prodigal_fanboy
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Yes, not all decks play at the same tempo.
Worlds 2009 In Review
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Yes, not all decks play at the same tempo.
No one said anything like that.
@mrmeches: If asked for time, the players are told "less than 20" or "more than 20".
Time for Pain
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mcoppel seemed to have said it with the use of chess clocks. At least how I understand it.
Ah. Thought you were referring to one of the previous posts.
Darkelf1313
New Member
@ DarthPika:
People who have to be told every other turn by a judge that they are taking too long and need to move along with their turns should not dare to say that they don't stall. I used to find you mildly amusing, but by that previous statement, you have proven you are a sore loser and a liar. my turns took maybe a fourth of the time yours did, and your reaction when you realized that you were wrong about the sudden death proved that in fact stalling to force that was in fact a part of your strategy in that game.
Our game aside, I have judged tournaments where you have been present and have watched you stall in every single game, including against your own brother.
To Everyone:
It is a touchy issue, to be certain. Everyone on this thread has prolly been stalled out at least once by someone. Sometimes it is intentional, othertimes not. But I agree there needs to be some pretty set in stone guidelines on the issue. It would certainly be alot easier to inforce such rules as a judge. They are somewhat subjective now and therefore open to interpretation. But at the same time, it will be hard to reach a consensus for a rule that will make the majority of players and judges happy. Some decks are very invloved and simply take longer to play, because they do alot. I have always liked the idea of setting a certain amount of time per turn action, but that is often difficult to inforce unless the game is being "puppy guarded" by a judge who can count that amount of time.
People who have to be told every other turn by a judge that they are taking too long and need to move along with their turns should not dare to say that they don't stall. I used to find you mildly amusing, but by that previous statement, you have proven you are a sore loser and a liar. my turns took maybe a fourth of the time yours did, and your reaction when you realized that you were wrong about the sudden death proved that in fact stalling to force that was in fact a part of your strategy in that game.
Our game aside, I have judged tournaments where you have been present and have watched you stall in every single game, including against your own brother.
To Everyone:
It is a touchy issue, to be certain. Everyone on this thread has prolly been stalled out at least once by someone. Sometimes it is intentional, othertimes not. But I agree there needs to be some pretty set in stone guidelines on the issue. It would certainly be alot easier to inforce such rules as a judge. They are somewhat subjective now and therefore open to interpretation. But at the same time, it will be hard to reach a consensus for a rule that will make the majority of players and judges happy. Some decks are very invloved and simply take longer to play, because they do alot. I have always liked the idea of setting a certain amount of time per turn action, but that is often difficult to inforce unless the game is being "puppy guarded" by a judge who can count that amount of time.
The Dark Toxicroak
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Why do you need a watch during the game..... unless your planning on dropping at a certain time. At least without watches involved timing someone out involves some skill and not just looking at your watch when the match starts and knowing when it ends.
If you think your arm looks bare and feels weird then wear a wristband or cover your watch.
If you think your arm looks bare and feels weird then wear a wristband or cover your watch.
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NoPoke
Active Member
Players use a watch BECAUSE it is a timed game. Time is a factor in strategic planning.
Best 2/3 the key question is often can I turn this around in the remaining time or do I concede now.
In single games players should be selecting the strategy that maximizes the chance of winning. Time matters here too. An approach that may succeed with three minutes remaining may be a guaranteed loss with ten minutes left.
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A chess clock approach could be made to work for an online game where it is viable to split the time for playing warp point etc between the two players and shuffles take a fixed amount of time (milliseconds!) But they can never be expected to work properly between live players at a table.
Best 2/3 the key question is often can I turn this around in the remaining time or do I concede now.
In single games players should be selecting the strategy that maximizes the chance of winning. Time matters here too. An approach that may succeed with three minutes remaining may be a guaranteed loss with ten minutes left.
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A chess clock approach could be made to work for an online game where it is viable to split the time for playing warp point etc between the two players and shuffles take a fixed amount of time (milliseconds!) But they can never be expected to work properly between live players at a table.
You obviously don't understand the use of a chess clock or timer. It's not about who plays the fastest. It is about each player having the same amount of set time to use. You can use all your time how you want, stall or not, but if your total time runs out then you loose.
If both players are playing very slow, then yes it will come down to who plays a little faster, but how often is it both players are trying to stall out there time?
