Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Can P!P Dodge a Bullet?

I think a way that P!P can avoid a MAJORITY of these problems is to split the B/W like they did with Triumphant. All the powerful Trainers like Max Potion and Pokemon Catcher will be released in another set AFTER rotation (which will be after the season). Also, the rule change will only happen AFTER the rotation as well. The only really confusing thing would be the Poke-Ability VS Poke-Power/Poke-Body which I think can be settled.

Now I think next season would probably be HGSS-on or RR-on (since there's no more real overpowered Pokemon).

Just my 2 cents :p

You seriously want another filler set?
 
and fill it up with more cheerleaders :/? Idk, B/W looks cool but not THAT great, its main selling point seems to be new pokemon, no point in taking away its trainers.

I just realized that this would mean no GoW ...


Absoltuly support the idea, do it :)
 
I think a way that P!P can avoid a MAJORITY of these problems is to split the B/W like they did with Triumphant. All the powerful Trainers like Max Potion and Pokemon Catcher will be released in another set AFTER rotation (which will be after the season). Also, the rule change will only happen AFTER the rotation as well. The only really confusing thing would be the Poke-Ability VS Poke-Power/Poke-Body which I think can be settled.

Now I think next season would probably be HGSS-on or RR-on (since there's no more real overpowered Pokemon).

Just my 2 cents :p

You do know that we're getting over 110 cards in our B/W set while Japan's B/W set only had 106 cards? So yeah we will be getting Max Potion and Pokemon Catcher.
 
Bravo, Bravo, I really love your post, I agree with the WHOLE DARN THING! (except the hate against gyara ;D)
 
Lemme guess, Beedrill G?

lol no not a beedrill deck

No, he's running a Leafeon/Umbreon variant.

Yep still a work in progress though

I REALLY hope not . . .



$180 spent on a Beedrill deck would be a tragedy.

It was mostly starting from scratch and it was the lv x pokemon that cost the most

On topic . . .

There has GOT to be either a mid-season rotation OR a hold off on the B&W rules. Sableye/Crobat WITH Trainers on the first turn makes Uxie donk look like a set up deck . . . it would be mental to have that.

Neither solution is ideal . . . rotation = a big upheaval like never before and not going to B&W rules means we get a false format with cards designed to be played under different rules. It would be so nice just to rotate like Japan does. Not necessarily at the same time cos they get the cards first, but at least in the same way.

But yeah back on topic I honestly don't know which one I would prefer (rotation or rules). The rotation might throw out some of the current cards I use and the new rules would be something else I would have to learn as I am still learning the current ones lol when will we find out what they decide to do?
 
I wouldn't like a mid-season rotation to be honest :p

I really liked the article bravo though. I just believe that the decks that a player plays all season and earns his invite with should be the decks the players play with for worlds. I really actually would like and RR-on rotation, just not this year.
 
@Charizard
Not necessarily. Remember that cards like Warp Point, Cyclone/Warp energy and other random "staples" of formats are due to be out with a RR rotation. These cards need to be reprinted at some point; B&W seems like a pretty good place to do so.

P!P can dodge this bullet fairly easily: implement the new rules post rotation (that is, after Worlds) and delay the release of game breaking cards such as Pokemon catcher, Max Potion and the like until the August set. This way, Donk decks are not overpowered, there is no confusion with a mid season rotation (which, to my understanding, has never happened stateside and furthermore would go against what P!P wants to establish with rotations, per their press release last summer) and already solid decks such as Gyarados do not receive a ridiculous power creep heading into Nats and Worlds.

TBH, this is exactly what I think is going to happen. Going by P!P's statement last year, the format will be RR-on. I highly doubt that the doomsday scenario will occur and that the rule changes will be implemented mid season, with a new rotation to boot. As far as the set being released early, methinks tpci just wants to maximize how much news they can make with the introduction of the new generation of games (March 4th-6th), release of the 3DS (Nintendo's creation but still tied in, March 27th) and the release of the new cards (Mid-April).
 
The only thing I'm still very unclear about is just how much input do the people at P!P have over the US format?

I've been given the impression that Pokemon USA is basically told what is going to be done by Japan, and that P!P has very little input into those decisions.

