Is there such a thing as God?

[eauxmar]

Yes, God is real. Read the Bible. It has it all there.

What is written in the bible is true, because it is divinely inspired. God's existence is affirmed in the bible. Therefore God exists?

Sounds good. I'm sold, circular logic always gets me.

 

[Absoltrainer]

Yes, God is real. Read the Bible. It has it all there.

Prove the Bible is really God's words plz
Perhaps a crazy man wrote up a book one day, titled it Bible and made a LOT of moolah on it.
or
Perhaps I am wrong and it IS the word of God...


Either way there is no way to know.

 

[Will-iam]

@pyro enite'spost#259, To point out the obvious your post has been preceded by 258 posts and will hopefully succeed by at least that many. Of course people will not see eye to eye I was the second poster on this here thread and my view was quite different from the first poster. Though we are still here and to me this isn't so much of an argument as it is a debate and the debate isn't so much as a debate as it is a display of worldview diversity of what 'really is'?

@ Jaeger and DarthPika regarding 'blind faith'. The tradegy most of us have and fewer still will reluctantly acknowledge is that our systems of beliefs, our epistemes are indeed blind because we are. We 'dig' as it were discourse after discourse in order to find the treasure of truth not knowing where to look or even start looking forgetting our methods to start with are all wrong.

Blindess of faith comes from those who don't realize that it is beyond the ken of intellect the sight of the eye the hearing of the ears. Those who try to rationalize faith make it partner and pawn to rationality, to logic and its 'laws' forgetting that our epistemes are but emmanations of irrationality because we are irrational beings. It is 'our'world, world of abstractions self-defined and self-contained logic that is rational that we attempt but always fail to abstract 'true' meaning from for we wish to be rational for in rationality lies consitacncey a type of imprisoned immortality that would free us of our 'free' irrationality of our mortality by trapping it in a history written and writting our 'acheivements' making us feel 'accomplished' in this lies one of the greatest truths and paradox's of our existential ontology.

 

[Barkjon]

Prove the Bible is really God's words plz
Perhaps a crazy man wrote up a book one day, titled it Bible and made a LOT of moolah on it.
or
Perhaps I am wrong and it IS the word of God...


Either way there is no way to know.

Circular reasoning time...

The proof the Bible is God's word is that the Bible says it is.

And on this thread, people are really going off-topic. As far as I am aware, the title of the thread is "Do Yoiu Believe In God", not "Why You Believe (or Don't Believe) in God", or "Does God Exist". People are throwing out huge answers to what is a yes or no question.

As for me, I believe God is real.

 

[ryanvergel]

I've noticed that most Christans are willing to be open minded. It seems that it's mostly the fundamentalist protestants that insist on blind faith. I will never be able to understand the "we're 100% right, everyone else is completely wrong" attitude that many of them seem to have. Seriously, it's always best to look somewhere in the middle of two extremes for an answer, even more so on a topic as old as this.

1. blanket assumptions- twice?
2. i've never understood how any christian could be open minded. the Bible says all other religions are completely and utterly wrong. how can you put your faith in the Bible and then contradict it in action? seems like you aren't a real Christian.
3. the Bible doesn't want a middle road. That's Buddhism.


seriously, though. to me, either you adhere to all the tenets and ideas in the Bible, or you are not a real Christian. you can't cherrypick what parts are more comfortable or easy to swallow. it is such that if you discount a part of it, you must discount it all.

maybe you aren't a real christian, darthpika? you seem unwilling to partake in all of the ridiculous points it tries to make, so maybe you need to amend your beliefs and possibly admit to not believing in the bible, and thus the christian god.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

Circular reasoning time...

The proof the Bible is God's word is that the Bible says it is.

And on this thread, people are really going off-topic. As far as I am aware, the title of the thread is "Do Yoiu Believe In God", not "Why You Believe (or Don't Believe) in God", or "Does God Exist". People are throwing out huge answers to what is a yes or no question.

As for me, I believe God is real.

you kidding?

the title of this thread is "is there such a thing as god", not "do you believe in god".

you just need to learn to read.

 

[dogma]

1. blanket assumptions- twice?
2. i've never understood how any christian could be open minded. the Bible says all other religions are completely and utterly wrong.

