Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Shuffling Your Opponent's Deck

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Vegeta ss4 said:
So Jackal, what you are saying is if I am worrying about having my opponent damage my sleeves I shouldn't use the nice ones?

Does that make sense to you? Many love the look of the cool sleeves. So we should NOT buy the good sleeves because we have to factor in our opponent damaging them because they have the right to shuffle my deck.
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Actually, losjackal's point makes a lot of sense. When you go to a premier tournament, you know that it is inevitable that you would need to do a lot of shuffling all day. If you are an experienced player, you would also know the rule that your opponent is allowed to shuffle your deck after you shuffle. If you're going to use expensive sleeves for premier tournaments, you are taking a risk that some of your sleeves might be damaged in the process. It's not your opponent's fault that he/she wants to shuffle your deck; rather, it's his/her right to shuffle.

Think of it this way. I have a nice suede jacket that costs $200. I'm going out to a club tonight, so I want to show off my nice jacket. However, I also know that at a club, it will be (1) really hot and humid, (2) difficult to see, and (3) full of drunk people. Although I want to wear my nice jacket, I know that wearing it to the club may not be the best idea. It could get drinks spilled all over it or even get lost in coat check. If I don't want to damage my nice jacket, I shouldn't wear it to the club.

Similarly, if you don't want to damage your nice sleeves, don't bring them to a large tournament. It's common sense.

Obviously, accidentally or purposely revealing cards from your opponent's deck when shuffling is a different issue, and I could see how that could be defined as "cheating." However, suggesting that the rules of the game should be altered just so some people can show off their expensive sleeves is beyond ridiculous.

Many love the look of the cool sleeves. So we should NOT bring the good sleeves to large tournaments because we have to factor in our opponent damaging them because they have the right to shuffle my deck.
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Vegeta ss4 said:
So Jackal, what you are saying is if I am worrying about having my opponent damage my sleeves I shouldn't use the nice ones?

Does that make sense to you? Many love the look of the cool sleeves. So we should NOT buy the good sleeves because we have to factor in our opponent damaging them because they have the right to shuffle my deck.

Pokemon needs to fix this issue, shouldn't be allowed. If you feel your opponent is cheating, its called cut or have a judge shuffle it.

Once again, I'm going to make the point that shuffling your opponents deck is cheating. Most people that shuffle flip the cards to their side, thus allowing them to see the deck. I guess you could try and make the point of SotG would playy here in which we should assume you wouldn't look at the deck, but it works the other way in lack of trust off the opponent whom you are shuffling his deck.

Let's fix this, cut and cut only. Now, I have had people shuffle cut my deck in tournies, but they asked if they could and asked how id want them to shuffle to protect my Gold Pikachu sleeves.
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If you want to protect you sleeves then I would recommend double sleeving (placing the initial sleeve into a penny sleeve). I've been double sleeving my Japanese sleeves for a few years, and while a little more bulky it isn't to bad. You keep your sleeves in excellent condition and all you have to do in preparation for high caliber events is whip out some more and replace the penny sleeves. However I've heard that some Judges don't like them, so you might want to double check to see if it's fine by them first.
 
The following quote from the tournament rule is all that's needed to answer this question.

Tournament Rules said:
20. Shuffling
Each player’s deck is expected to be fully randomized at the start of each game and during the game, as card effects require. In order to achieve randomness, players are allowed to riffle, pile, or otherwise shuffle their decks until they are satisfied that the deck is random. Randomization must be done in the presence of the player’s opponent and must be done in a reasonable amount of time. Care should be taken to assure that the cards in the deck are not harmed or revealed during the shuffle.
After the shuffle, the deck must be offered to the player’s opponent to be cut once. Cutting the deck consists of creating two separate stacks of cards by removing a portion of the top of the deck, and then placing it under the remaining portion. Players should take care to not reveal any of their opponent’s cards while cutting. Cutting into more than two stacks is considered a shuffle.
Instead of cutting, the opponent may choose to shuffle the deck. This shuffle should be brief, and when it concludes, the deck’s owner is allowed to cut the deck once as described above. Players should take
care when shuffling an opponent’s deck, as the cards in that deck are not the shuffling player’s property. At this point, the deck should be sufficiently randomized to both players’ satisfaction.
If either player still does not feel that either deck is sufficiently randomized, or if a player wishes to not offer his or her deck to an opponent for randomization, a judge must be called over to shuffle the deck(s) in question. No player is allowed to shuffle or cut after the judge’s shuffle.
Players engaging in questionable shuffling methods may be subject to the Unsporting Conduct section of the Penalty Guidelines. Players are strongly encouraged to shuffle their opponent’s deck at Premier Events.
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And threads like this are exactly why no one takes 99% of these discussions seriously...

