Crobat prime: good, bad, or just plain ugly

[baby mario]

the rest of what you said is all pretty accurate but this piece of text is just full of holes.
can you please tell me how, just how possibly, is 140HP, free retreat, quadruple poison, and sniping for 30 is bad? and please don't just give the "oh, it's weak to luxray" generic answer. it's still not OHKO'd by it, unless they use trash bolt, which i heavily doubt many luxray players would like to do every turn.

What's wrong with the 'generic answer'? It goes a long way to proving why Crobat Prime is not a good card in the current format.

It's a cliche because it is true. You don't have to Trash Bolt EVERY turn (you going to get a Crobat Prime out EVERY turn?) You don't even have to Trash Bolt if you have a Crobat G.

Is it going to be good later?

I dunno because I don't know what the rotation will be and I don't know what's in future sets.

 

[arMILO]

What's wrong with the 'generic answer'? It goes a long way to proving why Crobat Prime is not a good card in the current format.

It's a cliche because it is true. You don't have to Trash Bolt EVERY turn (you going to get a Crobat Prime out EVERY turn?) You don't even have to Trash Bolt if you have a Crobat G.

Is it going to be good later?

I dunno because I don't know what the rotation will be and I don't know what's in future sets.

head on over to the beach if you don't know what'll be in future sets. the generic answer does go a long way, but in the same state of mind, let's all go tell our dogs to sit when they're already sitting. it's redundant, it's blatantly obvious and doesn't change anything (except for maybe your dog will mistake your telling them to sit for come or lay :lol: )

 

[Deoxys Cool Form]

the attacks aren't up to standard? what's your standard? take away egain and all you've got is a three for 80 attacker that can use it every other turn. might as well use blastoise if that's your standard. 1 for quadruple poison is pretty above standard if you ask me. and true unown g does wreck this deck, but it's not like unwon g just got released with it. just because the deck isn't good NOW, doesn't mean it won't be good EVER. the two points i'm trying to make are 1) it's a good card and 2) it will be a good deck (not now, but it will) SP is just simply broken, that's what i know. it's hard to mount any sort of offensive against them becuase of how many ppl are on the bandwagon and because of how good they are. but other decks can make a big dent in the meta.

To be a good card it has to have at least (unless I'm mistaken) maybe a couple of these:

A good type in the metagame.
No bad weaknesses.
Free retreat.
A good attack.
Good HP.

Jumpluff has: No bad weakness, Free retreat and a good attack.
Gyarados has: A good attack and good HP for a stage 1.
Luxray GL Lv.X has: A good type in the metagame, free retreat, a good attack (with SP support) and good HP.

I could go on and on so I'll just leave it there.

That's pretty much my standard. (Maybe with a few exceptions)

Blastoise doesn't have SP support. It has a clunky stage 2 for support. Blastoise has a horrid weakness.

Most decks play Unown G. For one card in your deck, one basic in your deck too, you can counter this. It isn't like some horrid clunky stage 2 tech you have to get out to counter it. It's a basic Pokemon.

I agree, it isn't good now. And also that it could be BDIF for all we know in the future, but noone can tell that yet so I'm just talking about now.

Point 2 is fair enough but noone can tell what will happen with it, it could be BDIF, or just a laughing stock. Point 1 I dunno. If we're talking about every card made then yes it's good. If we're comparing it, to say, I dunno, good decks at the moment then no.

 

[arMILO]

To be a good card it has to have at least (unless I'm mistaken) maybe a couple of these:

A good type in the metagame.
No bad weaknesses.
Free retreat.
A good attack.
Good HP.

Jumpluff has: No bad weakness, Free retreat and a good attack.
Gyarados has: A good attack and good HP for a stage 1.
Luxray GL Lv.X has: A good type in the metagame, free retreat, a good attack (with SP support) and good HP.

I could go on and on so I'll just leave it there.

That's pretty much my standard. (Maybe with a few exceptions)

why can't crobat be one of those exceptions? And with the same logic, who decided shiftry wasn't meta material? it has no bad weakness, a pretty good type in the metagame, free retreat with moonlight, good HP, and a good attack.

Blastoise doesn't have SP support. It has a clunky stage 2 for support. Blastoise has a horrid weakness.
It does have horrid weakness, but let's just say i'm magic, and poof! no more e gain, turns, or sprays. who would really play SP's anymore? I understand this isn't the best argument to make but answer my question, everyone, please.

Most decks play Unown G. For one card in your deck, one basic in your deck too, you can counter this. It isn't like some horrid clunky stage 2 tech you have to get out to counter it. It's a basic Pokemon.
You are very correct there sir.

