GG vs. Plox

[JandPDS]

A desire to feel special is what this is all about

What we have here is a situation where some people are using a very popular deck that no one other then the card creators at PCL in Japan can seriously take credit for inventing. And these individuals are not content to play a deck that they cannot take credit for designing. So they take this existing deck that everyone is using, and when GE is out they added a claydoll (another pokemon card that everyone is using in tons of different decks) and declared to the world that this has become a brand new deck that is unique and not at all like the 100's of other decks out there that have 90%-95% the same exact list that they are using.

Honestly do we have to have a new name for every well known deck that is teched differently. I mean if one Magmortar deck has Magmortar and Firestarter Blazekin, is it truly a different deck then a Magmortar with Firestarter Typhlosian?

What about a Magmortar deck with Typhlosian and Delcatty? Is it really a different deck from a Magmortar deck with Typhlosian and Claydoll/Lunatone? Yes the decks aren't identical, but the main idea is the same in all of them. Build up a strong Magmortar ASAP, and all the other pokes are in there just to support Magmortar the best that they can.

GG/Plox is about all about the situation. If an AGRO T2 Gallade will win the game by OHKO'ing an opponents sole pokemon in play no "PLOX" player would ever Cileo for a Gardevoir over getting a Gallade for the win. Likewise of an opponent had lots of basics in play and is setting up to use lost of powers, no G&G player with a chance to ruin the setup by Psychic lock an opponent on T2 would ever pass on that and search for a Gallade instead. The deck decisions are based on whatever strategy would be the most beneficial at that time. I have won many games due to an Agro Gardevoir and I have won many games due to and Agro Gallade, just like what every other player who plays a deck with Gardevoir and Gallade has done.

 

[Ignatious]

The strategies are not different for the two decks.. I play what Team R would call G&G, but I still attack with Psy Lock more than anything else. I still use Wager and copied Wagers to my advantage, whenever I get a chance. I use more Gardies than Gallades and I run a 1-1 line of Claydol.

Know what?

That makes no difference. I still always have a Gallade in play. I always look back on games, recalling a vast majority of my prizes being flipped. I always Sonic Blade the crap out of heavy 130 HP beatsticks like Emp and Chomp. I greatly rely on Gallade, as a lot of times, it's just plain smarter to attack with Gallade than Gardevoir. I still use the tactics of a Plox deck... Are you saying a Plox deck wouldn't attack with Gallade when it's obviously the smarter move at the time?

Go ahead and flame me. This is my one and only post on this thread.

 

[The Captain]

The strategies are not different for the two decks.. I play what Team R would call G&G, but I still attack with Psy Lock more than anything else. I still use Wager and copied Wagers to my advantage, whenever I get a chance. I use more Gardies than Gallades and I run a 1-1 line of Claydol.

Know what?

That makes no difference. I still always have a Gallade in play. I always look back on games, recalling a vast majority of my prizes being flipped. I always Sonic Blade the crap out of heavy 130 HP beatsticks like Emp and Chomp. I greatly rely on Gallade, as a lot of times, it's just plain smarter to attack with Gallade than Gardevoir. I still use the tactics of a Plox deck... Are you saying a Plox deck wouldn't attack with Gallade when it's obviously the smarter move at the time?

Go ahead and flame me. This is my one and only post on this thread.

I agree with what you say to an extent, PLOX would not exist w/o galade. But honestly i've played both PLOX and GG and their are subtle differences in the way they play, it's more accurate to say that PLOX is a specialized GG varient, its sort of like running an essencial tech line in another deck that changes your play style. Like my general mindset when i played my first gg was get a quick gallade or gardevoir, then keep them comming. Now it get a quick claydol, then with that a gardevoir, then wager and lock. Dusknoir mid game, and Lv X late game.

 

[pikachu*]

Plox and GG, while similar, are very different, GG consists of more Gallade as well as being the main attacker and use Gardevoir as support/late gamer. While Plox uses Gardevoir as the main attacker and Gallade as support/OHKO'er.

