2009 State of the Game Observations

[drrty byl]

Drrty Byl: So what your saying is, Pokemon knows it can short change players because a majority will still play, but we should simply turn our heads and not even try and change that?

Nah bro, I agree with you that it would be excellent if the company showed more love in the way of funding and prizes rather than rolling them back. It would re-validate the seriousness and dedication with which players, organizers, and volunteers approach the game, and would be a wise marketing move on their part in light of discussions like these. Bumping up prizes would signal Nintendo's dedication to organized play.

 

[Articjedi]

Pokemon and Nintendo is in this for profit.

Oh great, another guy yelling socialism without understanding the debate. Of course they are, company pulls profit, company reinvests profit in other areas where they deem fit. Profit fuels profit, so capitalism thrives. You think the money just goes into their pockets? That's not capitalism, that's called stupid business. The argument here is that the money should be used to support better op to attract a different market, namely older, more competitive players who are looking for a new game to play. Yugioh is in the middle of a transition, reinvesting the huge profits that pokemon has been making into OP is an effort to attract those players, who are going to be continuing customers.

I talked to fulop the day after worlds, he had some great points. He had me pretty convinced that this is a prime opportunity for pokemon to steal away players. VS was discontinued, yugioh is in transition. If pokemon can steal a bit of this market from the dead card games and keep naruto and wow from doing the same, its better for sales.

He also made a good case for NOT increasing the invites to worlds, and rather increasing the amount of travel awards and scholarships. Worlds in theory is for the top 128 or so players, the best in the game, if you can't make that cut, then try harder next year. All increasing the amount of invites does is help the players who have already been playing for years, it does nothing to attract new ones. If you increase the awards for open tournaments, such as scholarship money at nats/regs or travel awards to worlds, you'll attract new players because they have a better incentive to pay for lots of cards and travel to open high-profile events.

 

[GrandmaJoner]

Can't respond to everything as it would take me probably about 3 days to comment on some of the arguments I have seen here...but one thing that has caught my attention is

Please, don't knock the or compare prize support to that of the judges. Without judges and TOs this game would not be possible. They devote countless hours to the game, and from my experience, most of them aren't "in it for the money," not like there is usually a large amount of money even involved.

I am always so appreciative of the people who selflessly put time into this game for others, so saying they deserve less compensation really frustrates me and should not even be considered IMO.




On another issue, I am curious to see some numbers regarding the spending from when trips were handed out from GCs + Regionals and a legitimate reason as to why the funding appears to be decreased so much (If if truly is solely from more trips to foreign players I will be quite surprised).

On the surface it really appears Nintendo is forking out much less than they have in the past. Also, if anyone knocks the attitude of playing this game to make money, please donate your winnings to charity (if you have won anything).

 

[NuclearApom]

I know my opinion probably doesn't count for much since I am new to the site but I hate the fact I have to spend hundreds of dollars on cards for my deck in order to have a real chance to play competitive.

I play for fun with my nephews, and I use to play competitively back in 2000 and back than it wasn't really nearly as hard to get a good competitive deck.

I would like to play again but I just don't have the money to spend.

I am sure I am not the only one who feels this way

 

[Abudoggie]

On the surface it really appears Nintendo is forking out much less than they have in the past.

For those really busy on their decklists for the past year... just want to point out that we have been in a major global recession. Some economists think we narrowly averted a global depression (the jury is still out on that actually...). I am an optimist an believe we are enroute to recovery albeit long and bumpy.

Unfortunately, the typical "corporate" response to economic strife is:
- cut production (decrease inventory and input cost)
- cut labor (fire people)
- cut marketing (many nearly eliminate it)

I'm not pointing this out to be a nintendo suckup. I am not related to them. But I am in the field of economics and there are some realities that go with the economic environment we are struggling with.