"That shouldn't be the rule because I don't want it to be!!!!!"

If you honestly cannot understand why an opponent would want to (and be completely allowed to) randomize your deck, you probably shouldn't be playing card games.
 
Ok, two things . . .

1. The right to shuffle an opponent's deck will always trump the right to keep expensive sleeves nice (duh). I use (fairly) expensive sleeves myself sometimes, but it is always with the understanding that they are essentially disposable items. If they get messed up . . . eh, I knew it was a possibility.

2. A little bit of consideration and politeness goes a long way.
 
The Shuffle

I did an experiment the other day. I took 60 pokemon cards and marked them 1 through 60. I shuffled a good amount and examined the deck - I was shocked to see how little they had changed and how clumped they were. (I'd suggest everyone try this sometime - it's very interesting)

I then re-ordered and 6-piled. Then I proceeded to shuffle. The difference was amazing!

Point being - I do not trust shuffling as much as I trust 6-piling.


As for me, I like giving my opponent's deck a little shuffle...
 
Personally I prefer my opponent to not touch my cards at all... I've seen how some of even the top players handle their cards and I'd prefer for them not to touch them. It's not as if I'm cheating or anything (although, in some scenarios this isn't the case) but for the value and protection of my own cards, I just prefer people to shuffle my cards for the sake of the card and sleeve value. There are always alternatives to shuffling with the same effect as the specific type of shuffling you'd like to shuffle with.
 
It's more amusing to me when someone shuffles my deck....There's a player at my league who does this, and it seems a bit ridiculous most of the time considering:

A) I run the league, I have more to lose than anyone if I stacked my deck
B) I don't have to stack my deck to win
C) What do you accomplish with a shuffle over a cut? My deck is randomized after both, so why waste both of our time.

The ONLY time I can see shuffling your opponents deck are when they literally do 1-2 mash shuffles which is insufficient. If you just watch me shuffle for 20-30 seconds, don't take another 15-25 to shuffle them again. I WILL cut it and continue my turn.

The best remedy to an opponent shuffling your deck is shuffle theirs EVERY time and keep a prize lead. They'll cut it out when they see they are going to lose on time because they're more concerned with shuffling your deck.
 
Of the grand total of two people to shuffle my deck in a tourney, I've asked them to not riffle/slide/whateveritscalled. They piled or bridged as I asked, and my sleves were undamaged. If you ask politely to have your deck shuffled in an unharmful way, most opponent's won't object. Also, I watch my opponent shuffle, and I shuffle their way so as not to make them mad about sleeves. (of course I do it slightly differently or pile before to ensure randomness).
 
Austino said:
It's more amusing to me when someone shuffles my deck....There's a player at my league who does this, and it seems a bit ridiculous most of the time considering:

A) I run the league, I have more to lose than anyone if I stacked my deck
B) I don't have to stack my deck to win
C) What do you accomplish with a shuffle over a cut? My deck is randomized after both, so why waste both of our time.

The ONLY time I can see shuffling your opponents deck are when they literally do 1-2 mash shuffles which is insufficient. If you just watch me shuffle for 20-30 seconds, don't take another 15-25 to shuffle them again. I WILL cut it and continue my turn.