 

[DarthPika]

Plox and GG, while similar, are very different, GG consists of more Gallade as well as being the main attacker and use Gardevoir as support/late gamer. While Plox uses Gardevoir as the main attacker and Gallade as support/OHKO'er.

Exactly. Plox uses Gallade somewhat like Metanite used Latios*. Bring it out to OHKO that big nasty ST2 that could cause problems for your deck.

 

[JandPDS]

I agree with what you say to an extent, PLOX would not exist w/o galade. But honestly i've played both PLOX and GG and their are subtle differences in the way they play, it's more accurate to say that PLOX is a specialized GG varient, its sort of like running an essencial tech line in another deck that changes your play style. Like my general mindset when i played my first gg was get a quick gallade or gardevoir, then keep them comming. Now it get a quick claydol, then with that a gardevoir, then wager and lock. Dusknoir mid game, and Lv X late game.

Yes, but this is not an unique strategy, no one played with Claydoll in the G&G decks in Citys, not because no one thought about it. It was becuase GE was not yet released when G&G was first in play. So in Citys players had to use Furret or Stantler to find cards that they needed, as the Claydoll option was not there.
No one is agrueing that Claydoll in not supperior to the previous search choices, but that the choice for Claydoll was so obvious when GE was released that trying to take credit for using it in your deck is almost as silly as trying to take credit for Comboing Gardevoir and Gallade in a deck in the first place.

Claydoll is a tech card, it can only do 40 damage and its sole purpose in the deck is to support the rest of the deck via its awsome pokepower. If Claydoll had a Body that said If a sychic: energy is attatched to Claydoll, Claydoll's type is now :fighting:sychic: and it had the exact same everything else, then no one would ever put it in a G&G deck.

A decks name should never depend on a card that is a support tech only. Techs improve a deck, but they do not make it. Otherwise a deck made up of Stantler, Furret, Dlecatty PK, Claydoll and Magneton PK would be unstoppable wouldnt it?

 

[billbilski]

The strategies are not different for the two decks.. I play what Team R would call G&G, but I still attack with Psy Lock more than anything else. I still use Wager and copied Wagers to my advantage, whenever I get a chance. I use more Gardies than Gallades and I run a 1-1 line of Claydol.

Know what?

That makes no difference. I still always have a Gallade in play. I always look back on games, recalling a vast majority of my prizes being flipped. I always Sonic Blade the crap out of heavy 130 HP beatsticks like Emp and Chomp. I greatly rely on Gallade, as a lot of times, it's just plain smarter to attack with Gallade than Gardevoir. I still use the tactics of a Plox deck... Are you saying a Plox deck wouldn't attack with Gallade when it's obviously the smarter move at the time?

Go ahead and flame me. This is my one and only post on this thread.

Austin - you are right on! I used a hybrid of the two yesterday at a BR. Half the games I held a continuos psylock and the other half I just beat the crap out of them with Gallade. Whatever it takes to get the win.......

 

[JandPDS]

Exactly. Plox uses Gallade somewhat like Metanite used Latios*. Bring it out to OHKO that big nasty ST2 that could cause problems for your deck.

DUH!!! This is exactly what every player does with a deck filled with Gardevoirs and Gallade cards. That is the very purpose of the deck. And the above reason is exactly why PLOX is the same deck as G&G, as both are played the same way because the are the same deck, because they have the same cards. You lock when it is beneficial and you OHKO any big thing when you need to. No one and I mean no one who plays with these cards would ever, ever do the opposite. No one would ever attack a T2 Empoleon with a Gardevoir, and no one would ever try to slow down a set up with Gallade. The deck is situational, and you attack with whatever Pokemon would best serve at that particular time in the game.

Garvdeoir and Gallade are not Basics, you dont start with either of them in play at the beginning of the game, you have to build them. And the order that you build them in is your choice the vast majority of the time, based on your best guess at which one would give you the more advantageous start in that particular game.

