PokeMontoya
New Member
did you get to play dude OR what
HOLLA
HOLLA
A simple proposal for regionals....
- Thread starter BANGINBOX
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It was interesting that rather than US players find that counter, we were all busy trading for Blaze EX.
But give Jake Burt credit. He came up with a Team Aqua deck before we had even heard of the Team Magma the Japanese players ran that that had a lot of the same fundamentals of Team Magma.
you probl'y think this song is about you, don't you, don't you?
Well, I'd guess we'd have to see the stats on that; I'm not sure its totally an accurate statement. Off topic, but worth responding to, because I'd like all the members to know that:
Well, I'd guess we'd have to see the stats on that; I'm not sure its totally an accurate statement. Off topic, but worth responding to, because I'd like all the members to know that:
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Jake always has the cred!
Yah, this is what I remember from that era, Dave: some people with good to amazing records were saying, "We know all the decks, there is nothing else in this meta." Well, wham! I guess that was shockingly contradicted. And it shows that when you firmly, blindingly think that everything is known, that everything is dull & cold as an ice field, maybe its not.
Do I like a varied environment? Yes. Could it be better? Yes. Is PUI bridging a gap in sets in aruably the best manner to keep the game alive, keep revenues steady & sales healthy? Yes, I think so. Do I like that stability & health, having seen the game stacked next to the garbage chute in 2003? Yes, most definitely.
In a power deck environment, the finesse player has to either find the counter (Magma), the Meta surprise (Queendom) or use the finesse skills to make their tech work against the mirrors. Its a phase the game goes through. You don't fix it by taking two cards out behind the tournament venue and tazing them! As others have pointed out (Jeremy?) that only unbalances the format.
The question I ask is why does Japan make cards that are so powerful, they are dominate until a blunt counter comes out a year later? Why can't Japan make cards that are powerful, but not overly powerful, in the hopes that a metagame might not be filled with just 1 or 2 decks, but with 5 or 6 decks?
Absoltrainer
Active Member
You know what would make both decks a little less useable, but would balance out the metagmae more. All of the things you can't do to an ex should be applied to lv X.
That means not lv X with
Celios
Scramble
DRE
CC
and most likely some other cards.
That means not lv X with
Celios
Scramble
DRE
CC
and most likely some other cards.
chriscobi634
New Member
You shouldn't ban neither one of those cards, I think I just found the counter for it. Not saying a word though as it's most likely going to be my Regionals deck.
I've seen so many post like these like a couple of days before States, but yet those decks never actually won anything. I'll back up my statemen when I playtest with this deck a little more. On paper it looks very good vs. G/G, and about a 50/50 or 55-45 vs Magmortar. Like I said I'll keep you guys updated on the match-ups once I get some playtesting done with those. So far I've playtest versus other "SDs" and it can beat "Rogue" so the fact that surrounds other SDs that could take these 2 beasts down but not "Rogues" is not the fact with this SD.
If all goes well you will probably see it doing well at Midwest Regionals.
Not the Answer, but a good deck on it's own. Not a counter either as it wasn't made to counter both decks, it just happens to look good on paper vs. them.
I've seen so many post like these like a couple of days before States, but yet those decks never actually won anything. I'll back up my statemen when I playtest with this deck a little more. On paper it looks very good vs. G/G, and about a 50/50 or 55-45 vs Magmortar. Like I said I'll keep you guys updated on the match-ups once I get some playtesting done with those. So far I've playtest versus other "SDs" and it can beat "Rogue" so the fact that surrounds other SDs that could take these 2 beasts down but not "Rogues" is not the fact with this SD.
If all goes well you will probably see it doing well at Midwest Regionals.
Not the Answer, but a good deck on it's own. Not a counter either as it wasn't made to counter both decks, it just happens to look good on paper vs. them.
Chairman Kaga
Active Member
A large part of it, I think, is the format difference. I'm speaking completely out of ignorance here, but I bet a lot of these cards probably aren't nearly as powerful in Japan, because they have effective counters that have either been rotated here or are still to come.
Can I make a prediction? Garchomp LvX becomes a new dominant card, because it has one obvious counter that we're not getting until our DP6.
As for Scramble/DRE/CC/etc., that becomes a non-issue after this season. Of course, that's little help now.
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~Blazi-King~
Active Member
Castaway/Strength Charm/Boost Blissey OHKO?
JPN SItll has like FRLG-on IIRC. Correct?
ToysRUsKid
Active Member
Garchomp Lvl.X is overrated.
Jimmy -
As usual. Thought provoking. I was on the "Ban Wager/Absol" wagon after CCs because those two cards are luck cards, not skill.
Mag and Gardy are truly tough indeed. There are counters though.
The real issue is that folks are taking the safe, tried road by playing GG and Mag/Var. That's why the metagame is so dominant with them. They are not difficult decks, the cards are available, and they have great matchups. Heck, just by sheer numbers and probability, with so many folks playing GG or Mag, the chances are that those decks will dominate are very high.
It sort of like MewTric or LBS. Folks would get the cards, copy the decklists, and play them. The skills just weren't there. Why does GG win a lot? Well, take a whole bunch of folks who play GG. How many have mad skills? Not a lot. What are GG weak to? GG of course. So, any player with skills walks thru a mirror GG. Fact.
To fix the GG/Mag issue is to have folks get creative. These two cards are powerful, no doubt. Players need to think for themselves and take a few chances.
Sig this: Great decks don't win Tournaments, Great Players do.
