hitmonchan93
New Member
How exactly does it outlast Beedrill? In that department, Beedrill has everything going for it.
So what exactly does Luxape lose to anyways?
- Thread starter Shen
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How exactly does it outlast Beedrill? In that department, Beedrill has everything going for it.
Lance_Wilson
New Member
I've won the majority of my matchups against the deck thus far using T-Tar, Seems like 70 to their main and 30 to the bench when they're already hurting their own bench gets nasty. Granted they can get lucky with Poketurns.
Banette EX
New Member
I said Legos, I didnt say anything about Palkia not being great. In the Luxray thread, I even explain why Palkia is great. Legos name or deck just sounds stupid to me, its just a Palkia variant, call it something in that area.
^oh, well i suppose you're right...Legos is a dumb name:tongue:
beedrill loses steam when its Bees die, especially its RR Bees, Luxape can basically snipe for weakness and has crobats when needed. When Bees start dying it takes time to bring them back, even more so when there are PWR Sprays being used. When Infernapes start dying, they come back almost immeidetly unfazed or get Turned (after some galactic switching) before they are actually KO'ed.
I have played this match up many times and Beedrill is about even with Luxape in the beginning (well really more like the middle) and then falls apart towards the end
okeball:
beedrill loses steam when its Bees die, especially its RR Bees, Luxape can basically snipe for weakness and has crobats when needed. When Bees start dying it takes time to bring them back, even more so when there are PWR Sprays being used. When Infernapes start dying, they come back almost immeidetly unfazed or get Turned (after some galactic switching) before they are actually KO'ed.
I have played this match up many times and Beedrill is about even with Luxape in the beginning (well really more like the middle) and then falls apart towards the end
okeball:
TheDarkTwins
Active Member
Okay, I played Flygon/Weavile and I had Dusknoir and 3 Upper Energy. I would LET Beedrill take the first two prizes and then we would end up KOing each other until the Beedrill Player has 1 prize to Flygon with 3. The SP dark is huge and the fact is that is when I would drop my Noir to remove 2 Beedrill in one turn. Most times it would leave them with only 1 or 2 Beedrill in Play and I would be able to collect my last two prizes. I was 9-0 or something like that versus Beedrill. I don't see my list losing to it, but the fact is Beedrill is an awful play for the Grinder as is Machamp. They are also poor choices for Worlds, but lets not even get into that.
I think that overall the BEST choice for beating Luxape is one of three decks. Luxape itself, Flygon, or Palka Lock. DPL might be a viable choice, but I haven't test it. The problems is if you play some of the other choices that aren't those 3, your going to run into trouble versus almost any deck that isn't one of those and trust me in saying that I would believe that some of the decks that seem to have an advantage (Machamp) really don't if the player is ready for it. I think that if you want to play something that has a decent shot, I would go with one of those 3, Flygon, Luxape, or Palkia Lock.
Drew
SlimeyGrimey
New Member
Yeah, ok, I would expect your list to beat Beedrill pretty regularily with Dusknoir and Upper.
Banette EX
New Member
The deck can function without powers?? Someone understands what I was saying. Palkia Lock is hard yes, but LuxApe can cover it. Luxray is just too much for them to have consistent OHKO vs their main attacker. Azelf MT techs hurt yes, but Luxray still can 120 Palkia for 2 energy. Toxicroak G Promo can be a problem, but alot of the time I just Uxie Lv.X and Ko Croak. Palkia comes and I rinse and repeat.
It loses to Palkia Lock, yes but it beats it as well. More than you give it credit for.
^ Huh? I said Luxape > Palkia lock lol I don't know how it came across any differently.
Palkia just can't keep up with the prize trading. I meant LUXAPE can function without Powers... and if they really need to they can Power Spray a Mesprit. Palkia still has Power Sprays in its defense, but they're not gonna drop them on anything but a Bright Look because the match slips further and further away every time Luxray KO's Palkia Lv. X (Which will be 3 times tops, usually only twice). What does Luxape even NEED against Palkia? Luxrays, an Energy Gain, and an Energy. Gimme a Cyrus and I'm GTG.
And I totally agree with you on Legos being a dumb name. I really don't like deck names beyond that starring Pokemon unless they're true rogues (And Palkia and Mesprit is far too obvious of a combination... it might as well be Toxicroak and Skuntank lol).