If I am wrong regarding this, then please correct me.
 
Very good article.

Like others, I am a bit concerned about what the new BW rules will have on our format. First-turn trainers/supporters/stadiums will mean that Nationals and Worlds will become donk-fests, but at the same time, I feel that this isn't really going to change much. After all, with our current speedy format, aren't we ALREADY in a donk-infested format? SP decks are naturally fast to start off with (their basics also have 80 HP+ usually, meaning that donking them isn't as easy), as is Gyarados and Donphan Prime. Vilegar is a bit slower, but with a Spiritomb opener (which they want), Sableye can't donk without Crobat G help (which isn't as hard, I guess, via Pokemon Pokemon Collecter).

In any case, I don't believe that people will start splitting their decks stratagies into two (ei: Gyarados and Sableye-donk). Why? Because it creates inconsistency, and that means harder times and dead draws in drawn out games. Lets face it, even decks based around donks like Uxie, Shuppet, Machamp SF, Donphan prime, etc are never able to ALWAYS get the donk. While the donk rate may increase, it won't win Nats or Worlds alone, just as it's beginning to be seen that Lostgar isn't as uber as many claimed it would be in today's format. As well built Lostgar deck is, at best, just as good as any T2 or MAYBE T1 deck. Like any other deck, it has its bad match-ups (Sable-lock and Weavile G techs have proven this).

Whatever P!P does, as someone said earlier, there's going to be an outrage. The reality is this... They're firing not one bullet, not two bullets, but three:
1. The release of BW. This means that the new rules WILL take effect. They have to or the new "Ability" mechanics won't be properly defined. The RC reprint will also mean the the errata must take effect. There's no way around this. If BW comes, so do the rules, and that will cause an outrage in any case. The only thing they can twist here is the trainers-on-turn-one rule, but this won't come anywhere close to solving all of the problems that have arisen.
2. A mid-season rotation. I guarantee you that players everywhere will become very angry, as this means that their current deck is probably no good anymore. This would mean that the ratings they've gained from their previous tournements now say nothing about where they stand in the new format, and they have to create a new deck without being able to test as smaller events like Cities or even States. This can be frustrating for even experienced players as new deck ideas are tried out. Like any new idea, they can either prosper or die out. It will be a gamble with any new deck in any case.
3. No mid-season rotation. As outlined countless times by other players, this article, and myself, this may result in a donk-fest Nats and Worlds, and no one likes getting donked. It's disappointing, demoralizing, and DEFINATELY not fun, especially when you don't even get a single turn. However, this changes very little in a format where SPs, Gyarados, and the other Tier 1 contenders are ALL helped by this, not nerfed. Even Machamp/Donphan prime has BTS to get around the RC errata, so it's noth really an issue. The main problem here will be the increase in the number of donks, and that's what will make people drag out their torches and pitchforks over.

The bottom line? As said before, this is a no-win situation for P!P. You might able to dodge one bullet if you're lucky, but not these three. This also just goes to prove that P!P, even if based around a card game, is no different than any other company that exists today; YOU CAN'T SATISFY EVERYONE!

---Begin related rant (I'll delete this from my post if needed)---
To all of those people yelling "I'm quitting! This is so stupid!" Please stop. The drama that BW is bringing may, and probably will, cause some people to go on a hiatus and stop playing, which won't be a surprise to anyone. However, this drama will only be present until after Worlds passes. After that, a RR-on or HGSS-on format is highly likely, if not guaranteed, which means that the format will slow down considerably and become balanced and healthy once again. If you wish to take a break from the game when it's chaotic, then that's fine. There's nothing wrong with taking a break from anything. Just please don't try to take others with you. Taking a break, or even leaving the game altogether, is your decision and yours alone. Most players will continue to play the game, rgeardless. Why? It's a game. We find it fun. P!P is doing their job because of this. I personally look forward to what the future format hold for us. If the format will be slowed as they promise, I look forward to how that will affect deck structure, as I didn't play back in the base-set days. I'd love to try out how it was back in the ancient days.
---End related rant (I'll delete this from my post if needed)---

Personally, I'm neutral over this whole situation. Enraged or not, I'll do the same that pro-players do; adapt to the changes. That's all we can do.
 
