Um.. Drapion Level X...?

[KAZUTO!!!]

Yet you're assuming that it will be unplayable.

DRE Comeback? Won't happen.

Even if DRE did come back, Plox wouldn't rule. There are too many other great cards. :\

No, a 2x Weakness to Gardevoir doesn't make it unplayable. Even with DRE. Gardie gets outspeeded by it, and mega-poisoned. And with DRE, she can't OHKO. Or you can use Bubble Coat. Weakness isn't a big deal.

You don't KNOW that DRE won't be reprinted. Although I hope and doubt it won't, you never know!

Actually, if DRE did come back, PLOX would be amazing. Shut down the Claydols in Kingdra = WIN. Machamp Weakness = Good. Not needing many Trainers, so counters Poltergeist = Nice. OHKO anything in your path with Gallade = Fun. Looks pretty good to me...

I really don't understand you logic of how a Stage 1 Lv.X that needs 4 Energy to attack outspeeds a Stage 2 that only needs 3 Energy to attack. Gardy doesn't OHKO... but Gallade does. :wink: Besides, a non-DRE'd Gardy does 120 damage to Drapion, and attacking at least a turn before. What's Drapion going to do? 40? Haha, that's funny. When you send up your Psychic Resistant Darks, who are usually Weak to Fighting, I put up Gallade and Knock you Out. Easily.

It may be used for fun, League play, maybe even BRs, but I don't think it's going to win any major tournaments.

 

[ShinySwampert]

You don't KNOW that DRE won't be reprinted. Although I hope and doubt it won't, you never know!

Actually, if DRE did come back, PLOX would be amazing. Shut down the Claydols in Kingdra = WIN. Machamp Weakness = Good. Not needing many Trainers, so counters Poltergeist = Nice. OHKO anything in your path with Gallade = Fun. Looks pretty good to me...

I really don't understand you logic of how a Stage 1 Lv.X that needs 4 Energy to attack outspeeds a Stage 2 that only needs 3 Energy to attack. Gardy doesn't OHKO... but Gallade does. :wink: Besides, a non-DRE'd Gardy does 120 damage to Drapion, and attacking at least a turn before. What's Drapion going to do? 40? Haha, that's funny. When you send up your Psychic Resistant Darks, who are usually Weak to Fighting, I put up Gallade and Knock you Out. Easily.

It may be used for fun, League play, maybe even BRs, but I don't think it's going to win any major tournaments.

Dude, it won't happen.

Plox + DRE gets pwned by AMU (Mesprit has Psychic Lock as a power, Gallade gets blasted to for the KO), and you gotta have 3 energy to hit Dusknoir IFDS. You seriously think it beats Gengar!? With the HUGE hands Gardie yields, there are bound to at least 2-4 Trainers, Supporters, or Stadiums in there, not to mention the super-snipe Shadow-Loom 2HKOing the benched Gardie, while Gallade risks it's life every time it KO's a Gengar. Gengar pwns Plox hard. Deoxys Psycho Boost OHKOs Gardie, Mewtwo Lv.X is faster, and can OHKO Gardie or Gallade, and he's easy to rebuild. Salamence resists Gallade, and Gallade merely being in play activates Battle Dopamine which is way better than DRE. Just to name a few. So many Plox Counters it ain't funny.

Most of the time, when you play a Lv.X, there's another Pokemon of the same name beneath it. You can use it's attacks. Drapion IFDS has 3 attacks. One does 10 and paralyzes for free. Another does up to 120, and poison. Another one is Derail for 60 (up to 100 If Special Darkness is attached.) Bye-Bye DRE. Add that to the 3 (up to 7) damage counters you may take from poison, and Gardie/Gallade is KOed. Gallade is a wimp late game. He might get you 1-2 OHKO's if you do it early. Or he may get OHKOed by my Gengar, or KO himself when he KOs Gengar. Is Gardevoir and Gallade the only combo you can think of? It won't be that popular. Sorry, but there are too may counters to Gardevoir and Gallade in the new format.

Do you realize that Drapion can triple poison from the bench? This card has a ton of potential, and winning a major tournament with it in your deck isn't a stretch.

 

[Prime]

I disagree. Gallade + DRE turn 2 can win any game. Even AMU won't be doing the massive damage needed to OHKO Gallade on their second turn.

 

[ShinySwampert]

I disagree. Gallade + DRE turn 2 can win any game. Even AMU won't be doing the massive damage needed to OHKO Gallade on their second turn.

Gengar turn 2 without DRE beats Gallade with DRE turn 2. Gastly stops him from even seeing the field on turn 2.

No need to God Blast turn 2. AMU disrupts you turn 1. Gallade knocking out one of the Pixies isn't a big deal, not to mention that if (Snowpoint is in play, he flips two to do so,) and most likely, he'll pay for it.