I agree, it isn't good now. And also that it could be BDIF for all we know in the future, but noone can tell that yet so I'm just talking about now.

Point 2 is fair enough but noone can tell what will happen with it, it could be BDIF, or just a laughing stock. Point 1 I dunno. If we're talking about every card made then yes it's good. If we're comparing it, to say, I dunno, good decks at the moment then no.

fair enough, i can see eye to eye with this :smile:

 

[baby mario]

head on over to the beach if you don't know what'll be in future sets. the generic answer does go a long way, but in the same state of mind, let's all go tell our dogs to sit when they're already sitting. it's redundant, it's blatantly obvious and doesn't change anything (except for maybe your dog will mistake your telling them to sit for come or lay :lol: )

I agree that the Luxray argument shouldn't need to be repeated, but yet the question keeps being asked as to whether Crobat Prime is good.

I'm aware of the translations on the Beach, but after seeing what we got in Unleashed compared to what was in the Japanese sets, there doesn't seem to be much point in speculating as to when, if ever, Crobat Prime will be playable. I bet a lot of people were planning their Nats decks with Vileplume in mind . . .

I'll just keep an open mind and see what happens. The current format is giving me more than enough to think about right now.

 

[arMILO]

I agree that the Luxray argument shouldn't need to be repeated, but yet the question keeps being asked as to whether Crobat Prime is good.

I'm aware of the translations on the Beach, but after seeing what we got in Unleashed compared to what was in the Japanese sets, there doesn't seem to be much point in speculating as to when, if ever, Crobat Prime will be playable. I bet a lot of people were planning their Nats decks with Vileplume in mind . . .

I'll just keep an open mind and see what happens. The current format is giving me more than enough to think about right now.

Thank you for keeping an open mind.

 

[nnaann]

That's just covering your tracks, "oh i forgot they have a benched luxray" and i would never say never as far as being outsped (jumpluff sure does seem to do it consistently) and again covering for your tracks, is this luxchomp or lady gaga? luxchomp last i checked doesn't play dialga. and you can't say i won't set up a crobat every turn, i could get none, i could get three ( i've done it) and i'm not saying it not always going to be a win for crobat, it'll even lose 80% of the time to luxchomp but it can be beaten.

I acknowledge the fact that the guys at PCL aren't perfect, they aren't demigods, you got me there.....
But you seriously think they don't know what they're doing when they release cards? True that they release dismal cards but do you think that it's a coincidence that Blaziken FB( from SV mind you) is possibly the best tech for kingdra prime? based on how easy it is to get and get ready to attack. I also never accused you of playing Luxchomp, i would never falsely accuse you of such a horrid crime... but, if given the choice right now of being able to play crobat or luxchomp, which you honestly choose? I'm not theorymon'ing, i'm simply pointing out what WILL happen. I apologize for leaving any comments vague and too open to interpretation, I'll try not to be so sloppy next time. I will give you this, luxchomp is a beast, and it is very difficult to beat, i have played the deck, i have played against it. i do not like being on the wrong end of it.

I thought it would be obvious that a Luxchomp deck might have Luxray benched? I was refering to Crobat Prime never outspeeding Luxchomp. They're both the same deck? It doesn't matter what you've done, unless your deck has an amazing recovery engine like Jumpluff - you will struggle to replace a Crobat Prime every turn.

Alot of cards created have no purpose, and even those created with obvious combos like Ampharos/Manetric, Blastcatty may have less wins then decks with alot less snergy like Luxchomp. To be honest, the matchup is likely to be alot more in Luxchomps favour. I'd be suprised if Crobat can manage 1/5 wins against it.

It is theorymon'ing because you're essentially guessing how a game could be played out, and thus what the matchup is. The most accurate way of knowing a matchup and how to play against a certain deck is just to play against it. I'll happily play you on Redshark if you want.

Who said Luxchomp was bad/unfun to play for everyone? I've been playing it on and off since December and still enjoy playing it the same, regardless of how much others play it. People might have different opions on they find fun in the game, but most people would value winning over being different.

If you want to try and send Luxchomp out the meta, thats great. But Crobat Prime isn't going to do it ( or see many wins at all ). Theres lots of decks out there ( some undiscovered ) which could be Tier 1, and maybe beat Luxchomp. Theres lots of underplayed decks/techs which cause Luxchomp problems.

 

[czech59]

Luxchomp is bad/unfun to play for many people, those being the players who do not have the financial assets to spend upwards of $80 on a single card, just to learn 'its better if its a 2-2 line'.