Thanks everyone for the kind words! To Yoshi-, I wrote this article to sum up a lot of what has been said about the future of the game/format. I noticed there wasn't any specific article on the main points, so I thought I'd provide the community with one as well as a nice place for people to just talk about potential problems our game may have down the road, or solutions for fixing/preventing those problems in the first place.

P!P can dodge this bullet fairly easily: implement the new rules post rotation (that is, after Worlds) and delay the release of game breaking cards such as Pokemon catcher, Max Potion and the like until the August set. This way, Donk decks are not overpowered, there is no confusion with a mid season rotation (which, to my understanding, has never happened stateside and furthermore would go against what P!P wants to establish with rotations, per their press release last summer) and already solid decks such as Gyarados do not receive a ridiculous power creep heading into Nats and Worlds.

The scenario you raise seems to be the only plausible option - outside of a mid-season rotation - that P!P can go with. Given what we know so far about the B&W release for the rest of the world (as well as precedence when it comes to card releases for a new generation of Pokemon), I think it's safe to say that P!P will probably no do this. Also, who's to say what cards out of the B&W set are "game breaking"? We all seem to be able to agree on a few cards that look super powerful (like Pokemon Catcher), but there are other cards and combos out there that many people are on the fence about. What about the Energy Removal 2 reprint? Some people may look at it and say it's bad, while others see four of that card with Lost Remover and Junk Arm as being broken. The main thing I'm trying to say is that there's a huge uncertainty about the whole thing, especially since nobody can use Japan's format to gauge how B&W will interact with our format.

First-turn trainers/supporters/stadiums will mean that Nationals and Worlds will become donk-fests, but at the same time, I feel that this isn't really going to change much. After all, with our current speedy format, aren't we ALREADY in a donk-infested format? SP decks are naturally fast to start off with (their basics also have 80 HP+ usually, meaning that donking them isn't as easy), as is Gyarados and Donphan Prime. Vilegar is a bit slower, but with a Spiritomb opener (which they want), Sableye can't donk without Crobat G help (which isn't as hard, I guess, via Pokemon Pokemon Collecter).

In any case, I don't believe that people will start splitting their decks stratagies into two (ei: Gyarados and Sableye-donk). Why? Because it creates inconsistency, and that means harder times and dead draws in drawn out games. Lets face it, even decks based around donks like Uxie, Shuppet, Machamp SF, Donphan prime, etc are never able to ALWAYS get the donk. While the donk rate may increase, it won't win Nats or Worlds alone, just as it's beginning to be seen that Lostgar isn't as uber as many claimed it would be in today's format. As well built Lostgar deck is, at best, just as good as any T2 or MAYBE T1 deck. Like any other deck, it has its bad match-ups (Sable-lock and Weavile G techs have proven this).

I think you're right about a lot of what you said, but I think Sableye has much more potential with the B&W new rules than you're giving it credit for. A huge part of the reason donk decks (or just decks with the potential to donk) don't manage the donk everytime is precisely because they have a 50% chance of going first every game. Unless these types of decks have some unbelievable opening hand (or they can hit weakness on a low HP Pokemon), going first is generally bad for them since they can't play trainers, supporters, or stadiums. Going first and hitting for 20 or something gives the opponent a chance to play a Pokemon Collector and get a bench going. Going second, which is generally good for donk decks right now, gives the opponent a chance to use Call Energy to get some Basics on the bench as well.

Imagine, however, what would happen if first turn trainers, supporters, and stadiums were allowed. Going first becomes awesome for donk decks. It means that the opponent gets absolutely no chance whatsoever to get Pokemon on their bench (no Call Energy, no Pokemon Collector). Now, you may say that half the time, non-donk decks would go first and use t/s/s to get Pokemon on their bench though, right? Well, that's why Sableye would be absurdly powerful, as it's Poke-Body steals that first turn from the opponent. Imagine playing down an active Luxray GL and a Crobat G on the bench (just to avoid the donk), calling the coin flip correctly to go first, then have an opponent open with a Sableye, use Pokemon Communication to get Uxie, drop a Crobat G and a Basic Dark, drop Uxie for 4 cards, play Expert Belt, play a PokeGear 3.0 for a Seeker, drop Crobat G again and KO Luxray GL for the game. Seems pretty messed up, right? Imagine what newcomers would think of the game if it played out this way. "Wait, how'd you get to go first?! Hold on, why do I have to pick up my Crobat G? You mean that's game?! Wow, this is stupid..."