 

[The Captain]

Yes, but this is not an unique strategy, no one played with Claydoll in the G&G decks in Citys, not because no one thought about it. It was becuase GE was not yet released when G&G was first in play. So in Citys players had to use Furret or Stantler to find cards that they needed, as the Claydoll option was not there.
No one is agrueing that Claydoll in not supperior to the previous search choices, but that the choice for Claydoll was so obvious when GE was released that trying to take credit for using it in your deck is almost as silly as trying to take credit for Comboing Gardevoir and Gallade in a deck in the first place.

Claydoll is a tech card, it can only do 40 damage and its sole purpose in the deck is to support the rest of the deck via its awsome pokepower. If Claydoll had a Body that said If a sychic: energy is attatched to Claydoll, Claydoll's type is now :fighting:sychic: and it had the exact same everything else, then no one would ever put it in a G&G deck.

A decks name should never depend on a card that is a support tech only. Techs improve a deck, but they do not make it. Otherwise a deck made up of Stantler, Furret, Dlecatty PK, Claydoll and Magneton PK would be unstoppable wouldnt it?

That changes the strategy alot tho. I'm saying that there are two ways(well more but we're comparing two now) to effectivly play a gardevoir galade deck, one IMO is the evolution of the other. The name really doesn't matter tho i but they are slightly different in how they play.

 

[JandPDS]

That changes the strategy alot tho. I'm saying that there are two ways(well more but we're comparing two now) to effectivly play a gardevoir galade deck, one IMO is the evolution of the other. The name really doesn't matter tho i but they are slightly different in how they play.

How are they different in how they play? If they both attack with Gardevoir at the same time in the same situation? And then they both attack with Gallade in the same time in the same situation? How then can they possibly be differnent?

 

[Darkwalker]

I've been playing G&G since Secret Wonders came out. My deck has evolved throughout the season as new sets and new cards arrived. Originally I used Furrett, then switched that out for Absol, then back to Furrett. Eventually Claydol found it's way into my deck because I did not have enough Furrett for both my son and I to play at states. Unfortunately for me I didn't fully alter the deck to work with Claydol and ended up getting a couple more Furrett before States. The reason I say unfortunately, is because I did terrible at both the states I played in since the deck used an established strategy (Furrett search, to set up Gallade, then Gardevoir). After States and losing many a Wager after I Keen Eye'd I rebuilt my deck which ended up actually being what was then being referred to as Plox. While the changes seemed small, the options and strategy in the deck multiplied quite a bit. Tech lines (Dusknoir and sometimes Cresselia X) and a different supporter setup altered the deck enough that I actually considered Plox a different (better) version of G&G because you have more options available and you can make G&G's Furrett ineffective.

To clarify this for those that don't seem to be able to see the differences between G&G and Plox here they are:

G&G --- Used Absol to disrupt or Stantler and Furrett to set up in the active role to start the game. Focused on getting Gallade out ASAP and racking as many prizes as you could as fast as you could. Seemed to lose steam as the game wore on since access to flipped over prizes disappeared.

Plox --- Used little to no "starters" and relied on Claydol and a quick Gardevoir to set up. Used Gallade to OHKO threats or disrupt with Sonic Blade. Abused the Claydol + Wager combo to constantly disrupt your opponent's hand. Used Dusknoir to limit their bench (even without it in play). Took a more steady approach by trying to Psychic Lock as often as possible to even further disrupt what your opponent was trying to do.

With Regionals over and MD out now, there seems to be a blurring as Claydol and Wager are used more and more and Furrett less and less. By the way G&G is not the only deck this has happened to this season. Magmortar/Typhlosion/Delcatty that was commonly played at Cities all over the place morphed in to Blaziken/Magmortar/Claydol for States. Saying BMC was the same deck as FireTruk, would probably annoy people just as much.

 

[Alazor]

Well, at least it's not called Ggoldilocks.

 

[edwarpy]

I always kinda liked Gardylocks.