The best remedy to an opponent shuffling your deck is shuffle theirs EVERY time and keep a prize lead. They'll cut it out when they see they are going to lose on time because they're more concerned with shuffling your deck.
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This is an unfair view of it. Your opponent doesn't do it to eat up time, (and it isn't like it takes forever anyway) they do it because its a good habit to keep up as it makes cheating harder, and I'm not saying that everyone's a cheater, but you never know who could be a cheater, and therefore it's a good way to make sure your never caught off guard. It's a safeguard. If you feel differently about it, then that's fine. Shuffle your opponent's deck out of spite, you're well with in your rights to do so.
 
TheRolesWePlay said:
This is an unfair view of it. Your opponent doesn't do it to eat up time, (and it isn't like it takes forever anyway) they do it because its a good habit to keep up as it makes cheating harder, and I'm not saying that everyone's a cheater, but you never know who could be a cheater, and therefore it's a good way to make sure your never caught off guard. It's a safeguard. If you feel differently about it, then that's fine. Shuffle your opponent's deck out of spite, you're well with in your rights to do so.
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It's not out of spite, it's merely to reflect how pointless it is. You can tell if someone is stacking while they shuffle. They can't be looking through the deck while they shuffle. If you see me shuffling my cards face down for 20-25 seconds, then I'm obviously not cheating. I can understand shuffling your opponent's deck in top cut if you're paranoid, but other than that, just cut it, and CHANGE where you cut each time. Saves time, provides more time playing...which is what I came to do.
 
Austino said:
It's not out of spite, it's merely to reflect how pointless it is. You can tell if someone is stacking while they shuffle. They can't be looking through the deck while they shuffle. If you see me shuffling my cards face down for 20-25 seconds, then I'm obviously not cheating. I can understand shuffling your opponent's deck in top cut if you're paranoid, but other than that, just cut it, and CHANGE where you cut each time. Saves time, provides more time playing...which is what I came to do.
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Some players prefer to play all matches as if they were top cut matches, and while yes it isn't always necessary, that judgement is up to the player being asked to shuffle/cut, and I fully support my opponent in such cases. Also in my experiences matches tend to finish with plenty of time before the next match.
 
Hypno68 said:
I did an experiment the other day. I took 60 pokemon cards and marked them 1 through 60. I shuffled a good amount and examined the deck - I was shocked to see how little they had changed and how clumped they were. (I'd suggest everyone try this sometime - it's very interesting)

I then re-ordered and 6-piled. Then I proceeded to shuffle. The difference was amazing!

Point being - I do not trust shuffling as much as I trust 6-piling.


As for me, I like giving my opponent's deck a little shuffle...
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The issue here then is your shuffling. Pile shuffling isn't actually randomizing a deck. If you marked your cards 1-60, pile shuffled, wrote down the order, then REordered them, pile shuffled, and stacked the piles the same way, the order would be the exact same. I pile shuffle myself as a means of counting my cards, but pile shuffling isn't randomizing.
 
Personally, i dont have an issue with my opponent shuffling my deck (it happens to me all the time). If they take too long to shuffle it, i ask them kindly to go a little quicker. If there are any further issues, I'll call a judge over. It's in the rules that your opponent is allowed to shuffle or cut your deck, and that if they shuffle, you're given the opportunity to cut it once afterwards. It shouldn't matter if either player is using "nice" sleeves or not, and if you are using nice sleeves, then I'd reccomend what Roles suggested (double sleeving your deck). Of course be sure to check with your local head judge before doing so. Just my 2 cents
 
look if you dont like how someone shuffles and you dont want them to shuffle your deck you can call over the judge and ask them if the judge can shuffle the deck.
 
I can't believe there are people here that don't believe in letting your opponent shuffle. Yea let's go ahead and let your opponent stack you. That's the smart thing to do.

And they are just sleeves people. If you paid 30+ for a pack of sleeves and expect them to last forever, you're an idiot. Buy a pack of old school players choice and call it a day. I'd rather pay 5$ vs 30$ for something I know will last and can put up with shuffling.
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Keep in mind, when you shuffle they can cut, and if they are cheating they are possible of cutting into holo cards.
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