Steve
As usual. Thought provoking. I was on the "Ban Wager/Absol" wagon after CCs because those two cards are luck cards, not skill.
Mag and Gardy are truly tough indeed. There are counters though.
The real issue is that folks are taking the safe, tried road by playing GG and Mag/Var. That's why the metagame is so dominant with them. They are not difficult decks, the cards are available, and they have great matchups. Heck, just by sheer numbers and probability, with so many folks playing GG or Mag, the chances are that those decks will dominate are very high.
It sort of like MewTric or LBS. Folks would get the cards, copy the decklists, and play them. The skills just weren't there. Why does GG win a lot? Well, take a whole bunch of folks who play GG. How many have mad skills? Not a lot. What are GG weak to? GG of course. So, any player with skills walks thru a mirror GG. Fact.
To fix the GG/Mag issue is to have folks get creative. These two cards are powerful, no doubt. Players need to think for themselves and take a few chances.
Sig this: Great decks don't win Tournaments, Great Players do.
Steve
bullados
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?
I don't think you can compare Gallantry/Mag to LBS/Mewtrick. LBS/Mewtrick were both very complex decks with intricate parts and TecHable main components, very difficult both to build and play. I'd compare the GG/Mag phenomena to the Blaze/Gardy era during Eon. All four of these decks are relatively easy to find cards for, build, and play at a fairly high level. Ironically, the two eras have pretty much the exact same components to them...
Gardy/Gallantry -- Both abuse Gardy as their main engine, both can abuse the deck to a HIGH degree. Both have big attacks that depend mostly on the player's ability to effectively manage his or her own resources (Energy in Gardy, Prizes in Gallantry).
Mag/Blaze -- Both use the discard as their main source of speed, especially in the Mag/Typh build. Both base their power on the discard pile. Both have big bench hitting attacks.
Gardy/Gallantry -- Both abuse Gardy as their main engine, both can abuse the deck to a HIGH degree. Both have big attacks that depend mostly on the player's ability to effectively manage his or her own resources (Energy in Gardy, Prizes in Gallantry).
Mag/Blaze -- Both use the discard as their main source of speed, especially in the Mag/Typh build. Both base their power on the discard pile. Both have big bench hitting attacks.
Jimmy,
I think GG and Maggy are played for one main reason - consistency. With premier points being essential for invites, top players are all using these decks.
My kid will not be going to World this year because he'll be off on a church-serving mission. Thus, he chose to play GG-killer Banette-tech. His skill alone is usually good enough to get him past the swiss rounds with 1 or 2 loses, but when he gets to the playoffs, he "eats the GGs for lunch."
I don't think banning certain cards is the answer. The meta-game is somewhat of a "joke" due to the flawed rating system. That makes players like you and my kid shine because they can counter the meta-game and win major tournaments. The problem is, winning a tournament is no longer as important as winning lots of games.
My kid won CO states going 7-2 and gained 50 premier points. Another player at CO States went 6-1 (lost first round of playoffs) and got 75 points. Something is wrong there!
I think GG and Maggy are played for one main reason - consistency. With premier points being essential for invites, top players are all using these decks.
My kid will not be going to World this year because he'll be off on a church-serving mission. Thus, he chose to play GG-killer Banette-tech. His skill alone is usually good enough to get him past the swiss rounds with 1 or 2 loses, but when he gets to the playoffs, he "eats the GGs for lunch."
I don't think banning certain cards is the answer. The meta-game is somewhat of a "joke" due to the flawed rating system. That makes players like you and my kid shine because they can counter the meta-game and win major tournaments. The problem is, winning a tournament is no longer as important as winning lots of games.
My kid won CO states going 7-2 and gained 50 premier points. Another player at CO States went 6-1 (lost first round of playoffs) and got 75 points. Something is wrong there!
rhodesia123
New Member
i would rather gain 50 points, a booster box, a free pass to origins, and a $300 gift certificate to nationals than just 75 points.
Yes, it's true that Gardillade, Magmortar are much easier archetypes that crush and is easy to play. The thing is, we need something to compete with. With this competition, we will still see players thinking on how to beat and overcome their competition. Play Gardy against it self. Latilock for magmortar. Latilock + Empoleon. Magmortar has no where else to go. You see, we need competition and I think at the moment G&G and Magmortar are giving us this competition. There are still cards yet to come in future sets to cut of they're distruction, but let's just see what's PUSA doing for us.
And this is the biggest issue.
My son won 2 states, ended up going 12-2. And may gain a few points.
Also, playing off for 3rd and 4th is wrong when points are on the line.
That should be fixed.
TheDancingPeanut
New Member
The game is always better when there are a limited number of Tier1 decks.
This is true because it allows games to be decided on skill as opposed to who you happen to sit down against.
There is a balance in this format now--GG can win, Morter can win, and others (as we've seen) can sneak in there. This is not Blaziken '04, when 90% of people played the same thing. Blazikens were $12 each back then.
But when there is too much parity in the format, and anything can win at any given time, great players lose because of bad match ups.
The key is in the balance...and while this format ain't perfect, it sure as heck isn't the worst format we've ever seen.
This is true because it allows games to be decided on skill as opposed to who you happen to sit down against.
There is a balance in this format now--GG can win, Morter can win, and others (as we've seen) can sneak in there. This is not Blaziken '04, when 90% of people played the same thing. Blazikens were $12 each back then.
But when there is too much parity in the format, and anything can win at any given time, great players lose because of bad match ups.
The key is in the balance...and while this format ain't perfect, it sure as heck isn't the worst format we've ever seen.
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