The other thing is there would never be a tie or playoff for a game, there would always be a winner, as the person who doesn't manage time right would loose if it came to a time out.
It works for games that are much more thought process then pokemon.
meganium45
Active Member
And as a judge what did you do? What steps did you take?
Did you inform the head judge? Did you issue a warning?
Accusing a player of stalling is one of the most difficult calls for a judge to make.
Doing it correctly really separates the judges.
If you simply allowed him to do it, as a judge, then there are other questions that need to be asked.
Vince
DarthPika
New Member
Then why didn't you call it? Either I wasn't stalling, or your a horrible judge for never calling it. :/
Please don't post false information about me again. I have never had ANY judge have a problem with my pace of play. Please don't post false info about me again. Thank you.
Prof Clay
New Member
refering to previous
the_sniper
New Member
Just to put this in, I always have a very reasonable pace of play and take moderate portions of time to finish my turns. It's very rare that I ever have a game go to time, and when it does I never game the situation. I remember a particular instance last year at Fall Battle Roads where I was playing Weavile/Dragonite (such a funny deck) and played against a Machamp in Swiss. The game very nearly went to time (neither of us knew that until after). He had 1 prize left and I had 2, however his field was very disabled and chances of him ever taking that last prize were not good at all. He scooped five seconds before time was called. If he had simply waited five more seconds, he would've won the round.
Just showing you guys that there are good people out there who don't utilize time management in a cutthroat play2win style (which I completely sympathize with; I just don't take Pokemon so seriously that I'm willing to do whatever it takes within the rules to win).
Just showing you guys that there are good people out there who don't utilize time management in a cutthroat play2win style (which I completely sympathize with; I just don't take Pokemon so seriously that I'm willing to do whatever it takes within the rules to win).
ShadowCard
Active Member
If I recall correctly, that was a tier 1 event and you were given leeway because the judges were nice. Perhaps the judges at the MD SC were giving you the benefit of the doubt as well in your game against Leah.
I'll make a note that you find nice judges a slop of an event :thumb:
Darkelf1313
New Member
Shadowcard said it correctly with the leeway issues, however, I find that better than an official penalty is debunking their strategy by granting time extentions when I see someone stalling. If you think you are going to win it in those last 30 seconds or so, and slow play accordingly, having an extra 2 minutes added to that clock throws off your stall tactic, and if a game is close enough, can make the difference.
If my judging will be questioned because I tried to be nice by simply reminding a player that they need to hurry along, or telling them that they need to stop trying to distract their opponent, then so be it. I will start issuing officially documented penalties to start off with, rather than try to be understanding as I have done in the past. That seems to be what you are getting at.
Just because I have never documented a penalty against him for stalling does not mean that he was not verbally warned, or given time extentions by myself and other judges on NUMEROUS occasions.
IMO, a time extention for slow play/stalling should never be used unless one or both of the players are tagged with penaltues.
I agree that giving a verbal prompt is the correct 1st salvo in the battle ag'st slow play. To wait till the end of the game, w/o a penalty and then drop a time extention.....probably not the best procedure.
Keith
DarthPika
New Member
Please stop posting untrue things about me. The ONLY time I've ever had a judge issue a time extension against me was that one battle against John, for which I have apologized several times.
Other than that, I have NEVER had an opponent or judge have any problem with my pace of play. For the most part, if my opponent asks if we can speed up the game, I'm more than happy to. Look, please get over it. I called you out on stalling, and am not alone in the opinion that you are a staller and rusher. It's possible that you don't even realize you're doing it. I don't think you realize quite how "into" the game you get. I really don't care if it's not intentional. I'm really sick of all the drama. Please stop. Thank you.
ShadowCard
Active Member
Calling that out really doesn't get either of you anywhere. She is not alone in the opinion that you are a staller. (not speaking for myself, just looking at the previous posts in this thread)
DarthPika, no where has Darkelf said that multiple stalling penalties have been applied to you. No one is asserting that.
My daughter is six we often practice with a chess clock. She LOVES it. I'm not sure what is complicated? Each player hit the button after each turn and tries to win before their time expires
We have taken it to league and other kids have fun with it. Not sure if I would advocate adopting its use... but "kids" don't seem to find it too complex (if that is a criteria for adoption).
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