Are you sure about this? Because the Qur'aan reserves special status for the Abrahamic religions, so this seems wrong to me, intuitively. Also, the Old Testament is loosely the Judaic sacred book, so would be surprised if this was true.

how can you put your faith in the Bible and then contradict it in action? seems like you aren't a real Christian.

Woah, easy does it! How can you tell Darthpika that his interpretation of his faith is wrong?

The only way this statement makes sense is if we take your understanding of Christianity - and why should we do that?

3. the Bible doesn't want a middle road. That's Buddhism.

Huh?

seriously, though. to me, either you adhere to all the tenets and ideas in the Bible, or you are not a real Christian. you can't cherrypick what parts are more comfortable or easy to swallow. it is such that if you discount a part of it, you must discount it all.

Now this completely makes sense, and people would do well to take note...

maybe you aren't a real christian, darthpika? you seem unwilling to partake in all of the ridiculous points it tries to make, so maybe you need to amend your beliefs and possibly admit to not believing in the bible, and thus the christian god.

and then we go back to cloud cuckoo land again. What on earth are you talking about? How did you get that from his post?

you kidding?

the title of this thread is "is there such a thing as god", not "do you believe in god".

you just need to learn to read.

Ryan, don't fall into my trap of sarcasm, it doesn't come across well in a forum :wink:

 

[Benzo]

Blind faith- is that because of the non existance of the real truth? The truth will always be clouded in one way shape form or another. To be blind is to accept an inability to be reasonable or open minded.( imo) Take every belief, religion, scientic research- you name it- mash them all togather, and find the commonalities. Then pray, chant, what ever you do to communicate to your creator or God ( even if you do not beleive in God) (i hope everyone sees my intention)- and take everything into account- you will find only the answers you want to hear.
Stalemate- when you reach your own conclusion as to what to believe or not, and others try and prove your wrong. If you take responsability for your own actions, live life as peacefuly as possible, and treat others as you would want them to treat you, your on the right path. I am open minded- For God will not do me wrong, only man will. If I close my mind, I become blind and deaf and will miss the truth. No matter the source I hear something to be truthful and points me in the right direction I will never obtain my own personal beliefs rewards- Everyone is correct when it comes to their beliefs and faith. How they go about doing or practicing it, they are individuals who are just as volnerable to the same exposior to the dangers in this world as I am. I could be the best "goody-goody" person in church or whatever building people go to, and still be just as imperfect as everyone else who is subjuect to the same dangers in daily life. All that matters to me is that before I die, I hope that I have never caused my fellow man to lose hope in their beleifs and faith, for then I would be no better then the fallen angel that has already made life nothing but one big confusing mess for man to try and figuer out, point fingers at others and saying "your wrong" - I ask this: If a tiger is aware that it is a tiger, can you convince it that it is not a tiger? ( yeah, and I know that this question is going to get bombarded)(but the example is to show reason)I think that there are a lot of great points in this thread. I commend you all in that at least you all have some sort of faith or belief, for you are doing what you believe is right. Only your God or whatever is your god can judge you and tell you if you are right or wrong. So, why does it matter to you what others beleive, for we all share commonalities in an imperfect world. I bellieve that my God will fix the imperfections, all I have to do is believe in his word, follow the examples set by his son, and answer to my creator for myself before and after I die.

 

[Barkjon]

you kidding?

the title of this thread is "is there such a thing as god", not "do you believe in god".

you just need to learn to read.

Good point. Sorry, I spaced.

But still, isn't it a yes or no question?

 

[DarthPika]

Ryan, I was talking about those who take the Bible to be 100% literal. The kind of people who believe that if isn't in the Bible, then it can't be true. Or, the people who insist that every story in the Bible is true, even though many of the stories are just stories, and nothing more. That IMO is blind faith.

I believe the Bible. Do I think that it's 100% accurate in every account that's in it? No. I think it's probably gives a good idea of what happened, but due to how these event's were written down, it's obvious that you can't take it to be a 100% accurate description of past events. It's also not meant to be, as many seem to believe, a diagram of heaven, and how heaven looks/works/etc. It's supposed to be a guide for how to get to heaven. The rest is up to God. Heck, who said that God can't change his mind from what he may have said in the Bible?

