Skittles(Mini Article Posted!)
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Black Mamba
New Member
garchomp=no (doesn't add anything besides being a DECENT attacker, which all the other techs can do)
phione=no (just slows down setup, phioneing into a Togekiss means no serene grace)
Getting a Ho-oh shuffled into your deck by Dusknoir is actually better than getting it bounced into your hand by Crawdaunt EX... THAT hurts.
phione=no (just slows down setup, phioneing into a Togekiss means no serene grace)
Getting a Ho-oh shuffled into your deck by Dusknoir is actually better than getting it bounced into your hand by Crawdaunt EX... THAT hurts.
Azure Kite
New Member
If your going to run a tech, run 1-1 Dusknoir. That beats just about any other 1-1 or more tech in Skittles.
master of puppets
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this should be moved to the achtypes area.
vanderbilt_grad
New Member
In addition to my own there was another skittles in top cut at SE regionals. The same gentlemen who took me out in top 8 got the other one in top 16.
Lucario EX
Moderator<br>Fanfic Contest Host
If you want to write an article with multiple versions like the Infernape and GG articles I can help.
Azure Kite
New Member
Yeah there quite a few of us playing Skittles at MD. Can't say that any of them did very well except for Lucario EX's variant...
zerophenx_chaos
New Member
the reason people think Ho-oh is such an easy kill and a "donk-fest" is because some people using it really don't speed it up enough. I've played fast Ho-oh and slow Ho-oh decks, and the ones that don't use the Togetic for speed are the ones that die off so easily.
This seems like a much better setup, built around the ho-oh getting charged as quickly as possible. This kind of rainbow is the kind that even my field controlling deck fears.
This seems like a much better setup, built around the ho-oh getting charged as quickly as possible. This kind of rainbow is the kind that even my field controlling deck fears.
ryanvergel
New Member
Unless you plan to stall your opponent out you'll lose to any good magmortar/GG player.
Some guy round 1 got off a T2 100 (I had only gone once, drew/pass with no energy for my active pachi) and beat down my setup and I still would have won if he didn't stall me out. I got the prizes down to 3-2 (he took 4 prizes, and I had to come back in 10 minutes to take 4 prizes), but whiffed on my last turn to get a fire energy. Felicitys+claydol isnt enough sometimes to get one of your 15 energy that provide fire.
This deck is absolutely terrible. It's completely luck-based. I'd rather just use porygon or something if I want to donk my opponent >_>
Past t3 you'll never be able to use togekiss or claydol, and your ho-oh swarm won't do any good vs GG.
Magmortar? Unless you just get ridiculously lucky and they draw/pass for multiple turns as you get a t2 100 the deck can't beat magmortar. Any smart player will simply leave you with 20-30 hp and burn you, either with something stupid like a torchic or a magmortar lvl x.
HOW did this deck POSSIBLY win a regionals? It loses to anything that doesn't get donked or isn't run by a complete scrub.
Some guy round 1 got off a T2 100 (I had only gone once, drew/pass with no energy for my active pachi) and beat down my setup and I still would have won if he didn't stall me out. I got the prizes down to 3-2 (he took 4 prizes, and I had to come back in 10 minutes to take 4 prizes), but whiffed on my last turn to get a fire energy. Felicitys+claydol isnt enough sometimes to get one of your 15 energy that provide fire.
This deck is absolutely terrible. It's completely luck-based. I'd rather just use porygon or something if I want to donk my opponent >_>
Past t3 you'll never be able to use togekiss or claydol, and your ho-oh swarm won't do any good vs GG.
Magmortar? Unless you just get ridiculously lucky and they draw/pass for multiple turns as you get a t2 100 the deck can't beat magmortar. Any smart player will simply leave you with 20-30 hp and burn you, either with something stupid like a torchic or a magmortar lvl x.
HOW did this deck POSSIBLY win a regionals? It loses to anything that doesn't get donked or isn't run by a complete scrub.
