Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Speed Charizard (MD-on)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Let's not totally knock the idea yet, burnpsy. Unless you already tried it out long before with the deck, let's try those burn cards out. If I'm correct, then this should be something like the Shuppet engine, but without the Victory Medals. If you do have any, I think it's worth a shot to try out. If somehow it doesn't, we can all get a good laugh for trying.

Pokémon (21)
4-2-4 Charizard [AR-AR-AR]
3-3 Ninetales [PL#SH6-GS]
3 Unown R [LA]
2 Uxie [LA]

Trainers (29)
1 Luxury Ball
3 Pokémon Communication
3 Rare Candy
3 Warp Point
4 PokéDrawer+
4 Pokédex HANDY910is
4 Broken Time-Space
3 Expert Belt
2 Pokémon Collector
1 Palmer's Contribution
1 Fisherman

Energy (10)
10 Fire Energy
 
Last edited:
Let's not totally knock the idea yet, burnpsy. Unless you already tried it out long before with the deck, let's try those burn cards out. If I'm correct, then this should be something like the Shuppet engine, but without the Victory Medals. If you do have any, I think it's worth a shot to try out. If somehow it doesn't, we can all get a good laugh for trying.

Pokémon (21)
4-2-4 Charizard [AR-AR-AR]
3-3 Ninetales [PL#SH6-GS]
3 Unown R [LA]
2 Uxie [LA]

Trainers (29)
1 Luxury Ball
3 Pokémon Communication
3 Rare Candy
3 Warp Point
4 PokéDrawer+
4 Pokédex HANDY910is
4 Broken Time-Space
3 Expert Belt
2 Pokémon Collector
1 Palmer's Contribution
1 Fisherman

Energy (10)
10 Fire Energy

Good list, but maybe find a way to throw in some Bebe's?
 
Good point - i see that is is speed now.

However, I think it still needs a little more search power.

Maybe Quick Balls?
 
I'm not interested at all in the whole Grass Deck argument. I posted this deck for help on building the deck, not to get lectured or argue. As such, all comments to do with that will be ignored.

I thought you seriously wanted help with your deck, not to just ignore any suggestions someone gives you. A speed deck is defined by heavy Trainers, Low Energy, minimal Supporters, and being able to get a full set up 90% or more of the time by turn 2, which the build you have doesn't do. The Trainer suggestions I made along with the Pokemon (Uxie and Unown R) will give you the that.

If you aren't comfortable playing that strategy, fine. But don't outright dismiss it when you haven't even given it a shot. Can you get a horrible lone Unown start? Sure. Is it likely? No.

Let's not totally knock the idea yet, burnpsy. Unless you already tried it out long before with the deck, let's try those burn cards out. If I'm correct, then this should be something like the Shuppet engine, but without the Victory Medals. If you do have any, I think it's worth a shot to try out. If somehow it doesn't, we can all get a good laugh for trying.

I've actually tried it before. It either couldn't get the full strength of Fire Wing (with no hope for the other attack), or it had cloggy hands and such. Just to stop this, I'll give it another shot with this list:

4-2-4 Charizard [AR-AR-AR]
3-3 Ninetales [PL#SH6-GS]
2 Unown R [LA]
2 Uxie [LA]

1 Luxury Ball
4 Poké Drawer +
2 Poké Radar
4 Pokédex HANDY910is
2 Pokémon Communication
3 Quick Ball
3 Rare Candy
2 Warp Point

3 Expert Belt

1 Fisherman
2 Pokémon Collector

3 Broken Time-Space

10 :fire: Energy

I must admit that it worked very quickly. However, you under-exaggerated the amount of Unown R/Uxie starts. In any case, you seem to be dead-set on making me commit to a list like this... fine, but now the deck's more vulnerable to trainer locks (as I mentioned earlier).

I'll edit this into the opening post.

I like the warp point idea and that would help out a lot. Charizard has quite a big retreat cost, so you will need quite a bit when ppl come with crobats and all these other status effect decks.

The build runs 2 Warp Point and 2 Warp Energy. I'd think that's enough.

If you want it to be speedy, drop the Typholsion line, which rarely even gets up by T3. As you said, you really don't need Charizard's second attack, it's the first you focus on.