Palkia just can't keep up with the prize trading. I meant LUXAPE can function without Powers... and if they really need to they can Power Spray a Mesprit. Palkia still has Power Sprays in its defense, but they're not gonna drop them on anything but a Bright Look because the match slips further and further away every time Luxray KO's Palkia Lv. X (Which will be 3 times tops, usually only twice). What does Luxape even NEED against Palkia? Luxrays, an Energy Gain, and an Energy. Gimme a Cyrus and I'm GTG.
And I totally agree with you on Legos being a dumb name. I really don't like deck names beyond that starring Pokemon unless they're true rogues (And Palkia and Mesprit is far too obvious of a combination... it might as well be Toxicroak and Skuntank lol).
TheDarkTwins
Active Member
Uxie Lv. X is not helpful in the matchup, you have to attach 3 energy to it to attack. That is not easy to do. I would prefer to let them KO the Luxray and then start building something to KO the next Palkia. I just see that a bad choice and idea to do. I have done some serious testing and I have found that Palkia wins most of the time. It is not a easy matchup and anyone who says it is in Luxape favor has been testing against a crappy list. However, I still think it is a close matchup. I expect that it is around a 40/60 or so in favor of Palkia.
Drew
^ I think I misunderstand your first line of that post... Uxie attacking for 3 and all.
I test too, so I guess if I don't agree with you I'm a bad player =/ I dunno it just seems like basic math to me. You KO them 2 - 1.
Here's a bit of Theorymon but this is how pretty much every game has played out before I scoop (Me being the Palkia player):
Luxape goes first.
Luxape attaches and possibly calls. I'd say the odds of starting with with 1/4 calls or 1/3 Luxrays makes Luxray Lv. X T2 pretty reasonable.
Palkia does whatever. Let's say they drop a Mesprit, attach, and possibly do 20. It would be pretty unreasonable to expect them to get both a Mesprit and a Toxicroak G Promo w/ Energy out T1.
Luxray Levels Up, attaches to Infernape. They should have a Gain on Luxray, they KO Palkia. Let's say they KO Palkia though.
Toxicroak KO's Luxray.
Infernape KO's Toxicroak.
At this point I don't see where the winning conditions enter for Palkia. Palkia MAY be able to KO Infernape given extreme conditions, but then Luxray can come back out... again. The only difference if PALKIA goes first is at this point they'd get the KO on Infernape which makes for a slightly more favorable situation... but around here I start to scoop anyways. With high Cyrus counts in both decks, this situation plays out very closely each time. I can't argue with your experience but that's mine.
Palkia goes first, it's winnable. If not, they lose IMO. Palkia can't keep the energy advantage if they go second. So if it's about even if Luxray goes 2nd, but favorable when it goes first, I still don't see how its unfavorable to Luxape. I apologize for throwing all this theorymon at you but its just elementry prize trading IMHO. The only difference if Palkia goes first is that Luxray needs to pick it off the bench later in the game since they can't get the KO T2. But seriously, it's totally set until it does... because Toxicroak G is only triggered when it does. Toxi is a prize trader at best, it keeps things even but doesn't win the game.
I test too, so I guess if I don't agree with you I'm a bad player =/ I dunno it just seems like basic math to me. You KO them 2 - 1.
Here's a bit of Theorymon but this is how pretty much every game has played out before I scoop (Me being the Palkia player):
Luxape goes first.
Luxape attaches and possibly calls. I'd say the odds of starting with with 1/4 calls or 1/3 Luxrays makes Luxray Lv. X T2 pretty reasonable.
Palkia does whatever. Let's say they drop a Mesprit, attach, and possibly do 20. It would be pretty unreasonable to expect them to get both a Mesprit and a Toxicroak G Promo w/ Energy out T1.
Luxray Levels Up, attaches to Infernape. They should have a Gain on Luxray, they KO Palkia. Let's say they KO Palkia though.
Toxicroak KO's Luxray.
Infernape KO's Toxicroak.