 

[ryanvergel]

Yes, but this is not an unique strategy, no one played with Claydoll in the G&G decks in Citys, not because no one thought about it. It was becuase GE was not yet released when G&G was first in play. So in Citys players had to use Furret or Stantler to find cards that they needed, as the Claydoll option was not there.
No one is agrueing that Claydoll in not supperior to the previous search choices, but that the choice for Claydoll was so obvious when GE was released that trying to take credit for using it in your deck is almost as silly as trying to take credit for Comboing Gardevoir and Gallade in a deck in the first place.

Claydoll is a tech card, it can only do 40 damage and its sole purpose in the deck is to support the rest of the deck via its awsome pokepower. If Claydoll had a Body that said If a sychic: energy is attatched to Claydoll, Claydoll's type is now :fighting:sychic: and it had the exact same everything else, then no one would ever put it in a G&G deck.

A decks name should never depend on a card that is a support tech only. Techs improve a deck, but they do not make it. Otherwise a deck made up of Stantler, Furret, Dlecatty PK, Claydoll and Magneton PK would be unstoppable wouldnt it?

Not true. PLOX originated from a much different place.

 

[Scipio]

Still, one can argue that Plox is nothing more as the natural evolution of GG due to the addition of Claydol to the format.

Ergo, Plox = GG, just in a later stage.

 

[JandPDS]

Not true. PLOX originated from a much different place.

So what 'place' did PLOX originate, if the difference between PLOX and G&G is not the addition of Claydoll what is it then? You cant keep saying the decks are different than each other, and then give the reason that they are different than each other as being is because I said that they are different than each other.

A statement cannot prove itself. If I said the NY Mets are the best team in Baseball this year. and then you said, That cant be true as they are only a .500 win team this season, and the Marlins are much better. Why are you calling them the best team in baseball this year? I do not think you would accept my claim about the Mets if I just replied that they are the best team this season because of all the teams playing baseball this year, the NY Mets are the best one.

Now baseball is more subjective them Pokemon, because each player on each team is different, but halfway though the season, it becomes fairly clear who the better teams are and the Mets are not one of them no matter how much you may wish them to be.

Unlike Baseball, one Gallade is just like another Gallade, and One Gardevoir is just like another. This isnt the Gameboy game we are talking about. You have not trained your Gallades to be extra fast by working on their speed, and your Gardevoirs do not have much higher defense then the ones in my deck.
You still need two energy to Sonic Blade and three to Psychic cut. And it is not like only your Gardevoirs can stop powers with Psychic lock and mine only do 60 damage and nothing else. Your Gardevoir X does not have 30 more HP then my Gardevoir X, and you do not have access to a secret hidden item that I have not found as you play with the same pool of Trainer/Supporters that I do.

This 'difference in strategy' talk is also empty, as technically everyone has differing playing styles then others do. Some people prefer to rush the opponent with one attacker, and others prefer to hold back and wait until they have a built up a big bench before they start to get offensive. Most games you end up somewhere in between depending on the situation. I mean if you want to get technical about it we could both unwrap and use identical off the shelf INFINITE SPACE theme decks from GE. And after battling with them you could argue that the best strategy is to start off with getting out Palkia really quick and use him to take hits until you have time to build up a Whismer into a Loudred FTW.
While you point our that my inferior stately is to attack first with Arbok or Slowpoke and then build up a Loudred much latter in the game then you do.

So lets pretend that yes we both approach the Infinite space deck differently. You don't attack with Palkia but just use it as a wall to take damage as you build as many Loudreds on the bench as you can. While I attack early with Arbok and Slowpoke, and dont build up any Loudreds until later in the game. Does this "differing strategy" all of the sudden mean that your INFINITE SPACE theme deck, is now magically a completely new and unique deck them my INFINATE SPACE theme deck. Does the fact that you play your theme deck differently them mine make the decks different from each other. Of course not. They were both opened up at the same time and have identical 60 cards inside. They are the same deck no matter how the playing with it is approached.

