Kayle
Active Member
Seconded - if you're going to try to get 4-6 Gyarados out, it's rather moot when they're taking 2 prizes for each one they KO and they can KO one 50% of the time you KO them.
Expert Belt players beware, Gengar is still potent.
What Will Be Good For City's?
- Thread starter i like burdn of a day
- Start date
Seconded - if you're going to try to get 4-6 Gyarados out, it's rather moot when they're taking 2 prizes for each one they KO and they can KO one 50% of the time you KO them.
Expert Belt players beware, Gengar is still potent.
The Dark Toxicroak
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=
If you take the risk of Koing a Gengar while having expert belt and heads is flipped they will pitchdark you. You will have no way of doing anything most likely other then a sableye KO which then basically gives them a free KO.
Another thing that could happen is they could take 2 prizes off your expert belt and wager or lookers either way if you put them in a situation where they are in the lead they will take a huge advantage off it.
But if tails is flipped then good for you. I know I would rather do 90 then KO with bats then do 110 and risk the game because of it.
Another thing that could happen is they could take 2 prizes off your expert belt and wager or lookers either way if you put them in a situation where they are in the lead they will take a huge advantage off it.
But if tails is flipped then good for you. I know I would rather do 90 then KO with bats then do 110 and risk the game because of it.
SalamenceGreat
New Member
Well, I will be playing Salamence for Cities.
I just got home from league today and I had a really lucky/good run.
Round 1
VS: Blaziken FB Deck
From the very start I knew he was playing this deck and I thought it would blow me away from its speed advantage.
I was half right.
Right out of the gate he had a Blaze X out. He Scored 3 prizes one after the other early on. (just what you would expect)
However, by his third prize, I now had a salamence ready. I gave it an expert belt and started on my second.
Now the game was mine. To kill my Sally X with Belt, it would take 3 hits from Jet Shoot. And with Queen out, it made it even harder. It didnt matter if he attacked with Jet Shoot or not, I KO'd him in one attack each time. After his third prize, he didnt not take anymore of them. Nor was he able to KO my Sally X.
1-0
Round 2:
VS Mechamp
Another good match was expected here. Mechamp is indeed faster, however, its awesomeness is in its "take out" attack which has no effect on sally. Its made even worse with resistance on my part. My SF sally was able to run them down in 1 attack. ( i run bucks training in my deck )
This was a closer game.
2-0
Round 3:
VS Gengar
This match up had me nervous as its fainting spell is a pain.
He had a really slow start so I had an easy time keeping up and setting up. I used my SW sally here as direct hit can avoid that resistance.
Very close game.
3-0
Round 4:
VS Shuppet Donk
I got lucky and started with a Spiritomb. Nuf said.
I had 2 bagon on my bench; one with 3 energy, the other with 2. No prizes had been taken yet as he was trainer locked. However, I was never able to use "Darkness Grace" as his shuppet put me to sleep and I NEVER woke up.....
Yet i was able to get a claydol out too. It was the start of my turn; I had sally, rare candy, expert belt and some other stuff in my hand and my Dad showed up. I had to go and give up.
The odds of me winning were about 65-75%. I have beaten that deck before with sally.
3-1
Finish: 3-1
Closing notes: I don't know why other people have so much problems with sally. It works really well for me. I CAN beat SP decks it seems. I CAN keep up with most decks.
The only deck I cannot beat is Gyarados.
If you chose not to belive my report from my tourny, thats fine, but I am not lying.
I just got home from league today and I had a really lucky/good run.
Round 1
VS: Blaziken FB Deck
From the very start I knew he was playing this deck and I thought it would blow me away from its speed advantage.
I was half right.
Right out of the gate he had a Blaze X out. He Scored 3 prizes one after the other early on. (just what you would expect)
However, by his third prize, I now had a salamence ready. I gave it an expert belt and started on my second.
Now the game was mine. To kill my Sally X with Belt, it would take 3 hits from Jet Shoot. And with Queen out, it made it even harder. It didnt matter if he attacked with Jet Shoot or not, I KO'd him in one attack each time. After his third prize, he didnt not take anymore of them. Nor was he able to KO my Sally X.
1-0
Round 2:
VS Mechamp
Another good match was expected here. Mechamp is indeed faster, however, its awesomeness is in its "take out" attack which has no effect on sally. Its made even worse with resistance on my part. My SF sally was able to run them down in 1 attack. ( i run bucks training in my deck )
This was a closer game.