 

[KAZUTO!!!]

Dude, it won't happen.

Plox + DRE gets pwned by AMU (Mesprit has Psychic Lock as a power), and Dusknoir IFDS (gotta have 3 energy attached to hit the it). You seriously think it beats Gengar!? With the HUGE hands Gardie yields, there are bound to at least 2-4 Trainers, Supporters, or Stadiums in there, not to mention the super-snipe Shadow-Loom 2HKOing the benched Gardie, while Gallade risks it's life every time it KO's a Gengar. Deoxys Psycho Boost OHKOs Gardie, Mewtwo Lv.X is faster, and can OHKO Gardie or Gallade, and he's easy to rebuild. Salamence resists Gallade, and Gallade merely being in play activates Battle Dopamine which is way better than DRE. Just to name a few. So many Plox Counters it ain't funny.

Most of the time, when you play a Lv.X, there's another Pokemon of the same name beneath it. You can use it's attacks. Drapion IFDS has 3 attacks. One does 10 and paralyzes for free. Another does up to 120, and poison. Another one is Derail for 60 (up to 100 If Special Darkness is attached.) Bye-Bye DRE. Add that to the 3 (up to 7) damage counters you may take from poison, and Gardie/Gallade is KOed. Gallade is a wimp late game. He might get you 1-2 OHKO's if you do it early. Or he may get OHKOed by my Gengar, or KO himself when he KOs Gengar. Is Gardevoir and Gallade the only combo you can think of? It won't be that popular. Sorry, but there are too may counters to Gardevoir and Gallade in the new format.

Do you realize that Drapion can triple poison from the bench? This card has a ton of potential, and winning a major tournament with it in your deck isn't a stretch.

Drapion can triple Poison from the Bench... with a coin flip. That's not that great... triple poison is fine, but it's easily cured by Retreating or Warping.

Psychic Lock doesn't auto-win against PLOX. Mesprit has that as a Power... which you can only use when you play it from your hand. Gardevoir OHKOs everything in AMU unless they have Snowpoint in play with DRE. And Moonlight Stadium takes out Snowpoint.

I can use your own Supporters. I won't hesitate to Cosmic Power a Bebe's Search away, like most decks. I can clear out around 3 Supporters a turn from my hand - and that's not even counting and regular Trainers or Stadiums in my hand! While you are trying to KO a Benched Gardy, I'm Psychic Locking you, preventing you from getting more Gengars set up or at least making it harder, and Wagering, making my hand less likely have Trainers is I lose! If you lose... well, you're stuck with a 3 card hand. I forgot about Gengar's Body, I'll admit, but Gallade can KO another if I get tails. PLOX will likely tech like it does today, so Breloom + Moonlight will likely be in the deck = Bye-bye Gengar. That's 3 Gengars down, and you likely don't have any more left. And that's IF I get 3 Tails, which won't likely happen.

Deoxys Psycho Boost does OHKO a Gardy. You're right. Gardy is terrible because it can be OHKO'd. Seriously, guess what else can OHKO it in this format:
Breloom + Moonlight
Gallade
Espeon + Lake Boundary
Gardevoir + Lake Boundary
Gallade
Mismagius
Banette
And a whole lot more. And guess what? Gardy is the BDIF.

Mewtwo Lv.X is faster. Okay. 2 Mewtwos get KO'd = Your Mewtwo deck goes bye-bye.

Lol, Salamence needs 2 different types of Energy to use it's attack - and do you think I'd actually Bench a Gallade when I see Salamence in play? No. I'm just going to be Psyhic Locking you while you try to get the Energy onto Salamence.

Hm... yes... Drapion can Triple Poison from the Bench WITH A FLIP. That's... amazing. XD

Now, this isn't a topic about what would happen if DRE was reprinted. This is a topic about Drapion Lv.X. I only mentioned DRE reprint because we don't know what's going to happen when Drapion Lv.X comes out. An amazingly-broken Psychic card could be out by then, and Drapion Lv.X would be about as playable as Darkrai Lv.X is this format as an attacker.

 

[ShinySwampert]

Drapion can triple Poison from the Bench... with a coin flip. That's not that great... triple poison is fine, but it's easily cured by Retreating or Warping.

Psychic Lock doesn't auto-win against PLOX. Mesprit has that as a Power... which you can only use when you play it from your hand. Gardevoir OHKOs everything in AMU unless they have Snowpoint in play with DRE. And Moonlight Stadium takes out Snowpoint.