Azure Kite
New Member
Is it possible your just mad because you got a bad start and lost to a Skittles? I'll have you know I beat a Plox in a totallly non donkish way, and the player using Plox is the 20th best senior in the country. How did this deck possibly win a Regionals? Isn't it obvious? This deck isn't as bad as you think. Most people seem to think its a good deck. I think you've just had unfortunate experiences and matchups with the deck.
rhodesia123
New Member
psylock isnt that good versus a ho-oh thats already been kissed. you do 60, they do 120 and knock out gardy, you bring out another gardy, 60, PRAY fho-oh flips tails or else youre screwed
vanderbilt_grad
New Member
Why the hate Ryan? You play one staller and it's the DECK that's bad? Please.
I can see how a Skittles player could rely only on luck and do OK, but to me the luck based stuff is backup.
For instance Phoenix Turn ... it's a GREAT relief when it works but whenever I can I try to have a backup attacker ready so that the tails flip will not be the end of the game. Obviously not every game works like that. I can think of two situations at Regionals in particular where this power literally won a game for me ... but having that matter so much only 2 out of 12 games played doesn't strike me as something I relied on every game.
I can see how a Skittles player could rely only on luck and do OK, but to me the luck based stuff is backup.
For instance Phoenix Turn ... it's a GREAT relief when it works but whenever I can I try to have a backup attacker ready so that the tails flip will not be the end of the game. Obviously not every game works like that. I can think of two situations at Regionals in particular where this power literally won a game for me ... but having that matter so much only 2 out of 12 games played doesn't strike me as something I relied on every game.
Ryan...I feel sad that you don't believe in this deck. The Mag matchup is one of the harder matchups if it gets past turn 5, true, but the fact that you win most matchups in which you get turn 1-3 donk (which this can do very easily) is very relieving. But GG matchups are pretty favorable. If they waste too much resources on KOing a Ho-oh, you can easily overwhelm them with Togekiss swarms.
I'll be working on parts of the article later today and hopefully we'll be able to clear up some misconceptions.
I'll be working on parts of the article later today and hopefully we'll be able to clear up some misconceptions.
Flygon999
New Member
If you succeed with Phoenix Turn, it helps a LOT!!! Getting at least 1 heads with Phoenix Turn during the game really can help.
This deck does kind of rely on luck.
1. Drawing what you need with Claydol.
2. Getting out a lot and the right types of energys with Togekiss.
3. Getting heads with Phoenix Turn.
This deck does kind of rely on luck.
1. Drawing what you need with Claydol.
2. Getting out a lot and the right types of energys with Togekiss.
3. Getting heads with Phoenix Turn.
DarthPika
New Member
Umm... no, you donked him.
If you hadn't donked him, theres no way in this world you would have ever won.
ryanvergel
New Member
True, other decks can get donkey starts, but other decks dont rely on donking flips and nice hands to win.
I played the deck once at regionals and got donked. However, even despite him getting the perfect possible start and me getting one of my worst I was still able to come back because the deck is so inconsistent and luck-based.
Whiffing 2 phoenix turns in a row will likely cost you the game. Getting psychic locked before you donk a togekiss will likely lead to a loss. Playing a good magmortar player is a loss if you dont stall them out. I don't care what you say, magmortar is THE comeback deck, and should beat this deck most of the time.
What does this deck even beat?
I just don't see how this deck can legitimately (as in consistently and due to skill/deck not ripping ridiculous crap or getting 4/4 phoenix turn) beat the big decks out there.
Even banette gyarados can beat this. Whack for 80 with banette, and even if you kill it (only guaranteeing another 80 next turn) one moved damage counter means youre KOd and lose a billion energy. GG needs only to have a gallade or lvl X to counter the early bird, and as long as ho-oh didn't get 2 turn heads in a row it should die and be a prize excahnge with a loss in energy (and if you count the useless stage 2 on the bench that was needed for the dead bird...). You need 6 distinct energy and a pluspower or 7 different energy... How is a ho-oh's normal 2HKO vs the lvl Xs any good when you still lose so many energy and resources. If I were running GG I would let you sack whatever dumb stuff you wanted to, then a simple gallade/scramble or lvl x/scramble to 2hko the bird (or OHKO possibly with gallade) should shut the deck down. What's the response to psychic lock? Manually attaching a billion different energies to attack or doing a crappy 60 a turn? Even if you take 2-3 early prizes, NEEDING to 2hko those big guys and them either locking or OHKOing you makes me think the deck isn't legit at all.