I'm not bashing kids whose parents buy their cards for them, or people with jobs who choose to spend their money on Pokemon, I'm just speaking for the decently large amount of players who don't have the ability to throw around that much money and subsequently (like myself) will never be in the possession of a Luxray GL Lv X.

 

[Deoxys Cool Form]

Luxchomp is bad/unfun to play for many people, those being the players who do not have the financial assets to spend upwards of $80 on a single card, just to learn 'its better if its a 2-2 line'.

I'm not bashing kids whose parents buy their cards for them, or people with jobs who choose to spend their money on Pokemon, I'm just speaking for the decently large amount of players who don't have the ability to throw around that much money and subsequently (like myself) will never be in the possession of a Luxray GL Lv X.

The other day two ended on eBay. One was £25.00 which is about $55.00 and the other sold for £10.00 with a Raichu Lv.X, a Lucario Lv.X and another Lv.X. (It wasn't mint, but it was certainly playable) (about $20.00 - $25.00)

I know it's a pain but if you look hard enough it's possible.

 

[PokeChampofPokeBeach]

No one finds dragging up Claydol with Reversal, quad poison it, then letting it die on your turn, preventing them from using Powers and netting you another chance to do something before they can, just purely, simply, amazing? Guard your Claydol, go ahead; your active is bat fodder, baby. Guard your active; Claydol won't be helping you this game. Guard them both; boom, headshot! with Relicanth SV to kill something, maybe even Claydol if they gave you a Stadium. Sure, you can retreat out of Poison; you'll get sniped for 30 and get even closer to losing. Crobat Gs can work for both active and bench damage, you know.

Luxchomp's scary, obviously. Relicanth hits it for weakness and you can use Mewtwo to wall them, providing they're not playing DGX.

You can halt its damage output with smart Guard plays, but obviously no one is going to play this card alone. Every Crobat deck's probably going to have some formof backup, so it's not as simple as "I attach G, I win."

It's not a horrible card. It's got its weaknesses, of course, but what deck doesn't?

 

[Deoxys Cool Form]

No one finds dragging up Claydol with Reversal, quad poison it, then letting it die on your turn, preventing them from using Powers and netting you another chance to do something before they can, just purely, simply, amazing? Guard your Claydol, go ahead; your active is bat fodder, baby. Guard your active; Claydol won't be helping you this game. Guard them both; boom, headshot! with Relicanth SV to kill something, maybe even Claydol if they gave you a Stadium. Sure, you can retreat out of Poison; you'll get sniped for 30 and get even closer to losing. Crobat Gs can work for both active and bench damage, you know.

Luxchomp's scary, obviously. Relicanth hits it for weakness and you can use Mewtwo to wall them, providing they're not playing DGX.

You can halt its damage output with smart Guard plays, but obviously no one is going to play this card alone. Every Crobat deck's probably going to have some formof backup, so it's not as simple as "I attach G, I win."

It's not a horrible card. It's got its weaknesses, of course, but what deck doesn't?

I'd Unown G my Claydol.

You poison active and I lose 40. I retreat for another Pokemon and hurt your Crobat. You then do 30 to the original Pokemon? So that's 70 damage in a couple of turns? That's poor. Why don't you play Kingdra and do basically both of Crobat Primes attacks in one? Has the same horrid Weakness but it isn't x2.

To be honest, you don't even need Unown G a lot of the time to beat this. Retreating is all you need.

And Nidoqueen can make that 30 to anything 10 to anything. It really weakens the deck.

Any deck with SSU can hurt you.

 

[nnaann]

Luxchomp is bad/unfun to play for many people, those being the players who do not have the financial assets to spend upwards of $80 on a single card, just to learn 'its better if its a 2-2 line'.

I'm not bashing kids whose parents buy their cards for them, or people with jobs who choose to spend their money on Pokemon, I'm just speaking for the decently large amount of players who don't have the ability to throw around that much money and subsequently (like myself) will never be in the possession of a Luxray GL Lv X.

Most people own a Luxray GL Lv X, and alot of people are willing to lend cards. Despite a 2-2 line being better, 3-1 is competitive and has it's own advantages. Like DCF7 has said, they're avaliable cheap enough if you look. I've seen them sell for $40, and I bought one even cheaper. The price of the cards in it don't really effect how much fun the deck is to play once you get those cards.

 

[pokemon54]

just for fun. i put it with gengar sf. its fun. i also put dp dusknoir for nidoqueen.

