Flipping heads on a plastic coin > 50% of the time

[losjackal]

I've seen two people recently claim that coin flips can result in heads > 50% of the time. The most recently claim was 8 times out of 10, and that they wouldn't reveal their secret. Really, what secret is there besides practice? Or even technique? At best, I imagine it's like shooting a free-throw. But a really good career free-throw record is 80% or greater...I have a hard time believing 80% can be achieved with a more difficult task like a coin flip. (For the record, it's more difficult because the variables are harder to control, and with less precision: distance from the center of the coin to your thumbnail, amount of force applied to the coin, upward velocity of your hand, initial starting height, and obstacles and surface bounce of where the coin may land).

So for discussion purposes, here is a simple test. Let's say you are the person who believes they can flip heads 8 times out of 10. Someone comes up to you and says let's bet on it. Flip a coin, and if you flip heads I'll pay you 20 cents. But if you flip tails, you pay me 80 cents. Would you play that game? How many times?

What if I came to you and said one coin flip, 20 dollars and 80 dollars? Would you play that game?

What if the split was 25 and 75? In theory, if you are correct about your 8 out of 10, you'd play all day, because the odds are in your favor.

Discuss.

 

[Charranitar]

You kind of went crazy at the end there and stopped making sense. But it's common knowledge that coin flips can be manipulated and those Pikachu dice are just bad.

 

[Pokepower22]

They cant ban the coins even if they can be manipulated-To me its basically if you can manipulate them,are you willing to ruin the game by doing this or play properly?

 

[Vegeta ss4]

I'm good at coin flips, as far as I am concerned, it can be learn and should be legal. I usually roll dice usually because I'd rather not make someone mad about the skills of the flip. I do think it is easily attainable with the ability to flip heads 80% of the time. I really encourage people to try the skill.

 

[psychup2034]

Place the coin on your slightly curved, but horizontal, index finger. Dig your thumb nail directly into your index finger although not too hardly. Place the coin such that only about 1/8 of the area of the coin is directly above your thumb nail, also keeping in mind that you need to flip with the same side facing upward every time. Flick upward gently. By minimizing the surface area your thumb that contacts the coin when you flip, you're decreasing the overall angular momentum of the system, thus better controlling the "number of rotations" that the coin takes in the air.

Learn the amount of force (how gentle you need to flick your thumb) it takes to flip a coin such that it rotates exactly 3 times before landing. Finally, you can lift your hand up as you are flipping in order to give the optical illusion that your coin has gained sufficient height to qualify as a legitimate flip (defined by those statistically-challenged individuals who set the minimum height of flip as "shoulder height").

Practice this for about half an hour and you should be getting around 52-55% heads.

I remember my results (on a Salamence coin from EX: Dragons) were approximately 880/1500 heads before I gave up. That was also the week I started exclusively using dice when playing Pokemon.

 

[losjackal]

Thanks psychup2034. 55% is what I could imagine too, so woul you agree 80% doesn't seem likely?

Still looking for someone to take me up on my bet. Or when it comes down to a single critical flip, like it does in a real game, are you 80% sure you're going to flip heads?

 

[psychup2034]

Thanks psychup2034. 55% is what I could imagine too, so woul you agree 80% doesn't seem likely?

Still looking for someone to take me up on my bet. Or when it comes down to a single critical flip, like it does in a real game, are you 80% sure you're going to flip heads?

80% is unlikely, but possible. Keep in mind, losjackal, that a coin flip machine (with everything being equal, including force applied, weight of coin, air currents, room temperature, etc.) will be able to get the same result 100% of the time.

If a person has a good propensity to develop muscle memory from his flips, I can see that an 80% clip is possible. Keep in mind that I spent half an hour, and was able to get it to maybe 52% heads. In a week, I was able to get it up to 58% heads (about 880/1500). I think it's entirely possible that someone who practices for a month could get it up as high as 70%, and someone with an extraordinary amount of muscle control could get it up to 80%.

Plain and simple, coin flips aren't fair. They're legal, but not fair. The Japanese players abuse the crap out of this system, as they view the ability to flip heads on a coin as a skill. I think it will end up taking someone who makes a Youtube video actually flipping 600/1000 on a Pokemon coin for TPCi to start a conversation with Japan about banning coins.