In a format where going first provides such an easy way to win, you can bet that people will take advantage of it. And Sableye breaks that 50% chance of going first. Of course, more players will be playing Sableye, so things might return once more to the 50% chance of going first. But then it would just be donk decks playing against donk decks. This, to me at least, seems like a massive problem.

Of course, simply absorbing B&W cards into our format without adopting the new rules puts a huge blanket of uncertainty over the format as well.
 
Almost even more than this (though not quite), I would like to know if the Black and White theme decks will be legal for Regionals since they are being released 2 weeks before...
 
I think you're right about a lot of what you said, but I think Sableye has much more potential with the B&W new rules than you're giving it credit for. A huge part of the reason donk decks (or just decks with the potential to donk) don't manage the donk everytime is precisely because they have a 50% chance of going first every game. Unless these types of decks have some unbelievable opening hand (or they can hit weakness on a low HP Pokemon), going first is generally bad for them since they can't play trainers, supporters, or stadiums. Going first and hitting for 20 or something gives the opponent a chance to play a Pokemon Collector and get a bench going. Going second, which is generally good for donk decks right now, gives the opponent a chance to use Call Energy to get some Basics on the bench as well.

Imagine, however, what would happen if first turn trainers, supporters, and stadiums were allowed. Going first becomes awesome for donk decks. It means that the opponent gets absolutely no chance whatsoever to get Pokemon on their bench (no Call Energy, no Pokemon Collector). Now, you may say that half the time, non-donk decks would go first and use t/s/s to get Pokemon on their bench though, right? Well, that's why Sableye would be absurdly powerful, as it's Poke-Body steals that first turn from the opponent. Imagine playing down an active Luxray GL and a Crobat G on the bench (just to avoid the donk), calling the coin flip correctly to go first, then have an opponent open with a Sableye, use Pokemon Communication to get Uxie, drop a Crobat G and a Basic Dark, drop Uxie for 4 cards, play Expert Belt, play a PokeGear 3.0 for a Seeker, drop Crobat G again and KO Luxray GL for the game. Seems pretty messed up, right? Imagine what newcomers would think of the game if it played out this way. "Wait, how'd you get to go first?! Hold on, why do I have to pick up my Crobat G? You mean that's game?! Wow, this is stupid..."

In a format where going first provides such an easy way to win, you can bet that people will take advantage of it. And Sableye breaks that 50% chance of going first. Of course, more players will be playing Sableye, so things might return once more to the 50% chance of going first. But then it would just be donk decks playing against donk decks. This, to me at least, seems like a massive problem.

Of course, simply absorbing B&W cards into our format without adopting the new rules puts a huge blanket of uncertainty over the format as well.

I'm in no way denying that donks wouldn't, as you say, become far more likely with the BW rules. However, I think that your example is a greatly exaggurated one, as it would be with a deck that wins via donk or not at all (not to mention that that's a LOT of specific cards to have on turn one ALL THE TIME). This kinda goes back to what I said before; You won't always get the donk, just as Sable-lock and Vilegar don't always get their respective Sableye and Spiritomb starts, even with four copies. It doesn't matter if your deck is built around donking WITH the rules in your favor. Even with an 80% chance to donk as oppose to a 50% chance before the rule changes, you still won't always get the donk. When you don't get it with a donk-only deck, it's an auto-loss. Those kind of decks, while frustrating for the skilled-players who DID lose to it due to bad luck, won't win Worlds, regardless. The only competitive deck with Sableye that I can see getting a tremendous boost from the BW rules is Sable-lock simply because it already has the capability to donk AND disrupt AND carry out longer matches (meaning it won't auto-lose without the donk). It won't need to make any changes to its deck structure to take full advantage of the new rules, meaning there's no inconsistency in going for the donk to begin with.