 

[sKizor]

personally, i think think people are focusing to much on the card itself and not the deck that can be built around it. there have been cards in the past that people thought were dismal at best. then look what happened, it won nationals. case in point raieggs. absolutely noone saw this deck coming. then when it started winning everyone was playing it. i think it will be the same story with crobat prime. its not what you play, but how you play it.

 

[Kayle]

No one finds dragging up Claydol with Reversal, quad poison it, then letting it die on your turn, preventing them from using Powers and netting you another chance to do something before they can, just purely, simply, amazing?

Yeah, because you're going to outspeed your opponent (who may or may not play Claydol to begin with, see: smart Luxchomp players) and grab a successful Reversal every game.

GUARD was never the problem, free retreat was the problem, and Claydol may not have it but when your opponent can drop DCE to retreat it you have problems.

 

[BlackBrock]

Cro Prime is Great, its easy and fast to get out, takes 1 freakin energy to deal 60 damage a turn or snipe the bench for 30. also you can run 2 Weezing techs and turn 60 damage a turn into 80 a turn which would KO anyone in format. can tech Dugtrio so if they retreat tahts 20 damage for reatreat (you can stack up sinkhole so lets say 40, 100 damage for just retreating? ether way your dead) you can free retreat, snipe the bench for 30, add in E-belt and make it 50 to the bench, throw in Kingdra Prime and thats 60 sniping or 90 with poison... o wait didnt touch on Crobat G.... theres more you can do with Crobat Prime than almost anyother card... its like tricking out a freakin Honda Civic... its endless

deff agree with sKizor - once Croprime makes it big in the tournys coming up, people will start playing it and those who said its mainly beginners who have been taking and amping it up.... will be play cro prime also... lol, personally i've made a proxy deck of it and love it, but im runnig Ursaring Prime....

 

[Deoxys Cool Form]

Cro Prime is Great, its easy and fast to get out, takes 1 freakin energy to deal 60 damage a turn or snipe the bench for 30. also you can run 2 Weezing techs and turn 60 damage a turn into 80 a turn which would KO anyone in format. can tech Dugtrio so if they retreat tahts 20 damage for reatreat (you can stack up sinkhole so lets say 40, 100 damage for just retreating? ether way your dead) you can free retreat, snipe the bench for 30, add in E-belt and make it 50 to the bench, throw in Kingdra Prime and thats 60 sniping or 90 with poison... o wait didnt touch on Crobat G.... theres more you can do with Crobat Prime than almost anyother card... its like tricking out a freakin Honda Civic... its endless

deff agree with sKizor - once Croprime makes it big in the tournys coming up, people will start playing it and those who said its mainly beginners who have been taking and amping it up.... will be play cro prime also... lol

You mean 40 damage, right? You mean a 40 damage attack, which Unown G stops and retreating owns is. . . 'Great?' So you could play down 2 Weezing and they just go 'Yawn' Unown G and all that effort you put in to get it out is. . . Gone? So we're talking Dugtrio, Weezing etc? That'd be way to clunky, and will get rid of one of the only things Crobat has. Speed. Expert Belt won't add damage to the bench. It only works on the active Pokemon. Ohhhh so now we're talking ftw. A Crobat G, Crobat Prime, Kingdra Prime, Weezing and Dugtrio deck. Yeah that just sounds horrid.

I'll happily remember this post. Crobat Prime will do good at big tournaments. Let's see how it does at Nats, shall we?

 

[Kayle]

Hey hey hey, now, Crobat has some merit. Just not a LOT.

The attack does more than 40 damage; it always does the initial 40 (unless it's to Steelix or something similar) and then if they don't get rid of it it does 40-80 more. That's pretty intense. The problem is that it's pretty easy to get rid of.

However, it's not so easy to survive having all your major Pokemon take 40 unless you're returning easy KOs. The problem, is that Crobat isn't hard to KO. And reversal does present an issue, but it's unreliable - I wouldn't bet on a deck based on Reversal making major wins.

 

[Deoxys Cool Form]

Hey hey hey, now, Crobat has some merit. Just not a LOT.

The attack does more than 40 damage; it always does the initial 40 (unless it's to Steelix or something similar) and then if they don't get rid of it it does 40-80 more. That's pretty intense. The problem is that it's pretty easy to get rid of.

However, it's not so easy to survive having all your major Pokemon take 40 unless you're returning easy KOs. The problem, is that Crobat isn't hard to KO. And reversal does present an issue, but it's unreliable - I wouldn't bet on a deck based on Reversal making major wins.

If I did play Crobat Prime I'd much rather run Luxray GL Lv.X, Crobat G's and Poketurns over Reversal.

 

[Kayle]

Yeah, see, that might actually make sense.