Now if you compare decks that you call G&G with decks that you call PLOX. the cards are almost identical, in the fact that both decks feature Gallades to OHKO stuff and Gardevoir/Gardevoir X to telepass, psychic lock and Bring Down FTW in late game situations. Its not like PLOX never uses Psychic Cut to OHKO an undamaged 130 HP pokemon, as our Gallades only exist in the deck to use Sonic Blade so that Gardevoir X can bring down everything late in the game. And G&G players never ever use Psychic lock until all of the prizes have been flipped over.

In the Infinite Space theme deck example we can agree that the same deck is being played differently with separate strategies, but as you plainly see they are both still the same theme deck, identical in every way. But I completely deny that the deck strategy that you use with your PLOX deck is different than the strategy that I use with mine. And it is completely silly for people to keep asserting that the decks
are different from each other because we say that they are different. You can say the Sky is green all you want that does not make it true, and the NY Mets are mediocre this season no matter how much their fans may decry otherwise.

 

[phoenixback4fire]

In the Infinite Space theme deck example we can agree that the same deck is being played differently with separate strategies, but as you plainly see they are both still the same theme deck, identical in every way. But I completely deny that the deck strategy that you use with your PLOX deck is different than the strategy that I use with mine. And it is completely silly for people to keep asserting that the decks
are different from each other because we say that they are different. You can say the Sky is green all you want that does not make it true, and the NY Mets are mediocre this season no matter how much their fans may decry otherwise.

You're statements are priceless
GJ explaining this tho, seriously

 

[ryanvergel]

So what 'place' did PLOX originate, if the difference between PLOX and G&G is not the addition of Claydoll what is it then? You cant keep saying the decks are different than each other, and then give the reason that they are different than each other as being is because I said that they are different than each other.

A statement cannot prove itself. If I said the NY Mets are the best team in Baseball this year. and then you said, That cant be true as they are only a .500 win team this season, and the Marlins are much better. Why are you calling them the best team in baseball this year? I do not think you would accept my claim about the Mets if I just replied that they are the best team this season because of all the teams playing baseball this year, the NY Mets are the best one.

Now baseball is more subjective them Pokemon, because each player on each team is different, but halfway though the season, it becomes fairly clear who the better teams are and the Mets are not one of them no matter how much you may wish them to be.

Unlike Baseball, one Gallade is just like another Gallade, and One Gardevoir is just like another. This isnt the Gameboy game we are talking about. You have not trained your Gallades to be extra fast by working on their speed, and your Gardevoirs do not have much higher defense then the ones in my deck.
You still need two energy to Sonic Blade and three to Psychic cut. And it is not like only your Gardevoirs can stop powers with Psychic lock and mine only do 60 damage and nothing else. Your Gardevoir X does not have 30 more HP then my Gardevoir X, and you do not have access to a secret hidden item that I have not found as you play with the same pool of Trainer/Supporters that I do.

This 'difference in strategy' talk is also empty, as technically everyone has differing playing styles then others do. Some people prefer to rush the opponent with one attacker, and others prefer to hold back and wait until they have a built up a big bench before they start to get offensive. Most games you end up somewhere in between depending on the situation. I mean if you want to get technical about it we could both unwrap and use identical off the shelf INFINITE SPACE theme decks from GE. And after battling with them you could argue that the best strategy is to start off with getting out Palkia really quick and use him to take hits until you have time to build up a Whismer into a Loudred FTW.
While you point our that my inferior stately is to attack first with Arbok or Slowpoke and then build up a Loudred much latter in the game then you do.

So lets pretend that yes we both approach the Infinite space deck differently. You don't attack with Palkia but just use it as a wall to take damage as you build as many Loudreds on the bench as you can. While I attack early with Arbok and Slowpoke, and dont build up any Loudreds until later in the game. Does this "differing strategy" all of the sudden mean that your INFINITE SPACE theme deck, is now magically a completely new and unique deck them my INFINATE SPACE theme deck. Does the fact that you play your theme deck differently them mine make the decks different from each other. Of course not. They were both opened up at the same time and have identical 60 cards inside. They are the same deck no matter how the playing with it is approached.