Now, will the BW rules w/ Sableye be annoying as hell? Will it have great potential? I'd be a fool to say no. Of course it'll be annoying and frustrating. Then again, anything that P!P does with BW's release is going to be frustrating and annoying. The skill/luck table WILL become unbalanced, regardless of what they do, and that's what so many players are in a ruckus over; it tilts the odds too much towards luck because of, like you said, the inability to even TAKE your first turn. Never-the-less, it still won't make Sable-donk the Worlds winner. The true winner will still be one of the current top tier decks, still; Luxchomp, Dialgachomp, Vilegar, Sable-lock, etc. Personally, I can see Sable-lock as the most probable victor for reasons explained above, but this is just theory. Whether I've guessed right or not remains to be seen. Only Nats and Worlds will settle the debate.

As for newer players, pardon me for saying this, I don't believe that they should even BE at Nats/Worlds if they're just starting the game, so they won't really feel any of this considering that all this drama will end after Worlds, anyways (in other words, it'll last for what... 4 months, tops?). In fact, next format will be a bit of a blessing to them since the format will be slowing down. Many current awesome T1 decks will simply not exist come the next format. The only donk-possible deck that will be available is the Pachirisu CL, Zekrom, and Shaymin UL combo deck (all searchable via Pokemon Collector), but even they won't get the donk if they don't have three energies in their hand by turn one. If any well-mannered player DOES face a newcomer, it should be emphisized that said annoying donks shouldn't happen near as much once the next rotation comes.

Donks will be annoying, but rather that concentrating on the negatives of all of this, we should be grateful that our next format won't be plagued by the same fate. I'm sure P!P knows this, too, and that's kinda the main point I was trying to get across in my first post; Rather than get all bummed out over something so short-term, try to look at the big picture and realize that the game's future health won't be jeoperdized after the rotation. On the contrary, the future is very bright, and it will allow players like myself, who started the game well after the E-Reader era, the oppurtinuty to experience those "ancient set-up decks" of the Base-set era.

Besides, from what I saw in the GG-dominated format of 3-ish years ago, anytime there's a generation shift, isn't there ALWAYS some form of imbalance due to new cards/rules? If so, then this year is no different. It's a just generation shift. Its negative effects will be long forgotten come next format or two.
 
Wes, I just have this to say about your post...

Uxie Quadra Donk.

Look around the Gym for SLOW DECK's various postings on the matter, then think how insane it would be if the only way to stop it would be to have 2 Spiritomb in your opening hand and played during setup. Because the deck can (and does, I've seen it) work its way out of a single Spiritomb start. At least currently, you can use Gastly as a second Trainer stopper against the deck. If it goes first, fuggedaboutit, it's won.
 
I know this is a bit of a dissenting opinion, and I am not a super competitive player, so I might just be out of my tree, but I don't think things need to be as bad as they are now. I also think that with a slightly different mind set, regardless of what P!P does, that things will be o.k.

If you look at the results from the recent European Challenge Cup http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=142182 you can see that there are lots of different decks that managed to fight their way through a Luxchomp infested field.

Is it possible that too many players have just become convinced that Luxchomp is too dominant, and so have given up trying new ideas? I'm not talking about being lazy or going for the easy win. I know it takes a lot of work to get a good Luxchomp build that works for your play style. But the results indicate that Luxchomp can be bested and other decks - different decks, can make it into the top cut. If more players began to think more outside the box, we would have a different format - even though we had the same cards.

As for the donk issue. Eventually it will be reduced - it may take a year. I read a lot about how insane Uxie donk is right now, but I don't see it making top cuts. So is it really more than just a rather annoying nuisance?

These are just ideas. As I said at the outset, they may be totally off base. But I think we should at least give them a passing thought. One thing that I have tried to keep in mind throughout my life, and which has usually held me in good stead is - Few things are ever as bad as they seem. If you change your perspective things may begin to look better.
 
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The thing with Uxie is that it folds to Trainer Lock.

When the BW rules come out, it basically doesn't have to deal with it when going first.
 
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