I'm glad we are arguing about prize support and not soup lines :tongue:

That said, Fulop makes a tremendous point that nintendo should be using the turmoil to invest and strengthen their market share in TCG niche. What is fairly ironic is that there are a boatload of academic studies concluding that companies should increase marketing in times of financial duress (to drive sales and steal market share) but real world evidence is that it rarely, if ever, is done.

So while we have our debate over things on how "corporate" should be tossing money around do keep in mind the very tough environment we are in. In the US, households have decreased spending at unprecedented levels over the past 6 months (impacting spending on necessities not just pokemon cards). Today it was announced that US households have also hit record levels for paying-off debt (more money taken out of consumer spending). People are still anxious about the economy and unemployment will likely persist over 9% for longer than the "typical" recession.

I am glad nintendo is likely in a better financial position than its competitors (especially in TCG) an giddy they haven't folded up the tent.

Hate to sound negative, but if you are under 40 (as most of you I suspect are) you likely lack real-life experience of how bad things were in the 70s and early 80s recessions. ... and this one has been worse and isn't quite over yet.

As for me, I am just thankful I could afford to take my daughter to LCQ (she missed by a loss) and VERY thankful to have met many of you and hope this game we all enjoy continues to grow and that we are fortunate to all reunite in Hawaii in 2010 :thumb:

.... just saying.....

So... whats the bdif? :lol:

 

[ChaosJim]

Global financial issues are a result of how business in its nature has changed and globalization. Just want to throw that out there.

Using a cloud of 'hard times' it is often a great time to do unpopular things and cite that, but I don't believe Nintendo (more relevantly, Pokemon) has done that.

Joner: I don't believe a single person complained about judges getting too much. People have issues with judges walking home with as much prize support as as the rest of the tournament. In b4 different pies and victory medals.

 

[yoyofsho16]

Global financial issues are a result of how business in its nature has changed and globalization. Just want to throw that out there.

Using a cloud of 'hard times' it is often a great time to do unpopular things and cite that, but I don't believe Nintendo (more relevantly, Pokemon) has done that.

Joner: I don't believe a single person complained about judges getting too much. People have issues with judges walking home with as much prize support as as the rest of the tournament. In b4 different pies and victory medals.

I always thought they should get different amounts depending on the tournament. If I'm not mistaken, it is always half a box.
This should not be the case for BR's. They should NEVER get more than the first place player.
BR's shouldn't give judges more than 10, preferrably even less. Judging a tournament that's only 5 or 6 hours long should NOT get the same amount of packs as a larger tournament like States that lasts from sun-up to sundown.

 

[meganium45]

6 hour long tourney for 10 packs is like, 6.00 an hour.

Sorry, my judges are worth more than that.

Vince

 

[Prof Clay]

6 hour long tourney for 10 packs is like, 6.00 an hour.

Sorry, my judges are worth more than that.

Vince

And judge support is not "a prize"... it is compensation for time and services.

 

[P_A]

6 hours only? No side events? Hummph, you're missing out buddy. Every one of my events are full day affairs. They are worth it for both players, and my judges. It's a good thing that compensation isn't what you envision, yoyofsho16, and up to the individual TO's. You're obviously looking at it from the player perspective. Eliminating a portion of what is given to the judges will result in poor judging in the end. With the abuse heaped on judges at this site alone, who in their right mind would volunteer? Good judges are worth compensating well.

 

[Jaeger]

6 hour long tourney for 10 packs is like, 6.00 an hour.

Sorry, my judges are worth more than that.

Vince

Agreed, good judges are hard to find. The other thing you have to remember are judges give up there chances to play expecially at larger tournaments means they essentially give up there chance of going to Worlds.

 

[ApachePrime]

I always thought they should get different amounts depending on the tournament. If I'm not mistaken, it is always half a box.
This should not be the case for BR's. They should NEVER get more than the first place player.
BR's shouldn't give judges more than 10, preferrably even less. Judging a tournament that's only 5 or 6 hours long should NOT get the same amount of packs as a larger tournament like States that lasts from sun-up to sundown.

