Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Worlds 2009 In Review

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I've got to agree with Gengar here.

I'm definitely no fan of slow play and stalling and such, and I'd love for there to be no time announcements, but banning watches and phones and such isn't a good idea at all.

The conversation that's going on here is great, and I support a lot of it. :D
 
Time for Pain said:
He also stalled against a very good friend of mine in top cut (Leah H) in game 2 at MD states. They were tied on prizes (I think they both had 4 prizes left) and he took a 5 min turn to send the game to SD. Too bad he didn't know the rule about someone having to take 4 prizes in order to make game 2 count. Leah on the other hand knew this rule and didn't care that he stalled since she knew that she would take the match for winning game 1.
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To get the facts of the situation; did you see him stall, or did she tell you he stalled her?
 
I think I see how this works . . .

If I do it, then it's good time management.

If someone does it to me, they are stalling.

I agree with the no watches thing. Just play the game out as well as you can for 40 minutes and accept that if you can't win in that time, then you probably don't deserve to.
 
Ban watches? Not going to fix the issue.

  • It is a timed game
  • Players win and lose on time
  • A win on Time is a legitimate win.
  • Defensive PLAY is allowed, more than that it should not be castigated or subject to accusations that a player lacks honour or has poor ethics.
Slowing down the pace of play however is not allowed. That never has been a legitimate strategy is not currently a legitimate strategy and isn't likely to be in the near future.
 
I just know IÄll bring a watch with me for future tournaments, the game just gets longer and longer (unless you get donked), I lost a game at worlds that I had definitly won just because I didnt have a watch and timeout got called on my opponents turn.

You cant blame the players to adjust to something that is such an important part of playing, it doesnt work :/
 
kwisdumb said:
I've got to agree with Gengar here.

I'm definitely no fan of slow play and stalling and such, and I'd love for there to be no time announcements, but banning watches and phones and such isn't a good idea at all.

The conversation that's going on here is great, and I support a lot of it. :D
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Phones are already not allowed out or on the table :thumb:

@John,

Had to nudge you a bit there buddy! You know there is much love... jeez your the Dad of all Pokemon Dads this year, enjoy it!!

@Pop,

So have you don the NO call on time as well? Just "You may Begin" and "TIME"? If so, how was it handled when players requested the amount of time left??

OT....

This is great discussion everyone! It allows Players and Judges to discuss how they interpret timing issues in a positive way. Some players just don't get the ENJOYMENT of the game because of "playing the clock"... oh sorry, Time Management. The game is so much fun when it does become a chess match of taking all 6!

Vince, Keith, et all... if you have done the 2 calls as mentioned above, when and what Tournaments.. League only or Premieres?

Fish
 
NoPoke said:
Ban watches? Not going to fix the issue.
  • It is a timed game
  • Players win and lose on time
  • A win on Time is a legitimate win.
  • Defensive PLAY is allowed, more than that it should not be castigated or subject to accusations that a player lacks honour or has poor ethics.
Slowing down the pace of play however is not allowed. That never has been a legitimate strategy is not currently a legitimate strategy and isn't likely to be in the near future.
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THIS is what I play by. I also agree 100% with slowing down the pace of play, as I really dislike it when someone does this.

I'm sorry if you people dislike that games will come to time, but it happens. If you're not going to acknowledge this and play out your games like it's going to be a complete game, that's your problem not mine. Please don't say that those of us who are aware of the time lack ethics or are bad people or something equally stupid. If I'm taking advantage of a way to win that's by the rules, you shouldn't have a problem with it.

@ prodigal_fanboy, he never saw the actual match. He's only repeating what she said to him. For the record, I was the one who got stalled out in that match. I don't want to derail the thread with this, so if you have any other questions, please contact me via PM/IM.
 
NoPoke said:
Ban watches? Not going to fix the issue.

  • It is a timed game
  • Players win and lose on time
  • A win on Time is a legitimate win.
  • Defensive PLAY is allowed, more than that it should not be castigated or subject to accusations that a player lacks honour or has poor ethics.
Slowing down the pace of play however is not allowed. That never has been a legitimate strategy is not currently a legitimate strategy and isn't likely to be in the near future.
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This sums it up perfectly... No Poke is a master of the straightforward logical presentation. ANYONE who doesn't understand this needs to get a grip. Contrary to what I've read here this IS NOT A FIRST TO SIX PRIZES FORMAT. It is one of three? win conditions...It is slow play that is the issue here not "clock management"....Keeping each players turns at a reasonable pace is what needs to be addressed... We are not going to untimed games - just not happening....The tricky part for judges is to insure this fine line is not crossed and why judging in general does not get the respect it deserves.. these are tough decisions....Fulop brings up great points on the subtleties that can affect a players play and how "stalling" in one persons eye may not truly define what is happening based on the game state. If I have a 3 prize lead and over half of the game is over, is it stalling to shove up dialga and then poketurn it every other turn thereafter because I'm playing a psychic deck? C'mon that's just smart LOL. I'm for anything that ensures a fair match and encourages good sportsmanship - not these silly notions that "playing with the lead" is somehow a cheap win. I don't want a game that operates at some warped idea of fair combat- like two armies lined up each getting a turn to fire their guns ala the Revolutionary war. I want to be able to use a multitude of legal strategies to insure victory. Sorry, all of these cheap win comments got me a litte inflamed. For a succint recap and to bring this whole rambling back to point - READ NO POKE'S POST!
 
