it, rather than leaving the entry-level OP event to the entry-level player? really?

jmho
'mom
 
Perhaps for the entry level players, increasing support for league is the right approach. I really enjoyed the premier trainer idea during the sevii islands league cycle, how it actually rewarded quality of play, rather than quantity.
 
One thing that I'd like to point out about BRs is that, while the best players of the area may be the ones to eventually win the Victory Medal, the fact that good players won't drive 2-3 hours for a Battle Roads does help ease new players into the tournament scene by giving them the chance to play against 1) great players with great strategies but often 'just for fun' test decks, 2) other entry level players, and 3) the various mid-level players that love the game enough to keep playing but don't feel good enough to travel 2-3 hours to the nearest States or Regionals. That means they have a fighting chance at going 3-1, 3-2, or even 4-1 at one of their first tournaments. While that's probably not enough to win prizes, it's close enough to winning something to get the new players excited about it. Plus, the ability to interact with the 'pro' players that do show up is great for those new players who then feel like a real part of the Pokémon community, rather than just a noob who showed up where he/she doesn't belong. A little league tournament just doesn't do the same thing. Certainly not when the 'pro' players feel like league play is beneath them.
 
What I'm thinking is that along with all the Stadium Challenges and stuff (everything Vince, Vergel, and Chad have said, I double), there needs to be a tournament that is actually focused on the new players. JAA's brought like a bajillion kids into our league. So, lets say we make something similar to a JAA, that goes on for 5-6 hours, running little 8 man tournaments only for new walk ins (similar to the way pick up tournaments were run at Nat's [which I also dominated]). They could all be given theme decks to use, which could then be returned. They win? They get a few packs.

Take all the BR's away, replace them with 20 or so JAA like things (placed in strategic locations for dwindelling player bases), and Bring in more invites via larger scale tournaments such as Stadium Challenges.

There, new players are happy. Veterans are happy.

Very nice suggestion.

I would also like to see an event just for new players.

JAA is what again? I know of Pokemon Rocks America, but I don't remember a JAA. Does it stand for Journey Across America or something?

If Battle Roads are really for new players, then they need to be held more than twice a year. Twice a year isn't going to draw in new players consistently throughout the year.

you don't have a single good thing to say about the event but you still want to win it, rather than leaving the entry-level OP event to the entry-level player? really?

jmho
'mom

Most entry-level players, aka new players, are going to lose to any experienced players. Are we as players supposed to bow out of these events when they come to our area just because they are meant for new players?

I still haven't won a single tournament, minus a CC that was never reported, so why can't I still play in the event?

Many players wouldn't 'bow out' to let entry-level players win an event. Why is that a wrong thing? Why do we have to allow new players to win a tournament when nobody let us win a tournament when we were new?

What will new players gain from the better players not playing? They will get destroyed the next time they play.

Battle Roads serve no purpose in my opinion. They are twice a year, for an entry-level tournament where experienced players win all of them. Very little k-value, so you have to go to 7-10 of them to really make a dent in your quest for an invite, and nobody really plays the promo card given out to winners.

Why even have a k-value on a tournament meant just for new players?

Swap out Victory Medal for an actual good card, like a Lv.X-bordered Cynthia's Feelings or something.

Modify the tournament in some way that it actually serves some use, because right now I don't feel it serves a purpose that is special to just it.

edit:

I also feel that many bigger tournaments should have a separate area just to learn the game. We have so many events throughout the year, and only 2-3 of them are new player friendly. Heck, go to a Battle Road, and you won't find an area to learn the game. You'll be expected to learn the game.

The game needs a learning station at every championship tournament in my opinion. In my short history judging for this game, 2-3 years now, I've encountered a few new players at Pre-Releases and City Championships that have had no idea how to play the game. Some of these people come from areas where there is no Pokemon League, or they know of none in their area. These people need a place where they can learn how to play the game that day. We can't expect them to go home, open up the rulebook and learn the game on their own.

Look at Japanese tournaments. I've seen pictures of many. Many of their tournaments have 3 areas. A learning area, a free play area, and a tournament area. I think this is a great structure. Regardless of who you are, there is an area just for you. If you know NOTHING about the game, you can go learn how to play it in the learning area. If you know how to play, but really just started, the free play area is better for you. If you've been playing for a while and think you have what it takes to do well, the tournament area is for you.

At our tournaments, we have 1 zone, the tournament zone. If you don't know how to play, sorry, go find a league, or a judge will sit with you the entire tournament helping you (which really is a waste of resources, judge being resources). If you have just played a little bit, you will get destroyed in regular battle with experienced players. Too many players walk away with a bad idea of the game because they get destroyed at a tournament. Our tournaments only cater to the experienced players, and yet we call tournaments like Battle Roads entry-level?

Battle Roads aren't entry-level. You have to know how to play. You have to have a complete deck of legal modified cards. Even then, you will most likely lose all your games to the experienced players in your area or those that do travel to multiple battle roads. My friend KingGengar went to 7 battle roads this spring. The TN/NC/SC area has some FANTASTIC PTOs that put on many events throught the year. To think that any of the Battle Roads would be empty of experienced players is a ridiculous thought.

The game is growing. Every year it grows. What tournaments we had 6 years ago might not be good now. We've seen that with the removal of Gym and Stadium Challenges. I think it might be time for a change once more.
 