I think anyone with an introductory course in statistics taught by a competent instructor would know that a coin flip is easily manipulated because the main variables that determine the outcome of a flip can be easily controlled by a human. I just think that (1) Japan's stubbornness and (2) a reluctance to deviate from the status quo prevents this positive change from happening to the game. It's really sad that coins are still legal. It's really, really sad. It shows how little Japan (and by extention, TPCi) cares about keeping this game fair.

 

[ShadowGuard]

Examples of Unsporting Conduct: Cheating include:
 Drawing extra cards.
 Taking cards from the discard pile and adding them to your hand or deck.
 Offering some form of compensation to an opponent for a concession.
 Altering match results after the conclusion of the match.
 Playing with marked cards.
 Lying to event staff.
 Arbitrarily adjusting the Special Conditions or damage counters put on any Pokémon in play.
 Use of dubious game actions intended to deceive your opponent into making misplays.
 Attempting to manipulate a random result.
 Stacking your deck.

Recommended Starting Penalty:
Tier 1: Disqualification
Tier 2: Disqualification

Just to make sure you know what this is about...

 

[psychup2034]

Just to make sure you know what this is about...

Everyone knows about what the tournament rules state, but this is not a rule that is easily enforced. It is impossible to tell the difference between a fair flip and a manipulated flip. They look exactly the same.

If everyone always followed the rules, we wouldn't need judges.

 

[JandPDS]

Everyone knows about what the tournament rules state, but this is not a rule that is easily enforced. It is impossible to tell the difference between a fair flip and a manipulated flip. They look exactly the same.

If everyone always followed the rules, we wouldn't need judges.

80% is right if you dont do the mininum required amount of flips. That is why I allways request that my opponenets use a die instead of a coin.

 

[grassmaster239]

Just to make sure you know what this is about...

Gl trying to prove that they are manipulating their coins. Any time I flip a coin, I'm hoping for heads. That could be manipulating it.

 

[psychup2034]

Gl trying to prove that they are manipulating their coins. Any time I flip a coin, I'm hoping for heads. That could be manipulating it.

Hoping for a heads is not manipulating it. Intentionally controlling your muscles while you flip your coin in a way such that you believe that the outcome is no longer 50/50 is manipulation.

 

[cabd]

80% is right if you dont do the mininum required amount of flips. That is why I allways request that my opponenets use a die instead of a coin.

Sadly all you can do is request. They are under no obligation to do so.

 

[Vegeta ss4]

Sadly all you can do is request. They are under no obligation to do so.

I have definitely been forced to.

 

[cabd]

I have definitely been forced to.

Then they did so outside of the rules guidelines and you should have appealed to the judge, or the head judge. They CANNOT force you to use dice.

 

[bullados]

Then they did so outside of the rules guidelines and you should have appealed to the judge, or the head judge. They CANNOT force you to use dice.

Correction. They cannot force you to use a randomizer other than the coins found in the TPCi theme decks (and likely and IMO, soon to be the dice found in the Plasma box). If you are using a legal tender coin that is not one of the PCD coins, a Judge can determine that the coin is not fair and find some other randomizer for said player to use (usually a die).

 

[Envoyofduels]

Correction. They cannot force you to use a randomizer other than the coins found in the TPCi theme decks (and likely and IMO, soon to be the dice found in the Plasma box). If you are using a legal tender coin that is not one of the PCD coins, a Judge can determine that the coin is not fair and find some other randomizer for said player to use (usually a die).

A legal tender coin I found to be more 50/50 then those plastic coins and dices

 

[bullados]

A legal tender coin I found to be more 50/50 then those plastic coins and dices

I'm basically quoting the rules. Skip to section 3.5.

 

[Envoyofduels]

I'm basically quoting the rules. Skip to section 3.5.

i know and I am just telling you my experiences.

 

[psychup2034]

I'm basically quoting the rules. Skip to section 3.5.

The rules are allowing an unfair form of randomization. Coins are legal, but not fair. We all know what the rules are. Some of us also know that the rules allow something that is unfair.