I can use your own Supporters. I won't hesitate to Cosmic Power a Bebe's Search away, like most decks. I can clear out around 3 Supporters a turn from my hand - and that's not even counting and regular Trainers or Stadiums in my hand! While you are trying to KO a Benched Gardy, I'm Psychic Locking you, preventing you from getting more Gengars set up or at least making it harder, and Wagering, making my hand less likely have Trainers is I lose! If you lose... well, you're stuck with a 3 card hand. I forgot about Gengar's Body, I'll admit, but Gallade can KO another if I get tails. PLOX will likely tech like it does today, so Breloom + Moonlight will likely be in the deck = Bye-bye Gengar. That's 3 Gengars down, and you likely don't have any more left. And that's IF I get 3 Tails, which won't likely happen.

Deoxys Psycho Boost does OHKO a Gardy. You're right. Gardy is terrible because it can be OHKO'd. Seriously, guess what else can OHKO it in this format:
Breloom + Moonlight
Gallade
Espeon + Lake Boundary
Gardevoir + Lake Boundary
Gallade
Mismagius
Banette
And a whole lot more. And guess what? Gardy is the BDIF.

Mewtwo Lv.X is faster. Okay. 2 Mewtwos get KO'd = Your Mewtwo deck goes bye-bye.

Lol, Salamence needs 2 different types of Energy to use it's attack - and do you think I'd actually Bench a Gallade when I see Salamence in play? No. I'm just going to be Psyhic Locking you while you try to get the Energy onto Salamence.

Hm... yes... Drapion can Triple Poison from the Bench WITH A FLIP. That's... amazing. XD

Now, this isn't a topic about what would happen if DRE was reprinted. This is a topic about Drapion Lv.X. I only mentioned DRE reprint because we don't know what's going to happen when Drapion Lv.X comes out. An amazingly-broken Psychic card could be out by then, and Drapion Lv.X would be about as playable as Darkrai Lv.X is this format as an attacker.

Azelf Lv.X removes all weakness. Gardie isn't OHKOing any of the Lv.X's

You cosmic power away Bebe, and possibly draw into another supporter. Won't help you that much. If you're successful it's only -30. There are still probably 10 other cards in your hand, 40%of which are probably Trainers Supporters or Stadiums. That's 120.

First off, Gastly stops you from using Rare Candy. So T2 Gallade/Gardevoir is impossible. Gardevoir will not be on the bench Telepassing or active Psychic Locking. It will be KOed after 2 Shadow Looms or 1 Poltergeist. Claydol is KOed so you're not Comsmic powering anything away. If you do manage to get out Gallade, it might kill 1 Gengar, and possibly kill itself. The next Gengar will OHKO it with Poltergeist. If Gallade got hit with a 2 Trainer Poltergeist, it has 40 HP left. That means Gastly can come off the Bench and KO it.

You must be forgetting that Psycho Cut loses power after a KO. Gengar is a three prize flip. That means you will OHKO 2 Gengars, max, and there's a 75 percent chance that your Gallade will be KOed if you KO 2 Gengars. The Gengars will then proceed to run over your Gardevoirs. Breloom? Good luck getting it out with no Gardevoirs. Even then, who says my deck is all Psychic? After 3 Gengars, I'll have no more? What? Is Night Maintenence getting rotated?

Long story short, if Gengar was in today's format, it would own Plox.

Oh no! My 2 Mewtwos are gone. I guess I lose. WAIT. I have Night Maintenence! And most likely, I run more Pokemon than just a 2-2 Mewtwo LV.X line in my deck! I've got a chance!

Man you're right about Salamence tho... It's so hard to find provide 2 Energy types... without DRE. So you'd risk losing the game by using Gardevoir's wimpy 50-60 + lock? That takes 3 hits to knock off all 140 of Sally's HP. Salamence wins that matchup.

Yeah, Gardie is great now. In the future, it will just be good. It's time is passing.

Gardevior and Gallade wins mostly because of stall, not because of it's total superiority. Otherwise, Empozong or Beedrill would pwn them almost it in the same manner that Gengar would.

Anyway. Retreating can mess up Drapion's Poison. But retreating sucks. And Drapion can do it every turn. Most people only play 1 or 2 warp point. The prospect of a possible free 30 at any time + a few not too shabby attacks is good. Worth using, on the bench, or as an attacker.

An amazingly broken psychic type? That's about as likely as DRE coming back. The card has potential man. You're saying that it doesn't in lieu of what could possibly be printed in the future. That doesn't make sense.

 

[Prime]

Gengar turn 2 without DRE beats Gallade with DRE turn 2. Gastly stops him from even seeing the field on turn 2.

Huh? How can Gengar OHKO Gallade on turn 2? Gengar places damage counters, so it'd do a BIG 30 damage to Gallade. Oh, you meant with it's Poke-Power that triggers when it gets KO'd. That isn't going to occur anyways, unless you Rare Candy Gengar on your first turn.

No need to God Blast turn 2. AMU disrupts you turn 1. Gallade knocking out one of the Pixies isn't a big deal, not to mention that if (Snowpoint is in play, he flips two to do so,) and most likely, he'll pay for it.