Now if you compare decks that you call G&G with decks that you call PLOX. the cards are almost identical, in the fact that both decks feature Gallades to OHKO stuff and Gardevoir/Gardevoir X to telepass, psychic lock and Bring Down FTW in late game situations. Its not like PLOX never uses Psychic Cut to OHKO an undamaged 130 HP pokemon, as our Gallades only exist in the deck to use Sonic Blade so that Gardevoir X can bring down everything late in the game. And G&G players never ever use Psychic lock until all of the prizes have been flipped over.

In the Infinite Space theme deck example we can agree that the same deck is being played differently with separate strategies, but as you plainly see they are both still the same theme deck, identical in every way. But I completely deny that the deck strategy that you use with your PLOX deck is different than the strategy that I use with mine. And it is completely silly for people to keep asserting that the decks
are different from each other because we say that they are different. You can say the Sky is green all you want that does not make it true, and the NY Mets are mediocre this season no matter how much their fans may decry otherwise.

Maybe you're a bad player, but I've almost never Cut a pokemon with that much HP. You almost ALWAYS reduce to 50 and then Lock it later, Bring it down later, or Cut later. Flipping over all those prizes? That's stupid. That's how you LOSE to empoleon and garchomp!

Also, I know you're not trying to say you know the contents of our PLOX lists. Almost identical cards? Try to post my list, buddy. I BET my list is at LEAST ten cards off from yours. Identical list? Ours have typically been pretty far ahead of the curve. We've been very innovative with our PLOX lists and push its boundaries, not stick to the same lame stuff that donks people for wins. Lame furret engine (an improved stage 1 stantler susceptible to wager, weak to F, and who ISN'T psychic locking), more gallades than gardevoir? (to donk harder), lack of creative techs or trainers- I've never seen a good non-PLOX GG tech aside from Dusknoir. Everything just completely lacks creativity. Without Furret you're able to experiment SO much more with the pokemon that are in the deck, and our trainer and even energy styles are pretty different than most lists I've seen.


One thing I'm NOT going to do is give out any hints as to what is in or has been in our PLOX lists. The above is about how detailed I'll be of PLOX's contents. You think that GG isn't different than PLOX? Go right on thinking that. It doesn't affect me one bit, because I know how different my decklist looks than yours, and I know how much more differently mine functions than yours. And those are significant differences, so much so that PLOX was given a different name. Alex asked God/Chris "Cans it be the best Gardevoir list time now, plox?" and hence it came. Now we have PLOX.

-R

 

[Rambo1000]

plox is the only version of GG that stood a chance vs. magmortar!

 

[JandPDS]

plox is the only version of GG that stood a chance vs. magmortar!

OK I can accept this statement 100% It may well be true that yours techs may have created a better
VERSION of GG then the list you used in Cities. But that is all it is. It is a better version of G&G and is no way a separate deck from G&G. You want to say your list is superior, it may it may not be, we wont know until someday if we get the chance to play each other. But is and always will only be a version of G&G and nothing more.

Rynavergel
Listen you know who plays PLOX in Washington just as well as I do. I know these players called there decks G&G in cities and PLOX in states just like you did, I beat them in cities and in States/Regionals. and yes I lost to them in States/Regionals as well. I know the decks very well and I have seen them played extensively. So yes I know your deck very well, and theese players did not really play much differntly with the cards no matter what they called the deck at the time, GE came out and changed everyones deck not just yours, no matter what you say. I do agree Furret was more then a hindrance then a help to G&G, that is why I never played it either. But if you are facing a Magmorar X with 4 energy on it and nothing else on in play, are you really going to use Sonic balde and go for the 2HKO latter in the game, rather then the OHKO FTW, I hardly think so.