So you're saying that if I drive, and work for 6 hours, I should get compensated $16(4 packs) worth of cards? As a player you are not required to be professional, not required to have the knowledge, not required to stand, not required to be IN THE ZONE and not required to practice impartiality for that whole 6 hours. I certainly think my time is worth more than that.

I'm not saying I wouldn't just for 4 packs. I would do it, because I like judging and I love this game. I would not go out of my way and drive across the state/country for it though, because I wouldn't be able to afford it. My judging support indirectly goes towards paying my bills and gas money.

I judged two states, one in GA and one in FL. GA was a 12 hour drive + Hotel Room + 12 hours of working + 12 hour drive back. FL was a 4 hours of total driving, nearly 36 hours of working. 40 hours a piece. So you're right, the work involved in a BR is much less time, and I would certainly be willing to do it for less, but the more appreciation I get as a judge the more work I'm going to put into it. I feel it is my responsibility to get on here and keep up to date on rulings, and keep up to date on popular cards being played. I spend a good deal of time unpaid for keeping sharp so I can judge well. Look past the event and into the work it takes to be a GOOD judge.

 

[nnaann]

6 hour long tourney for 10 packs is like, 6.00 an hour.

Sorry, my judges are worth more than that.

Vince

Although I attend alot of tournaments and I'm not at the age to judge - I completely agree with this. If people want to swap judge's packs for the winning 4 packs - let's see how many of those tournaments are still judged. I'd rather have a tournament with bad prize support than no tournament at all.

 

[Scipio]

Does anyone complaining about judges have ANY idea how hard it is?
I don't have it in me to be a good judge for bigger events, but having judged a few reasonably sized events in the past I can tell you this: We dont respect our (good) judges enough. Give them more before the players as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Articjedi]

I always thought they should get different amounts depending on the tournament. If I'm not mistaken, it is always half a box.
This should not be the case for BR's. They should NEVER get more than the first place player.
BR's shouldn't give judges more than 10, preferrably even less. Judging a tournament that's only 5 or 6 hours long should NOT get the same amount of packs as a larger tournament like States that lasts from sun-up to sundown.

That's greedy talk, me putting up with 20 kids a day for 4-6 hours wouldn't be worth it. It's already bad enough as it is. Besides, wouldn't the compensation ENCOURAGE you to maybe start judging yourself?

 

[DarkMagnus]

then add to the fact when a player doesn't like the way we rule we are character bashed until they find a new target

also waht about the work we put in while not on the clock fighting for penalties being more fair so that there is less complaining from the players?

 

[Diaz]

6 hour long tourney for 10 packs is like, 6.00 an hour.

Sorry, my judges are worth more than that.

Vince

And you players aren't?

There would be no event without judges. But there also wouldn't be any events without the players.

I'm not saying that judges should get less, but that players should get more. For battle roads, I'll probably do a little of each, I've always been a player first, but at some point its not worth playing.

 

[Master Yoda]

the game/player base is growing, the prices become lower(less).

and?

it´s just a good marketing disission. now is the game big so there is no reason to spend so much monay in marketing->price support.

everyone who knows a little bit ob buissnes can understand that,

 

[NoPoke]

Diaz and others: From what I've heard Vince looks after his players too. However players aren't employed, they aren't staff. The demand for more is an arguement you just can't win if comparisons to staff rewards is the only grounds for the demand for more for the players.

The issue of staff reward and player reward are completely separate and mixing them does the players demands a disservice as it severely weakens the case for more. [assuming such a case exists that is Just climbing back on the fence ]

 

[Scipio]

And you players aren't?

There would be no event without judges. But there also wouldn't be any events without the players.

I'm not saying that judges should get less, but that players should get more. For battle roads, I'll probably do a little of each, I've always been a player first, but at some point its not worth playing.

Come back to me when you judge events. Judging = work. Playing = PLAY.