The Dark Toxicroak said:
I always thought you weren't allowed to wear a watch and I am pretty sure no one does where I play
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I've never heard of watches not being allowed, but if I'm judging and I see you timing your own actions or looking at your watch obsessively, You better believe I'm going to be watching you game much closer.

As a judge this issue is tough to deal with. I've seen genuine STALLING, and I've seen people who play very methodically and have slow action times. Stalling is not difficult to call, but in Top Cut at States, it's tough to interrupt a player's thought process with a "I must prompt an action." but it has to be done.

As a player, this is the most frustrating way to lose. At Autumn Battle Roads last year we saw a horrible rash of "new players" asking more experienced players to "bear with" them. Everyone I know was stalled out by this tactic at at least one Battle Road, and because we promote Spirit of the Game so much, we all missed the opportunity to call a judge.

It's unfortunate that time is a necessary deciding factor.
 
IMO, we saw better matches at Worlds and Nats this year bc the clock wasn't splashed up on the wall for all to see. I would be in favor of a rule that says all timing devices must be put away during a match, watches included! A watch can go into a pocket, backpack, purse (for the ladies), wherever.....just not on the wrist, That way, everyone is one the same level. (Not everyone owns/wears a watch during tourneys)

I normally make one time call in swiss at sanctioned events....around the halfway point. I may try to do a start and end only during BRs. The only downside to this will be the sample size will be smallish. May not get a good handle on how it is handled by the players. At most of my BRs, the high majority of the matches are over before time anyway.

IMO, no judge should ever tell any player how much time exactly is remaining. I train my staffs to state "Less than ....insert last time check). The only times a player should know exactly how much time remains is at the start (40 mins DUH) and if they have a time extention....it gets marked on the match slip.....when time is called, they know they have X mins remaining with X being the ext.

Keith
 
Dunno but IMO it doesnt work out this way. Time sadly is a big part of this game, it decides a lot of games and still players are expected to act like it didnt exist?
 
Yoshi- said:
Dunno but IMO it doesnt work out this way. Time sadly is a big part of this game, it decides a lot of games and still players are expected to act like it didnt exist?
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And why should it be a big part of the game? Does any player in the whole Pokemon TCG world build a deck based around taking *some* prizes and waiting time out, or are they built with the intention to take all 6 prizes?
 
I do calls at 20 minutes (sometimes about 20 minutes, if too many people are sleeping at the wheel) and at time.

Questions are answered "more than 20 minutes" and "less than 20 minutes"

Can't wait to see you guys again!

Vince
 
Prime said:
It'd be interesting to see how game play would change if TPCi decided to add a +turns to the end of the game. This would make it harder to win on time, as it'd give each player one or two more turns, with no time limit.
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meganium45 said:
I would be against the addition of additional turns unless we reduced the round times back to 30 minutes.
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I seem to remember hearing that under the Japanese rules, if time expires on a player's turn, the opponent gets one more turn. The amount of time this would add per round at large events is likely negligible, and it would absolutely increase play pace toward the end of games. Evidently a lot of players want to have the last turn, so in most situations they'll play faster to keep time from running out on their turn. I'm sure there are some degenerate cases where that doesn't hold true, but it seems like a definite improvement at minimal cost.
 
Pablo said:
And why should it be a big part of the game? Does any player in the whole Pokemon TCG world build a deck based around taking *some* prizes and waiting time out, or are they built with the intention to take all 6 prizes?
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Even when building your deck players sometimes dont use certain decks because they're no good in timeout situations.
And remember Empoleon Worlds 08 30/40 minutes ;)?

it IS a big part of the game, a player WILL adjust when he knows time is running out, but what is he supposed to do?
 
the_sniper said:
I 100% agree Jay. That is why you ban all forms of keeping time( watches, timers, cell phones, etc.)
from the table ( play area). I believe some of these devices are already not allowed.

This way nobody has a way to know how much time is left. And , again, this would make "clock management" ( I hate the phrase btw) much more difficult.

If you wear a watch or use a device to keep time in a game you get punished accordingly.Just put it in the floor rules.
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I would hate to see watches banned from tournaments. My wrist feels naked without it! I don't typically look at it during a match, but I've always worn a watch, no matter what.
 
The only way time can be fixed in a game like this is to start using chess timers and give each player exactly 1/2 the time. Don't go saying it's to hard to figure out chess timers either because I have taught 6 year olds to play competitive chess with timers. You run out of time before your opponent does and you lose, end of time discussions.
 
So if your opponent makes a quick play taking about 30 sec, and you make a play fairly quickly but take about 1 min 30 sec. If the game goes to time you lose because you took a min more cause your opponent played fast? I don't like that.
 
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