2-0
Round 3:
VS Gengar
This match up had me nervous as its fainting spell is a pain.
He had a really slow start so I had an easy time keeping up and setting up. I used my SW sally here as direct hit can avoid that resistance.
Very close game.
3-0
Round 4:
VS Shuppet Donk
I got lucky and started with a Spiritomb. Nuf said.
I had 2 bagon on my bench; one with 3 energy, the other with 2. No prizes had been taken yet as he was trainer locked. However, I was never able to use "Darkness Grace" as his shuppet put me to sleep and I NEVER woke up.....
Yet i was able to get a claydol out too. It was the start of my turn; I had sally, rare candy, expert belt and some other stuff in my hand and my Dad showed up. I had to go and give up.
The odds of me winning were about 65-75%. I have beaten that deck before with sally.
3-1
Finish: 3-1
Closing notes: I don't know why other people have so much problems with sally. It works really well for me. I CAN beat SP decks it seems. I CAN keep up with most decks.
The only deck I cannot beat is Gyarados.
If you chose not to belive my report from my tourny, thats fine, but I am not lying.
Ch0ncey is Pr0
New Member
Decks to watch out for will be pretty much the same as BRs
Flychamp
Flytrap
Mother Gengar
Beedrill
Gyarados
Blazeray/Luxape
Legos/Palkia lock
Kingdra
other random Tier 2 decks will probably win a few.
Flychamp
Flytrap
Mother Gengar
Beedrill
Gyarados
Blazeray/Luxape
Legos/Palkia lock
Kingdra
other random Tier 2 decks will probably win a few.
Kayle
Active Member
It's not that we're debating your report, it's that we don't think your results are going to hold true on a larger scale for Salamence's success.
What it sounds like you're doing is semi-tanking with 'Mence. I could imagine that working, though it seems a little clumsy to me. Do you run Uppers? Do you run starters other than Spiritomb? 'Cause that can make a difference.
Let's not turn this into a Salamence thread though. Like it wasn't already >_<. I think Salamence run well could do well, it's just that I don't think anyone knows how to run it quite yet, and we'll start figuring it out as people post their 'Mence reports from BRs.
SalamenceGreat
New Member
I agree with you. But thats just it, most people dont want to run salamence so they will have nothing to report.... lol
In fact, I am the ONLY person in my area who plays it.
Yes, I run 1 spiritomb (tech for shuppet) and 2 Sableye (overeager). Usually, I end up with one of those 3 at the start. If not, I turn 1 rossanes for the sableye. My set up speed is fairly consistant.
However, i have one statment you all SHOULD agree with;
"If ANY salamence deck makes top cut at cities, it will be a huge upset." No one is expecting it to happen.
In fact, I am the ONLY person in my area who plays it.
Yes, I run 1 spiritomb (tech for shuppet) and 2 Sableye (overeager). Usually, I end up with one of those 3 at the start. If not, I turn 1 rossanes for the sableye. My set up speed is fairly consistant.
However, i have one statment you all SHOULD agree with;
"If ANY salamence deck makes top cut at cities, it will be a huge upset." No one is expecting it to happen.
baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
Nope, I disagree. I don't think Sally is THAT much of an underdog deck. There are so many Citys that I think it will get a few top cuts, depending on the area and the age division. It might even pick up a win or two if it gets lucky with pairings.
Sally is not a terrible deck. I just think that, if you are going into a tournament with the intention of winning it, then Sally is not the very best choice you can make.
SalamenceGreat
New Member
Sure it is! A win is a win. Period.
Besides, not many people will go to a city event with a "fun" deck. You go there to win. Meaning your will bring a good deck.
So if you beat those good decks, then your deck must be pretty good. ect.
No, those wins do matter.
bullados
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?
Sally, read again what Jay's saying. Top Cut =\= Win. Yes, a win at pretty much any venue is significant. Depending on the venue, a T2 is probably significant as well. But, with the sheer number of City Championships out there (by my count, somewhere around 280), simply getting Top Cut isn't particularly significant. You've got to Top Cut and then Win something. This is different from States and Regionals, where simply getting Top Cut is enough in most cases due to the relatively smaller number of events during those cycles (less than 65, depending on how many SPTs there are).
