Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Durant and the Spirit of the Game

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Crinus said:
It happens to every company at some point.
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Well it's not happening now.

You don't understand this game, the players, the collectors, or the business.

I've already wasted too much time reading your posts. I won't be repeating that mistake.
 
Crinus said:
Well thats your opinion, I been here since 1998 and quite frankly I know too much.
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...aren't you the one who said "there has never been a deck like this before", yet did not know a thing about Lostgar or any of the past mill decks?

Glad to know we have such an expert in this debate. Where would the conversation be without you?
 
hakemo said:
...aren't you the one who said "there has never been a deck like this before", yet did not know a thing about Lostgar or any of the past mill decks?

Glad to know we have such an expert in this debate. Where would the conversation be without you?
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Yeah because I had no dealings in Pokemon from 2006-2010.

But apparently if I dont understand Collectors, players, and everything else involved in this game, then I am non existant and I dont own one of the most extensive collections of cards that I never bothered to list anywhere, and apparently if I dont understand players, I never been to leagues or tournaments.
 
Been playing this game since Base Set and Durant does not go against SOTG. You have failed to provide any argument that would prove otherwise.

Win condition? It's in the rule book

Frustrating to play against? So is every deck that sets up well (LostGar, TyRam, ZPST, The Truth, etc) which is EVERY deck

...
 
I think most people who has said that it goes against SOTG has provided very good reason.

The idea you dont need to knock out any pokemon and still win is quite cheap. Most likely TPCi did not know Durant would have that type of effect on the game, at least to win a couple cities.

like I said, why we even having this discussion if the deck loses more than wins anyway?
 
Crinus said:
Yeah because I had no dealings in Pokemon from 2006-2010.

But apparently if I dont understand Collectors, players, and everything else involved in this game, then I am non existant and I dont own one of the most extensive collections of cards that I never bothered to list anywhere, and apparently if I dont understand players, I never been to leagues or tournaments.
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Crinus said:
I think most people who has said that it goes against SOTG has provided very good reason.

The idea you dont need to knock out any pokemon and still win is quite cheap. Most likely TPCi did not know Durant would have that type of effect on the game, at least to win a couple cities.

like I said, why we even having this discussion if the deck loses more than wins anyway?
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Every post you make is simply dripping with logical fallacies, but my biggest gripe is with your latest post.

How- I ask again, HOW- is winning through one of the three (four) viable winning conditions, in any way, shape, or form, cheap? It is a winning condition BECAUSE IT IS A WAY FOR SOMEBODY TO WIN. If you want cheap, then complain about people losing through technicalities, like accidentally drawing an extra prize, or adding an extra card to their hand by mistake.

No, TCPi KNEW that Durant would be able to mill, and they introduced that so it would. And while I have just as much physical evidence as you do about the situation, my circumstantial evidence of "they're a professional company who, after so many years, obviously has SOME idea of what they're doing" should do enough.

Technically and generally speaking, most deck archetypes lose more than they win, don't they? And if we're talking about personal records, I've won about 80% of my Durant games.

Either way, win percentage does not matter. This is about whether or not it is ETHICAL to play this deck, or even more to the point, how people should be treating the players of the deck. Please read the original post before you make such ridiculously rude remarks.
 
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Is their really any argument in saying it DOESNT use one of the winning conditions?


But as for durant decks winning a cities, I know some Cities is very lack luster in competition to. Which is expected at any tournament sometimes. But Durant is basically taking advantage of many deck types either being absent or having to not even face them.

It that bad? Well no since as said before its a diverse game and different things is going to win, if Durant starts winning something say like a nationals or regionals, then their is ground to stand on about it.
 
Durant = Within the SOTG. There is NO argument to the contrary. Literally NO argument. I'd quote it if there was one, but there is none.

Even if Durant won Worlds there would be NO argument. (though I highly doubt it would)
 
Crinus said:
Is their really any argument in saying it DOESNT use one of the winning conditions?


But as for durant decks winning a cities, I know some Cities is very lack luster in competition to. Which is expected at any tournament sometimes. But Durant is basically taking advantage of many deck types either being absent or having to not even face them.

It that bad? Well no since as said before its a diverse game and different things is going to win, if Durant starts winning something say like a nationals or regionals, then their is ground to stand on about it.
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As hakemo just pointed out, this discussion is not whether Durant is BDIF, so whether it ever wins a regionals or Nationals is totally beside the point, so I won't argue it.

Here, for the illumination of those discussing this topic, and to illuminate what else in Pokemon has done this, are a few of the cards that have taken advantage of the decking win condition, throughout the years:

[gal=45979]Moltres[/gal]

1999: Moltres was the first Pokemon card to have any kind of mill attack. Unfortunately, since there was no good energy acceleration for Fire, it was much too slow and saw little use.

[gal=31480]Rhyperior[/gal]

2007: After a real long time, milling made a second, strong appearance in the TCG. This card milled 3 every time it evolved. It also had a large amount of HP (140) that would allow it to survive an attack or two before you could get it out of play so that you could evolve it again. Once Rhyperior LvX came out, you could combo some milling along with a really strong attacker. It was never a Tier 1 deck, but I and others did manage to use it to make the Top Cut of the 2007 Professor Cup (won me a DS!)

[gal=45520]Flygon Lv.X[/gal]
2009: Flygon Lv.X used Memory Berry to use an attack from its Basic Pokemon to trap a non attacking Pokemon in the Active Position while it "eroded" the opponent's deck away. You want to talk about "unfair" and "against the spirit of the game"? Not only did this deck mill away the opponent's deck, it did it while not allowing them to do a single thing to develop their own strategy! Durant doesn't hold a candle to the "unfairness" of this!