-2-1-2 Typhlosion
-1 Rare Candy

+1-1 Ninetales
+1-1 Rapidash Wild Guard (SP isn't as prominent in Juniors last time I checked, but if he comes up against SP he'll need the help.)
+1 Communication
+1 BTS

3 Ninetales could mean drawing 9 cards, which greatly helps your setup. Max BTS means you can set up your support Ninetales super fast. And with a main attacker that only needs one energy, losing 3 of your 13 R energy shouldn't significantly hurt.

...Dialga G LV.X nullifies Rapidash's PokeBody, if the SP build runs it.

In any case, the deck essentially being remade from scratch because of waynegg makes most of these changes not so relevant anymore.
 
Quick balls are pretty chancy. I think you'll find the Pokedex/Pokedrawer/Unown R combination is super helpful, and Quick Balls aren't needed. I'd maybe drop 1 Unown R for another Collector to improve consistency, but other than that I like that list.

EDIT: Ah, ninja'd by OP. :) It's true that 4 of the 11 basics could be considered a bad start. However, Uxie can vanish, and Unown R can either be Warp Pointed or retreated for 1 energy.
 
Quick balls are pretty chancy. I think you'll find the Pokedex/Pokedrawer/Unown R combination is super helpful, and Quick Balls aren't needed. I'd maybe drop 1 Unown R for another Collector to improve consistency, but other than that I like that list.

EDIT: Ah, ninja'd by OP. :) It's true that 4 of the 11 basics could be considered a bad start. However, Uxie can vanish, and Unown R can either be Warp Pointed or retreated for 1 energy.

Yeah, I realized that.

Also, a note about Quick Ball: If one doesn't get what they want, Communication is there to force out what one does need. Actually, it's a bit difficult for Quick Ball to go bad, since this deck will run through the deck quickly. I believe my tests got several turn 2 situations where the deck only had 6 cards left - 2 of those being Pokemon at the most.
 
If you're fine with Quick Ball, you can go ahead and drop the Poké Radar for another Quick Ball and up your Communication count.
 
Oh no, I was fine with Quick Ball myself, since it guarantees you a Pokémon. I actually don't like the idea of using cards like Master Ball and Dusk Ball since they only give you so big a window to search.
 
Oh no, I was fine with Quick Ball myself, since it guarantees you a Pokémon. I actually don't like the idea of using cards like Master Ball and Dusk Ball since they only give you so big a window to search.

OK then. I'll put the Quick Ball back in at 4, then.
 
Oh. That really doesn't matter against a Leafeon + Roserade deck. As I explained, Charizard can handle them with Fire Wing.

I was simply pointing out the very flawed logic in the above assumption. If you don't want real help, then that's fine. I see you decided to take my advice and go with a real speed engine though, so maybe I do know what I'm talking about...
 
Tested. The results are quite varied. Sometimes, I get a turn 1 Charizard with a Ninetales, but nothing else and an empty hand. Sometimes, I get 3 Ninetales, 2 Charizard, both equipped with an energy and a Uxie benched with a 12+ card hand by turn 2. In most cases, I'm either stranded with one or two Pokemon, usually basics, or I have a full setup. In some other cases, I get the first Charizard and a good bench, but no second one - which causes obvious problems after the first one dies. Sometimes, I get multiple Ninteales with no energy in hand. In most cases, the best that can be mustered T2 is 70, missing OHKOs on some Pokemon.

I've swapped a Quick Ball for a third Collector. apparently, this isn't enough to solve the issue.

Idea:

4 SSU and a 3rd Uxie. At the very least a few SSU.
Less hand clog. Some things are useless after I get one of them. The largest offenders are BTS and Rare Candy - a single BTS makes me only pull out Rare Candy once or twice per game, and extra BTS in hand clog too much for Uxie to work at its best.

Due to these, I tossed out all of the remaining Quick Balls for SSU, to make Uxie work to its fullest.

The deck is fairly consistent, but clogs sometimes. So it's good, and bad, but one can't fix the bad without creating more bad - I tried lowering the count of Rare candy, I tried lowering the count of BTS, I tried both together, it just causes more problems.
 
How exactly were the games you played before deciding to try the speed build? Were things running smoother? Did you almost always get what you needed when you needed it?
 