No its not, like Bullados say there is 280 some. And some very low competive areas. Read the winners and there always a few of those "how did that top cut decks" Everybody and there mom (mine has
) has top cut a cities. Top Cutting or even winning a cities won't instantly shoot a deck to teir 1. Unless wins multible cities in multible areas. What do you think is going to happen Salamence wins a cities somewhere and all of Sudden its BDIF. You have to be realistic. IMO the deck is solid, it has everything going for it to be a big deck (a slightly better base Sally would be nice) or a better forum of Energy Acceleraltion (if you would give Sally a Firestarter/extra drop power it would be tier 1) instead of this where it needs another stage 1 benched to be reliable. I will almost guareente this thing will top mulitble cities and even win a few. However I don't think it will do it big competive areas.
A win is a win. I'll agree with this, back in the day of Gym Challenges winning a 15 person Gym Challenge and winning an 80 person Gym Challenge both got you a trip to Worlds. However I'll disagree with the period part. Winning a small/non competive cities is not the same as winning one in Flordia or California. I agree people will bring there best deck this is back to competive vrs non competive areas. Player A's best deck might be a well built Salamence while Player B's best deck might be Scizor/Cherrium or even a modified structure. Look at Cities to see what is good you have to go beyond deck A won a cities. You have to look at where, size, and level of compeition.
I'm not by any means down talking winning a cities or top cutting both are impressive in any area. All i'm trying to say is be realistic in what top cutting a cities means. Winning one or even two cities does not instantly catipult a deck or a player to the top.
TheDarkTwins
Active Member
No its not, like Bullados say there is 280 some. And some very low competive areas. Read the winners and there always a few of those "how did that top cut decks" Everybody and there mom (mine has
Top Cutting or even winning a cities won't instantly shoot a deck to teir 1. Unless wins multible cities in multible areas. What do you think is going to happen Salamence wins a cities somewhere and all of Sudden its BDIF. You have to be realistic. IMO the deck is solid, it has everything going for it to be a big deck (a slightly better base Sally would be nice) or a better forum of Energy Acceleraltion (if you would give Sally a Firestarter/extra drop power it would be tier 1) instead of this where it needs another stage 1 benched to be reliable. I will almost guareente this thing will top mulitble cities and even win a few. However I don't think it will do it big competive areas.
A win is a win. I'll agree with this, back in the day of Gym Challenges winning a 15 person Gym Challenge and winning an 80 person Gym Challenge both got you a trip to Worlds. However I'll disagree with the period part. Winning a small/non competive cities is not the same as winning one in Flordia or California. I agree people will bring there best deck this is back to competive vrs non competive areas. Player A's best deck might be a well built Salamence while Player B's best deck might be Scizor/Cherrium or even a modified structure. Look at Cities to see what is good you have to go beyond deck A won a cities. You have to look at where, size, and level of compeition.
I'm not by any means down talking winning a cities or top cutting both are impressive in any area. All i'm trying to say is be realistic in what top cutting a cities means. Winning one or even two cities does not instantly catipult a deck or a player to the top.
To add what Jay says, is that Matchups in one event can also make a big difference. If you play a deck that isn't very good but beats X deck and you manage to face nothing but that deck you are going to win no matter if the deck is good or bad because you got a matchup that is favorable. Granted it doesn't happen with a lot of events, but with 280+ Cities it is going to happen. I am sure that Salamence, Tangrowth, Dusknoir, and a few others decks that just seem silly (not saying Sally is silly) are going to win an event. Are Tangrowht and Dusknoir good, most likely not due to the huge quantity of Fire and the speed of decks right now, but that is something that most like will happen because someone is going to go to an event and play nothing but Water or something that Dusknoir beats easy.
It happens, but the decks that are going to be the ones to play are going to be the ones that win multiple events every week.
Drew
SalamenceGreat
New Member
Jaeger, its funny you should mention locations size.
This is a fact; "Oregon has the largest pokemon turnout in the USA". FACT.
At the last regionals we had, there were over 400 players. 200+ in the masters alone.
I think the size in our area is good enough. Its larger then florida. lol
This is a fact; "Oregon has the largest pokemon turnout in the USA". FACT.
At the last regionals we had, there were over 400 players. 200+ in the masters alone.