At this point I don't see where the winning conditions enter for Palkia. Palkia MAY be able to KO Infernape given extreme conditions, but then Luxray can come back out... again. The only difference if PALKIA goes first is at this point they'd get the KO on Infernape which makes for a slightly more favorable situation... but around here I start to scoop anyways. With high Cyrus counts in both decks, this situation plays out very closely each time. I can't argue with your experience but that's mine.
Palkia goes first, it's winnable. If not, they lose IMO. Palkia can't keep the energy advantage if they go second. So if it's about even if Luxray goes 2nd, but favorable when it goes first, I still don't see how its unfavorable to Luxape. I apologize for throwing all this theorymon at you but its just elementry prize trading IMHO. The only difference if Palkia goes first is that Luxray needs to pick it off the bench later in the game since they can't get the KO T2. But seriously, it's totally set until it does... because Toxicroak G is only triggered when it does. Toxi is a prize trader at best, it keeps things even but doesn't win the game.
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TheDarkTwins
Active Member
Way, to complete not listen to what I said. I said crappy/bad list, not crappy/bad players. I have tested against a list that gets T1 gets all 3 Pixie down and locks me up quite nice. It is not as clear cut as you say. If you play against a deck you can't say well it should be it when it has its best start. You should be talking about if it can win when it gets a mediocre start. Heck any deck can beat another with an amazing start, that doesn't mean much, but to beat a deck when you have a mediocre start and they have an amazing start is something that is worth testing and worth some merit. I think you need to realize that you are being quite optimistic that they won't be able to pull that all off T1 or T2 and that you will be able to do that. You whole strategy hinges on the fact that hey don't have the 3 Pixie out. I think you should serious rethink the matchup as a whole.
Drew
Getting 3 Pixies out T1/2 ISN'T optimistic compared to what I just said? I was actually trying to give the Palkia player favorable draws, trading prizes every time Luxape hits a KO.
In your opinion, what exactly in Palkia makes the match favorable? Are you saying you have a build that specifically gets all 3 Pixies out early? Because from my experience that isn't all that standard, so I can't discuss much on your specific build (Not to put words in your mouth, I wouldn't dare do that... Was just wondering if that were the case).
So say you get Azelf MT out, I still have some time before I lose the energy advantage. I can still Bright Look it up, and I'd try my best to Power Spray your Mesprits. And it's EXTREMELY unrealistic if you have 3 Pixies AND 3 SP's out to have both Downer Material and a Power Spray up that early.
And I've said it before, Luxape doesn't even need that many resources to function. You need Mesprit, Uxie, Azelf (MT), Toxicroak G promo (Ideally), Palkia, and a filler SP all without dropping an Azelf LA (Toxicroak, Palkia Lv. X, and Azelf MT are all subject to being prized assuming you only play 1 of each. If you don't, I apologize) unless you get Palkia Lv. X out too. If you got that, them I'm a bit cloudy on my definition "optimistic."
In your opinion, what exactly in Palkia makes the match favorable? Are you saying you have a build that specifically gets all 3 Pixies out early? Because from my experience that isn't all that standard, so I can't discuss much on your specific build (Not to put words in your mouth, I wouldn't dare do that... Was just wondering if that were the case).
So say you get Azelf MT out, I still have some time before I lose the energy advantage. I can still Bright Look it up, and I'd try my best to Power Spray your Mesprits. And it's EXTREMELY unrealistic if you have 3 Pixies AND 3 SP's out to have both Downer Material and a Power Spray up that early.
And I've said it before, Luxape doesn't even need that many resources to function. You need Mesprit, Uxie, Azelf (MT), Toxicroak G promo (Ideally), Palkia, and a filler SP all without dropping an Azelf LA (Toxicroak, Palkia Lv. X, and Azelf MT are all subject to being prized assuming you only play 1 of each. If you don't, I apologize) unless you get Palkia Lv. X out too. If you got that, them I'm a bit cloudy on my definition "optimistic."
Ariadosman
New Member
This is true, but I reckon it's arguable whether dialga is worth it.
Son_of_Apollo
New Member
I think that Luxape is the BDIF. I have been testing and I can't find a bad matchup. That said i haven't tried it against legos yet. I would have to say these are the top 3 decks in format:
1. Luxape
2. Palkia Lock
3. Gallade 4
1. Luxape
2. Palkia Lock
3. Gallade 4