H.R. 2454 - "Cap & Trade": Your Take

[Articjedi]

There's a reason why India and China won't go on board with this: it isn't because the United States isn't doing a good enough job of "leading the world into the 21st century," but rather because they have no personal or economic incentive to do it. They see the types of legislation we're trying to pass, and they just laugh at it all because they know that it's hollow.

Maybe not so much hollow so much because they need to expand their industrial base, being second to third world economies. They'll worry about the consequences later. Honestly, this is probably the worst time to pass any environmental legislation, it's like Obama wants to get everything fixed at once regardless of whether we have the resources or not. Funny how we blame all the problems on carbon dioxide, we have worse environmental problems to deal with. How about the fact that water supplies worldwide, even this country, are starting to run low? Seems like nothing really lasts forever =\

 

[ninetales1234]

To all those that support: H.R. 2454 or whatever the bill is called: Who's read it? Do you know what's in it? How do you know it's going to accomplish what you want ?

 

[Dr. Mason]

I never said it made me the expert on it. All I said was that I probably know a LOT more than QuaChansey on the subject.

But have you observed the mathematics and science to it for yourself, or have you read or heard from people, news, or professors about this? Did you study it yourself? Then you don't know. So please stick IN MY OPINION on your preceeding posts.

In my opinion.

 

[drrty byl]

Funny how we blame all the problems on carbon dioxide, we have worse environmental problems to deal with. How about the fact that water supplies worldwide, even this country, are starting to run low? Seems like nothing really lasts forever =\

My thoughts exactly. Air quality in urban areas, potable water availability and non-biodegradable waste are all very real environmental concerns that we have resources to deal with in an effective manner.

Something's fishy when part of the solution to climate change is the subsidization of brand-new automobiles.

Not to stir the conspiracy pot too much, but don't certain business interests stand to benefit far more from the passage of climate change legislation than average humans?

Goldman Sachs is active in the markets for carbon emissions, SOx, Renewable Energy Credits and weather derivatives, among other climate related commodities. Additionally, we have created new financial products to help our clients manage the risks posed by climate change.

http://www2.goldmansachs.com/citizenship/environment/business-initiatives.html

Is it just a coincidence that the current administration is full of ex-GS employees and lobbyists?

Can anyone give a specific explanation of what "green jobs" are?

 

[DarthPika]

I haven't gone over it in great detail yet, but yes, I do know the science behind it. I did study it my self so I do know.

 

[Missingno]

My thoughts exactly. Air quality in urban areas, potable water availability and non-biodegradable waste are all very real environmental concerns that we have resources to deal with in an effective manner.

Something's fishy when part of the solution to climate change is the subsidization of brand-new automobiles.

Not to stir the conspiracy pot too much, but don't certain business interests stand to benefit far more from the passage of climate change legislation than average humans?


http://www2.goldmansachs.com/citizenship/environment/business-initiatives.html

Is it just a coincidence that the current administration is full of ex-GS employees and lobbyists?

Can anyone give a specific explanation of what "green jobs" are?

This is more or less what State of Fear is about. ;P

 

[Dr. Mason]

I haven't gone over it in great detail yet, but yes, I do know the science behind it. I did study it my self so I do know.

Did you learn this by using your own instruments to collect data, or did you read it in a book? That's the big question.

Anything you read is shaky data, because anyone can lie.Of course, you can't teach yourself everythiung there is to know, so on some things you'll have to take the risk.

But on something as important as global warming? Don't tell me you really understand it unless you've experimented and done the math yourself, if you're professional and efficient.

Otherwise, you're just another guy, and I can't place enough faith in your opinion to take you truly seriously.

In my opinion.

 

[Articjedi]

My thoughts exactly. Air quality in urban areas, potable water availability and non-biodegradable waste are all very real environmental concerns that we have resources to deal with in an effective manner.

Something's fishy when part of the solution to climate change is the subsidization of brand-new automobiles.

Not to stir the conspiracy pot too much, but don't certain business interests stand to benefit far more from the passage of climate change legislation than average humans?

So they gain from it, that's not a big deal, more money in their pocket more jobs for us. Isn't that the game?

There's going to be a point where we'll need to transition away from oil, if it's not the next decade then definitely in the one after that. The best case scenario picks peak oil at 2050, I really doubt that's the case and it'll probably be earlier. If so, we need to at least start on the infrastructure and technologies that will allow us to make the transition.

BTW, I hate hybrids, they're the most overrated vehicle as far as being "green" I've ever seen. The battery causes more environmental damage than any amount of carbon emissions ever could. But we're going to need something in the interim when we finally make an electric engine with a decent range.

And Supes, don't bash people that don't do the research too much. There's scientific review papers that do nothing but look at other people's research and come to a conclusion based on collating massive amounts of data from other research papers.

 

[Dr. Mason]

So they gain from it, that's not a big deal, more money in their pocket more jobs for us. Isn't that the game?

There's going to be a point where we'll need to transition away from oil, if it's not the next decade then definitely in the one after that. The best case scenario picks peak oil at 2050, I really doubt that's the case and it'll probably be earlier. If so, we need to at least start on the infrastructure and technologies that will allow us to make the transition.

BTW, I hate hybrids, they're the most overrated vehicle as far as being "green" I've ever seen. The battery causes more environmental damage than any amount of carbon emissions ever could. But we're going to need something in the interim when we finally make an electric engine with a decent range.

And Supes, don't bash people that don't do the research too much. There's scientific review papers that do nothing but look at other people's research and come to a conclusion based on collating massive amounts of data from other research papers.

Pick one person to do your triple bypass--someone who's done ten of them or someone who read about it in a novel.