I think the size in our area is good enough. Its larger then florida. lol
IMO there isn't much different for Cities than there was during BR's. #1 lesson: EXPERT BELT. Don't play it wrong, and always expect your opponent to play it. Most wins will probably come through the use and misuse of this card more than anything. Spiritomb is annoying but isn't as great as it was projected to be; if anything play it if your deck hates Power Spray. Despite the number of "playables" in AR they are all pretty much too slow or don't do enough damage even w/ Belt.
Given the importance of Expert Belt, aggressive decks like Gyarados, fire SP/Luxray, Kingdra, Gengar, Beedrill and Machamp seem like pretty good choices. These will give you the best opportunity to take advantage of the opp's Belts, and most of them get way better with Belt attached (except Gengar). Dialga tank is also worth noting because it can beat most of the above w/ Deafen + HQ lock, and Deafen + body lock is really good against most rogues.
I think we'll see less Flygon if fast Belt decks pick up steam. There are simply more consistent options, and in this wide-open field consistency is key.
Given the importance of Expert Belt, aggressive decks like Gyarados, fire SP/Luxray, Kingdra, Gengar, Beedrill and Machamp seem like pretty good choices. These will give you the best opportunity to take advantage of the opp's Belts, and most of them get way better with Belt attached (except Gengar). Dialga tank is also worth noting because it can beat most of the above w/ Deafen + HQ lock, and Deafen + body lock is really good against most rogues.
I think we'll see less Flygon if fast Belt decks pick up steam. There are simply more consistent options, and in this wide-open field consistency is key.
SalamenceGreat
New Member
Salamence can take advantage of opposing expert belts too.
Think about it, Level up, attack, KO, 4 prizes.
Think about it, Level up, attack, KO, 4 prizes.
Donezator
New Member
Some should rename this thread to 'Will Salamence be good for cities'. Anyways, back on topic (sorta) ...
Personally, I haven't tried Salamence yet. However, when it was pulled at Pre the other day, there was a large demand for it and I overheard people discussing that they wanted to use it with Upper/Weavile Charge to speed it up. However, in the match against Flygon it seems that Flygon has the uper edge and has won atleast 60% of games I have witnessed (Most probably due to the amound of techs available to Flygon). On the other hand, I do like the concept of possibly getting 4 KO's with one attack, however getting this set up with the large number of NidoQueen's floating about is very difficult. Best way to play it IMHO is deck out, buy hey I haven't personally tested it yet.
'A win is a win' is true... to an extent. Are you saying that if you beat someone that justed passed out on the table (Bad example I know) is a win? Generally, I only base match-ups of my decks when playing 'good' players, as this will give a more accurate result as to how the deck fares against others. If I just player some noob with a starter deck and asking what a Pokey-man is, then how can I possibly get an accurate match-up from that? My only advice it's good to be confident, but don't be over-confident... It comes back to haunt you later and I can tell you it isn't nice
Donez
Personally, I haven't tried Salamence yet. However, when it was pulled at Pre the other day, there was a large demand for it and I overheard people discussing that they wanted to use it with Upper/Weavile Charge to speed it up. However, in the match against Flygon it seems that Flygon has the uper edge and has won atleast 60% of games I have witnessed (Most probably due to the amound of techs available to Flygon). On the other hand, I do like the concept of possibly getting 4 KO's with one attack, however getting this set up with the large number of NidoQueen's floating about is very difficult. Best way to play it IMHO is deck out, buy hey I haven't personally tested it yet.
'A win is a win' is true... to an extent. Are you saying that if you beat someone that justed passed out on the table (Bad example I know) is a win? Generally, I only base match-ups of my decks when playing 'good' players, as this will give a more accurate result as to how the deck fares against others. If I just player some noob with a starter deck and asking what a Pokey-man is, then how can I possibly get an accurate match-up from that? My only advice it's good to be confident, but don't be over-confident... It comes back to haunt you later and I can tell you it isn't nice
Donez
SalamenceGreat
New Member
If your interested in working salamence, then I strongly recommend reading this article I wrote.
FYI: The problems most people have with sally, I dont have.
http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=65913
FYI: The problems most people have with sally, I dont have.
http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=65913
Donezator
New Member
Not interested in running sally myself atm as a) I have 3 other decks built and b) I haven't got the money to buy Sallys, Sally X etc. I'll read your article however and give some feedback if possible tommorow. However, I have been considering a variant that is built around taking 4 prizes in one turn, then proceeding to win, though have not had the time to refine a list as of yet.