[gal=51019]Magmortar[/gal]
2010: Here's another card that is also legal right now! This compares pretty directly to the old Moltres, but you get a chance to keep your fire! Plus, there is good Fire acceleration from Emboar and lots of ways to get energy back from the discard.

Over the years, I have played each and every mill deck that this game has offered.
I have played some of them against Pokemon Card Labs and Creatures staff at the Staff events we hold after every World championship.
They all loved seeing those decks played.
Do I lack Spirit of the Game?
 
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Pokepop, Fouchet Lock was not against the spirit of the game. It was a genius idea and it took a bit of skill to play. It didn't take advantage of the rules, so how is it against the spirit of the game?
 
Durant isn't breaking Spirit of the Game. That burden is on the players. When you're learning to play Pokemon, you should be more aware of all three of the ways to win or lose.

Durant doesn't affect Spirit of the Game. The Players do.
 
Not a deck against SotG. Its annoying to play against and makes one salty when they lose to it, but its not against SotG.

I think the thing that annoys me more is that it wins in swiss then is auto-loss in top cut, so its effectively killing off good decks in swiss then losing to sometimes mediocre decks (which is part of the reason we're seeing a really strange amount of variance in decks that are winning.. not really a bad thing, just a note)

Its an annoying deck, but to say its bdif or amazingly good is pretty delusional as it cannot win in Top cut games often/at all.
 
You forgot about Magmortar from the HGSS series but there is one thing you might want to keep in mind. yes these Pokemon mill but Moltres could not get a 'good' mill off because there was no good fire energy acceleration and moltres was in the format with Energy Removal and Super Energy Removal.

Rhyperior power was a come into play effect and it's a stage 2 Pokemon. Seeker was not around when it was released and I don't think Super Scoop Up was ether and not to mention Junk Arm. He did not see Broken Time Space to the next few sets and I think he was rotated when the card was released and if he was not, Power Spray, Mesprit and other power stoppers stopped him so he could not be consider as a mill option.

Flygon X was a in between turns effect for a total of 2 card by the time the next turn came around. it's helps get rid of your opponents resources but not fast enough and on top of that, it had to be active and you could only have a total of 2 in play, unless you used garchomp X.

They all had a drawback. Moltres had to discard energy, Rhyperior had to evolve and was a stage 2 and Flygon have a wait a turn or 2 to get the mill going. Durant has no drawbacks and can mill from turn 1 for 4 cards.

When the game start, the Durant players opponent only has a 47 card deck )(after drawing 7 card hand, putting down prize cards and drawing a card for their turn. That 48 card deck if durant goes first becomes 44, 43 when the other player draws for their turn. That 43 card deck turns to 40 if they play collecter.

it's too effective a mill for the way Pokemon is 'suppose' to work. We don't play 2 out or 3 games in swiss or use side decks to deal with things like that. A few card mill every 2 or 4 turns is fine but 4 every turn is just too much.
 
Crinus thinks the deck is dumb, that is his opinion. I find it funny the OP says "no hate one way or another," but the only person getting teamed up on is Crinus, who didn't "show hate," just stated his opinion.

I don't think it is a SOTG issue, but lets be honest in this discussion: it doesn't take a lot of skill to build a good Durant deck. It runs 4 Durant and a lot of cards to get those Durant in play. It runs a lot of cards to KEEP Durant in play. It runs a hand full of energy to attack. And it has more room that ANY deck for teching. So what techs? Energy disruption seems obvious. Catcher? Seems obvious. Even if one where to come up with a "creative" tech, for crying out loud, the deck has so much room to tech, I would think far less of the player as a deck builder if they couldn't come up with awesome techs.

And, to the person that said "I find myself needing more than 60 cards" (or whatever the exact quote was), if you've ever built a deck and hit 60 dead on and didn't feel the need to add something, your not doing it right in the first place. I have NEVER built a deck first time and came up with 60 cards. I ALWAY sit about 62-65 and have to make "tough" cuts. With Durant having so much tech room, I don't see those cuts being near as tough.

I'm not knocking it as a legitimate deck or legitimate strategy. But, again, lets not get crazy about how hard it is to build a deck that relies on the luck of what you are discarding and only requires 4 (5, if you count rotom) Pokemon.
 
GodBlessAmerica said:
Pokepop, Fouchet Lock was not against the spirit of the game. It was a genius idea and it took a bit of skill to play. It didn't take advantage of the rules, so how is it against the spirit of the game?
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It's not. I'm saying that that deck competed at Nationals and at Worlds, so if it's a fine deck, then so is Durant.
 
vaporeon said:
You forgot about Magmortar from the HGSS series but there is one thing you might want to keep in mind. yes these Pokemon mill but Moltres could not get a 'good' mill off because there was no good fire energy acceleration and moltres was in the format with Energy Removal and Super Energy Removal.
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Yes, I had meant to include that. Added it in.

As for the rest of your post, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying Durant's bad because it's actually playable???
 
You know what is actually against the SotG? Dissing people for playing a legitimate deck, and winning in a completely fair, albeit mildly frustrating, way.
 
Raen said:
You know what is actually against the SotG? Dissing people for playing a legitimate deck, and winning in a completely fair, albeit mildly frustrating, way.
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This statement seems VERY familiar. Hmm... What other situation could be described like this.


Mario. The only deck to have an article written about why you shouldn't play it. :wink:



Flygon LvX's mill could be considered equal or better than Durant's, due to the fact that by the time you got it out, the opponent would already have a slimmer deck, meaning each card lost was worth more. Plus, you wouldn't be able to get revenge KO's easily, due to Trapinch's lock. Durant goes down to anything doing decent damage (1/2 decent if fire), leading to "easy" 6-prize strings.
 
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