I see it losing to magmortar, plox, banette/gyarados, anything water, anything cessation, ape, swampert. this deck loses to everything if it doesnt donk people.
I guess you have to pray to get off phoenix turns exactly when you need them?
I didn't say the deck was bad because of a staller, vanderbilt_grad. Read my post next time? I was exemplifying the horrible nature of the deck by saying that even with this deck getting a godstart (t2 100 before the opponent gets off a CFF?) and the opponent getting dead draw the deck can't win because it's just so disgustingly bad.
I played the deck once at regionals and got donked. However, even despite him getting the perfect possible start and me getting one of my worst I was still able to come back because the deck is so inconsistent and luck-based.
Whiffing 2 phoenix turns in a row will likely cost you the game. Getting psychic locked before you donk a togekiss will likely lead to a loss. Playing a good magmortar player is a loss if you dont stall them out. I don't care what you say, magmortar is THE comeback deck, and should beat this deck most of the time.
What does this deck even beat?
I just don't see how this deck can legitimately (as in consistently and due to skill/deck not ripping ridiculous crap or getting 4/4 phoenix turn) beat the big decks out there.
Even banette gyarados can beat this. Whack for 80 with banette, and even if you kill it (only guaranteeing another 80 next turn) one moved damage counter means youre KOd and lose a billion energy. GG needs only to have a gallade or lvl X to counter the early bird, and as long as ho-oh didn't get 2 turn heads in a row it should die and be a prize excahnge with a loss in energy (and if you count the useless stage 2 on the bench that was needed for the dead bird...). You need 6 distinct energy and a pluspower or 7 different energy... How is a ho-oh's normal 2HKO vs the lvl Xs any good when you still lose so many energy and resources. If I were running GG I would let you sack whatever dumb stuff you wanted to, then a simple gallade/scramble or lvl x/scramble to 2hko the bird (or OHKO possibly with gallade) should shut the deck down. What's the response to psychic lock? Manually attaching a billion different energies to attack or doing a crappy 60 a turn? Even if you take 2-3 early prizes, NEEDING to 2hko those big guys and them either locking or OHKOing you makes me think the deck isn't legit at all.
I see it losing to magmortar, plox, banette/gyarados, anything water, anything cessation, ape, swampert. this deck loses to everything if it doesnt donk people.
I guess you have to pray to get off phoenix turns exactly when you need them?
I didn't say the deck was bad because of a staller, vanderbilt_grad. Read my post next time? I was exemplifying the horrible nature of the deck by saying that even with this deck getting a godstart (t2 100 before the opponent gets off a CFF?) and the opponent getting dead draw the deck can't win because it's just so disgustingly bad.
Ryan, you have legitimate arguments, and the fact is that until last weekend this was still considered rogue. Once the article is put up I'm sure the deck will have a harder time winning because it will be easier to understand the deck and how to beat it, and the fact is that it is pretty easy to beat if you have some skill.
And what do you have against donking? Donk = win. That's what combo decks in all games do...and this is no different. I sense you're having a hard time grasping this. The primary strategy of the deck is to donk, but it has a backup plan that uses the combo pieces just in case you don't. You can't look at this deck and judge it based on other decks this format because it's really different. The only decks that this can be paralleled to would be Zap-turn-dos or ZRE because the majority of games won by them were from pure speed, and they had deteriorating quality for late game.
It's clearly not a bad deck if it won in SoCal. Some of the best players in the country made top cut there and this beat them, including beating MadHatter w/ Arithmetic which you claim to be a bad matchup. Test the deck and you'll see.
And what do you have against donking? Donk = win. That's what combo decks in all games do...and this is no different. I sense you're having a hard time grasping this. The primary strategy of the deck is to donk, but it has a backup plan that uses the combo pieces just in case you don't. You can't look at this deck and judge it based on other decks this format because it's really different. The only decks that this can be paralleled to would be Zap-turn-dos or ZRE because the majority of games won by them were from pure speed, and they had deteriorating quality for late game.
It's clearly not a bad deck if it won in SoCal. Some of the best players in the country made top cut there and this beat them, including beating MadHatter w/ Arithmetic which you claim to be a bad matchup. Test the deck and you'll see.
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