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i guess i wasn't clear enough in my previous post: if BRs suck so much, if the prizes aren't worth the gas money/drivetime, if the points earned in a K=4 event are all but worthless...then why are the 'pro' players even bothering to play in them?

OP has stated that this is an entry level OP event:
The Battle Road series is designed to provide players with small, entry-level events on a local scale.
the one-step-up-from-league competition is lame, the prizes are lame...so why play? just because it's there? because you can't resist crushing the n00bs, showing them how great a player you are? even though you don't want the prizes, the points are minimal...

to you as an experienced player, the event series sucks, so they should be done away with and prize support transferred to the 'big' events?
REALLY?

THAT is why i made the 'dog in the manger' comment: since you don't see the value in the event for YOU, you don't want it for anyone else who may value it?

'mom
 
BRs serve a different purpose. They aren't aimed at hardcore tournament players. It is a dangerous practice to ignore your beginners/new players.

As a new player agree with this entirely. I have been to one BR and one pre-release tournament. Both didn't involve more than a 15 minute drive from my house, which was great. At this point in my life, due to other commitments, any tournament that was out of town would be unavailable to me.

We did have higher ranking players drive in form other cities to attend and I have no problem with that. They did, of course, win the tournament (in each Division). For me, at this stage, it was just fun being able to play in a tournament, regardless of how well I did.

My 7 year old son, who lost all of his games, was quite disheartened. When the tournament judge noticed that, he took him aside and explained how much longer the others in the Junior Division had been playing. As a consolation, he actually gave him a rare Pokemon, from his own set of extras, for trying his best. It was a wonderful gesture that I am very thankful for.

I guess one problem is, how do you make it so that BR appeal to newcomers without excluding the more experienced players.
 
i guess i wasn't clear enough in my previous post: if BRs suck so much, if the prizes aren't worth the gas money/drivetime, if the points earned in a K=4 event are all but worthless...then why are the 'pro' players even bothering to play in them?

OP has stated that this is an entry level OP event: the one-step-up-from-league competition is lame, the prizes are lame...so why play? just because it's there? because you can't resist crushing the n00bs, showing them how great a player you are? even though you don't want the prizes, the points are minimal...

to you as an experienced player, the event series sucks, so they should be done away with and prize support transferred to the 'big' events?
REALLY?

THAT is why i made the 'dog in the manger' comment: since you don't see the value in the event for YOU, you don't want it for anyone else who may value it?

'mom

Pro players go to BRs because it beats playtesting. Trying out the new cards at two crucial moments in the season. The beginning of the year, when there has been a format change (except this year) and near the end of the year before the two biggest tournaments in the year, Nats and Worlds. Besides League is for the new players, I honestly don't think any pro player goes to league unless it's less then 15 minutes away. Even then some won't go, I know I don't when I don't have time. For Premier tournaments I will MAKE time to go to them.
 
In WA, the top players did sit out Spring BRs and I think there were a lot of winners that hadn't won as much at least in the masters level.
 
In WA, the top players did sit out Spring BRs and I think there were a lot of winners that hadn't won as much at least in the masters level.

Patrick came and kicked everyone's fannies (for the most part) in Masters. One of our top juniors didn't play most BRs because he only got a fraction of a point for each win. He did make it into Worlds with an ranking invite, so we're all happy for him... especially since this is his first season playing.

As for the people calling them(selves) "Pros"... No one is getting paid to play, and there is no Pokemon "Pro-circuit". A Professional is someone that gets paid for their services (or abilities). Scholarships and the like are nice, but they don't put bread on the table. "Top" players is a much more accurate description. ^_^
 
Regarding Battle Roads I also have to point out that new players aren’t going to magically start playing during the relatively short time that BRs are put on. It’s statistically more likely that they will find out about and try OP at some other time of the year. In my case my first event was a CC. For other’s that I’ve heard about NATIONALS was their first OP event. You can’t assume that because an event may be aimed at new players that they will actually know about it and show up there as their intro.
 
i guess i wasn't clear enough in my previous post: if BRs suck so much, if the prizes aren't worth the gas money/drivetime, if the points earned in a K=4 event are all but worthless...then why are the 'pro' players even bothering to play in them?

Because they are the only events going on and in many player's opinion, a small tournament is better than no tournament. Yes, it is that simple.

OP has stated that this is an entry level OP event: the one-step-up-from-league competition is lame, the prizes are lame...so why play? just because it's there? because you can't resist crushing the n00bs, showing them how great a player you are? even though you don't want the prizes, the points are minimal...

Experienced players don't attend BRs to demolish new players, and I am appalled you would even think that. They attend the event because they love the game and they love to play competitively, regardless of the size of the event.

to you as an experienced player, the event series sucks, so they should be done away with and prize support transferred to the 'big' events?
REALLY?

I don't care if the event isn't made for me. That isn't what concerns me. What concerns me is that the audience that this event is made for is gaining nothing from participating in these events.

A new player plays in a battle road, and loses all their games because of the experienced players there. They earn no packs, no cards, no prizes whatsoever. They walk out of the tournament with nothing but happy thoughts possibly. Doesn't this rub you the wrong way? A tournament made for new players and yet new players aren't shining in them?

THAT is why i made the 'dog in the manger' comment: since you don't see the value in the event for YOU, you don't want it for anyone else who may value it?

'mom

I think your putting a lot of words in players' mouths that at least I know I am not saying.

Not everyone is against BRs because of greed or another of the deadly sins.
 
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