Qwachansey
Active Member
I would love to see SP decline/die/be buried alive.
Vilegar is horrible? Sorry, but no it isn't. People have been saying this for ages, and yet Vilegar was always in the top 4 decks in regards to winning/top cutting in BRs, and seems to be doing that again for Cities. Vilegar is not at all horrible. Is it the BDIF? Of course not. But it's certainly good.LuxChomp is still the best deck in the format. Gyarados is a close second. Vilegar is still horrible. Machamp can't beat vilegar or Gyarados, and therefore becomes a worse and worse deck choice the less the "average" player uses SP. So the less SP gets used, the less you can justify using Machamp, and the easier it is for SP to exist despite it. For reference, at Cities this weekend, me and Martin went roughly 10-1 ( the loss being my Unown Q getting t1d ) vs Machamp using LuxChomp.
The issue isn't " SP being dead " as most of the games top players have been doing extremely well with it still. The issue is a lot of peoples lists have fallen behind and haven't caught up to the other new deck builds yet. Sorry to burst your bubble.
SP is broken as heck and to me, doesn't require a lot of skill. Skill? Where is it. Everybody's playing mainly the same deck types with minor alterations.
At least I see some good variation in VileGar/Gary.D/Machamp.
I can't wait for Plat. to be rotated/
Vilegar is horrible? Sorry, but no it isn't. People have been saying this for ages, and yet Vilegar was always in the top 4 decks in regards to winning/top cutting in BRs, and seems to be doing that again for Cities. Vilegar is not at all horrible. Is it the BDIF? Of course not. But it's certainly good.
Yes, it doesn't prove everything, but it proves something. To call Vilegar "terrible" is to choose to ignore that it's done well. Vilegar was overhyped, yes, but it's still a good deck that's picked up quite a few wins. Until it quits winning, I'm going to continue calling it a good deck, since a good deck is one that wins, plain and simple.Vilegar is the most overated deck out there at the moment, it loses to any decent player. Regigigas is one of the top decks at the moment, but it's not exactly up there on tournament wins - it doesn't prove everything.
If by "dead" you mean "other decks are starting to catch up", then yes, SP is dead.
But of course, that also means Apple is dead, because Google is starting to catch up in the Smartphone race.
Yes, it doesn't prove everything, but it proves something. To call Vilegar "terrible" is to choose to ignore that it's done well. Vilegar was overhyped, yes, but it's still a good deck that's picked up quite a few wins. Until it quits winning, I'm going to continue calling it a good deck, since a good deck is one that wins, plain and simple.
The only reason that Vilegar wins is because it beats medicore players. Once you start to hit bigger tournaments with alot more solid players, you're going to run into alot of problems. It's only real success was during Battle Roads which kind of says it all.
It's not completely unaccurate to say that something is good because it wins tournaments, but testing matchups to define a tier list is so much more accurate. Tournament results are swayed by the amount of people playing the deck (reason Regigigas doesn't do so well in that regard), those local metagames which are different to other peoples and just how good the player base is there. I have a big problem putting Vilegar along the same lines as Dialgachomp and Gyarados judging by tournament results when it loses horribly to anything SP.
I disagree that the ONLY reason it wins is because it beats mediocre players. I don't care how good of a player you are: If you are trainer locked for an entire game with Gyarados, you're hurting. Yes, there are ways out of trainer locks. Yes, skilled players can make a game of it, but it doesn't mean it isn't difficult.The only reason that Vilegar wins is because it beats medicore players. Once you start to hit bigger tournaments with alot more solid players, you're going to run into alot of problems. It's only real success was during Battle Roads which kind of says it all.
It's not completely unaccurate to say that something is good because it wins tournaments, but testing matchups to define a tier list is so much more accurate. Tournament results are swayed by the amount of people playing the deck (reason Regigigas doesn't do so well in that regard), those local metagames which are different to other peoples and just how good the player base is there. I have a big problem putting Vilegar along the same lines as Dialgachomp and Gyarados judging by tournament results when it loses horribly to anything SP.
Really, Machamp? Interesting, since in my experience it really isn't too great right now, since as you said SP is less common and Gyarados has the edge over Machamp. Heck, even Vilegar has the edge over Machamp. Machamp just isn't the best play right now.Here in SoCal, which, incredibly biased as I may be, I find to be one of the most difficult metas to overcome, SP is a rare occurrance. Great players in my area have all switched to Gyarados or Machamp.
I eagerly await the arrival of Lost World to truly clean up this SP mess that has been plaguing the format.
Here in SoCal, which, incredibly biased as I may be, I find to be one of the most difficult metas to overcome, SP is a rare occurrance. Great players in my area have all switched to Gyarados or Machamp.
I eagerly await the arrival of Lost World to truly clean up this SP mess that has been plaguing the format.
I disagree that the ONLY reason it wins is because it beats mediocre players. I don't care how good of a player you are: If you are trainer locked for an entire game with Gyarados, you're hurting. Yes, there are ways out of trainer locks. Yes, skilled players can make a game of it, but it doesn't mean it isn't difficult.
And note, I never said Vilegar was amazing. I only said it was good. I'd agree it's not BDIF. In fact, of the "big 4" (Luxchomp, Dialgachomp, Gyarados, Vilegar), Vilegar is probably at the bottom. Still, claiming it's a bad deck is simply inaccurate. It's good.