Hmm. Let's see what AMU can do in their first turn. Azelf (LA) can do 20 and stop them from retreating next turn, which wouldn't at all. Azelf (MT) can definitely mess up turn 2 Gallade by disabling the opponent's ability to lay special energy. Mesprit (LA) can't do anything turn 1 since it's only attack takes PP. Mesprit (MT) is the same thing. Uxie (LA) can hit for 20 and pick itself up from the field. Not amazing. Uxie (MT) just does small damage.

So in those cases, only Azelf MT can disrupt a turn-2 Gallade+DRE. That's IF you run it. And even if you do run it, out of all your basics, you might not even start with it, or be able to get it active in your one turn to use it's attack. The way I see it, it can disrupt a T2 Gallade, but not consistently.

The only reason I posted my comment about Gallade was that you commented that Plox with DRE gets pwned by AMU. Now, Plox has a definite weakness to AMU, but no deck in this format or next format can match the damage output and KO'ing ability for as little resources that Plox has. Gardevior lv.X for DRE can OHKO anything, Gallade for 1 energy and a DRE can OHKO any real threat. You won't find that damage-resource ratio in any deck this format or next.

Oh, and your not going to get Snowpoint Temple out T1 in 75% of your games.

edit: And let me clarify that I'm not saying turn-2 Gallade with DRE is going to happen that often. it's just, when it does happen, it's very hard to win.

 

[G-Dog4377]

You cosmic power away Bebe, and possibly draw into another supporter. Won't help you that much. If you're successful it's only -30. There are still probably 10 other cards in your hand, 40%of which are probably Trainers Supporters or Stadiums. That's 120.

You just said the opponent used Cosmic Power. He/she wouldn't have more than 6 cards unless he/she used some Supporter to get more cards in his/her hand. That is still only 60 according to your 40% estimation.

 

[ShinySwampert]

Huh? How can Gengar OHKO Gallade on turn 2? Gengar places damage counters, so it'd do a BIG 30 damage to Gallade. Oh, you meant with it's Poke-Power that triggers when it gets KO'd. That isn't going to occur anyways, unless you Rare Candy Gengar on your first turn.



Hmm. Let's see what AMU can do in their first turn. Azelf (LA) can do 20 and stop them from retreating next turn, which wouldn't at all. Azelf (MT) can definitely mess up turn 2 Gallade by disabling the opponent's ability to lay special energy. Mesprit (LA) can't do anything turn 1 since it's only attack takes PP. Mesprit (MT) is the same thing. Uxie (LA) can hit for 20 and pick itself up from the field. Not amazing. Uxie (MT) just does small damage.

So in those cases, only Azelf MT can disrupt a turn-2 Gallade+DRE. That's IF you run it. And even if you do run it, out of all your basics, you might not even start with it, or be able to get it active in your one turn to use it's attack. The way I see it, it can disrupt a T2 Gallade, but not consistently.

The only reason I posted my comment about Gallade was that you commented that Plox with DRE gets pwned by AMU. Now, Plox has a definite weakness to AMU, but no deck in this format or next format can match the damage output and KO'ing ability for as little resources that Plox has. Gardevior lv.X for DRE can OHKO anything, Gallade for 1 energy and a DRE can OHKO any real threat. You won't find that damage-resource ratio in any deck this format or next.

Oh, and your not going to get Snowpoint Temple out T1 in 75% of your games.

edit: And let me clarify that I'm not saying turn-2 Gallade with DRE is going to happen that often. it's just, when it does happen, it's very hard to win.

Gengar IFDS has a 2 Energy attack that does 30x the number of Trainers, Supporters, and Stadiums in your hand, which, on turn 2, is likely to be a lot. Especially if I used Blackout with my Gastly on turn 1, making turn 2 Gallade impossible for you, and keeping that Rare Candy is stuck in your hand.

Uxie MT does 30+ Sleep for 1 Energy, and stops you from Psycho Cutting next turn if you KO it. As you said Azelf stops DRE. Gallade might OHKO twice before it's taken down. T-2 Gallade doesn't come out consistently. Getting out Azelf MT or Uxie MT isn't hard, using Roseanne or the soon to be reprinted Great Ball, and with Mesprit MT you retreat for free. Why wouldn't you use the MT sprites? They're way better attackers than the LA ones. The only LA sprite I'd consider running more than 1 of is Mesprit.

Gardevior Lv.X is what puts the deck over AMU in terms of OHKOing power. But it goes down to AMU too.

You just said the opponent used Cosmic Power. He/she wouldn't have more than 6 cards unless he/she used some Supporter to get more cards in his/her hand. That is still only 60 according to your 40% estimation.

You can use Cosmic Power with 15 cards in your hand. You just can't draw. If you couldn't use cosmic power with 6 or more cards, you'd be in even more trouble vs. Gengar.