How exactly were the games you played before deciding to try the speed build? Were things running smoother? Did you almost always get what you needed when you needed it?

In that build, one had to get the second attack running to do anything decent. The first attack did the same 60-70 early-game. But yeah, Sableye was convenient.

Both of the versions have their merits. This one can (about 65ish% of the time) run through most of the deck in two turns. The other version took the same 2 turns to get ready, was annoyed at the benched Uxie, and used Typhlosion to get the second attack running ASAP. With Typhlosion, the second attack took only two turns to get ready, and the first turn could be a weakened Fire Wing. Still, the older one had the same start almost every time because Sableye was regulating it, which was nice.

So this one has a faster start, gets ready quicker and such, but can clog and get bad starting hands more easily.

The older one was slower by a turn almost every time, but the games almost always ran the same, since they could always start with Sableye sending Collector and such.
 
I think at this point in time, you should decide if you want Charizard to get that jump start or regulate it. I was thinking how I would modify that deck with that speed setup, but nothing came to mind.
 
Leafeon lvx lets you play another energy card each turn. Leafeon ud does 50 for each status the defending pokemon has for :colorless:. Combined with roserade attach a rainbow thats 100+poison. the deck does fine at the moment.
This looks good in theory, but in testing you'll find that this deck is one of pokegym's hypes. Unable to keep up with anything and inconsistent.

Now 'bout your deck, I find that you usually only need 1-2 fisherment tops. Maybe a recovery card like palmer's could do ya good. I also find in a speed deck, monk's training is a nice card to have too.
 
I think at this point in time, you should decide if you want Charizard to get that jump start or regulate it. I was thinking how I would modify that deck with that speed setup, but nothing came to mind.

I just consulted with my brothers. While regulating starts would be better in general, the speed build is faster and thus may be able to dodge trainer lock (although missing OHKOs sometimes). While I would personally go for regulating starts, I think the speed build is a safer bet because my brother's the one who will be running the deck, and he's not exactly a great listener when it comes to game strategies (for example, I built him one of the simplest good YGO decks ever - Machina Gadgets - I've spent the last few months lecturing him on how he's not playing the deck correctly, and he loses because of it), but he can't exactly make the wrong move easily in the speed version.

So we're keeping the speed one because my brother isn't smart enough to play the self-regulating one properly, pretty much. But he's 7, so I don't blame him.

This looks good in theory, but in testing you'll find that this deck is one of pokegym's hypes. Unable to keep up with anything and inconsistent.

I thought so.

Now 'bout your deck, I find that you usually only need 1-2 fisherment tops. Maybe a recovery card like palmer's could do ya good. I also find in a speed deck, monk's training is a nice card to have too.

Needing 1-2 Fishermen per game is one of the reasons why only 1 is in here. I find that it's pulled for that once per game for a decent chunk of the time, but it can also mess with the deck's flow if it's drawn when not needed.

I lack space for Palmer's. Unfortunately, running both may end up getting in the way.

Monk's Training is a slightly better, glorified Cynthia's Guidance. Both are Supporters that look through X amount of cards and add them to the hand. Cynthia's lets you look at 7 and pick 1 then shuffle them back in, Sage's Training (which is the proper name, as "Monk" was localized as "Sage") lets you look at 5 and pick 2 then discard the other 3. Cynthia's can be seen as better for letting you pick from a larger selection and doesn't discard stuff (though some decks may like the discard). Monk's Training can be seen as better because it lets you select two as opposed to one and thins the deck by five instead of one.

Was Cynthia's Guidance ever good? If not, I don't get why everyone's saying Monk's Training will be. Monk's Training is just a larger-range Burning Head (but a supporter, rather than a LV.X PokePower), and I can say from playing Infernape LV.X for three seasons that it's only at all good if your deck can satisfy the following criteria:

  1. Benefits from discarding cards.
  2. Runs enough of what needs to be discarded to see it consistently.
  3. Has plenty of recovery.
  4. Can access this ability as many times as possible to ensure its constructive use.

Unfortunately, this deck satisfies none of these, and usually makes lots of use from Collector and Fisherman as their Supporters anyways. Even if it was good in here, there wouldn't be a chance to use it.
 
I think that, recovery wise, you only need one of either Fisherman or Palmers. I'd choose Palmers.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top