 

[Will-iam]

I agree with ryanvergel, the bible is a scripture that admits no greyness. Interpreting in the sense of what's what is even done by the 'fundamentalists' I know I use E.W. Bulinger's version. Its not 'what's what' that is so much the concern but the message and one underlining message of the Bible is that all other religions (views) are either A. wrong and a deliberation on the part of thye Devil or B. are incorrect and a misinterpretation from people. either way only Christianity is 'true' The same goes in Islam the difference being Islam is more tolerant at least it is in the Quran.

@dogma wasn't one of the intentions of Islam 'To complete religion'? In the sense that the Jews, Christians and Sabeans(don't know what they worship) while they had 'true' belief didn't have true worship because they gave credit to where credit wasn't due like Christians saying Jesus was son of God, which goes agaisnt the Islamic notion 'God begets not nor is God begotten' concept.

 

[Benzo]

The bible unfortunitly will have different interpratations- it is the "living" word of God. Look at the English language- my sig is an example of how words when spoken can have different meanings. To say that the bible is only "one word" set in stone, is to say that it can not change with the times. Speed read through any book, and then take your time to fully read it through thoughly. It will say the same thing, but you have a better understanding of what the book is about, even if it is fictitious. If three hundred people witness the same car accident, you get three hundred DIfferent "stories"- but a lot of commonalities. Every one is correct in what they saw, so, why argue with them and tell them that what they saw is not true.

 

[Will-iam]

@Benzo Yes I agree with your car accident scenario but what I am trying to point out here and I think also ryanvergel was also doing is not the details the 'what's what'
but the principles One of which underlining in Christianity is the concept that when it comes to salvation Jesus Christ was and is the only savior. Even the least bias of Christians like Thomas Merton (think that was his name) acknowledged Christ as Savior and he was also heavily in to zen-meditation.

I have never heard a Christian say something like Siddartha Gautma, Krishna or The Prophet (Pbuh) Muhammad is just as valid as Christ. They may agree that the three mentioned patrons/personages are great teachers but not saviors. Just like I have never heard a Muslim acknowledge Christ as son of God but that to them and (somewhat to me) Jesus was no more than the son of Mary and a messenger of God. I have heard/read the Sufis say Christ is 'the greatest saint' but not that he is savior.

 

[Benzo]

^ fair point with reason. To have a distinct "image" that is projected form a person or being is how others percieve to be in their terms as to assigning a "title" to a person or being for the acknowlagement of what that person or being is in reference to what was accomplished by said entetity. ( I hope that make sence, from my viewpoint it does), but I must say this: is it not great to be alive? Even though we exist ( no matter how or what causes us to be in existance ) we have the freedom of choice. We all want to choose wisely, and to have the best in life by making choices that will make life full of happiness. We do what we believe to be the best descision that will bring us happiness, even if it means to worship a God, or follow the beliefs of scientific theory- whatever to obtain one thing: Happiness. I am simply happy for others that soonor or later they will find the truth to the questions they have that they need answered to to benefit the best results they desire for their lives by to remain happy. Will-iam, you and others on this thread have all made some good points, and imo- it is best for a person to seek out true happiness in a peaceful and constructive manner. The dumbest question is the one that is not asked- a cliche' saying that is as old as the bible itself. But a question can be answered in more then one way. A question that you want answered is best to go right to the "horses mouth"- If you never Ever recieve an answer from that direct source, then the source does not exist. I know that if I do not have the best answer to a question, I refer the questioner to a better resource. It is common courtsy to not misinform others of information you have no truethful responces too. I am the kind of person who sees that a coin has more then two sides. I think that that is the most honest way to look at anything, since I am imperfect, I commend all yall for the information that you have posted, for it is an excelent source of good reasoning. And as long as this thread (imo) stays with in the bounds of being good reasoning, I will respectfully acknowlage those good points of reason, for in a world of "orginized chaos" ( if you want me to explain that term, I will) a few simple things remain- we exist, we have individualness, freedom to choose, and the right to exist. I respect those simple points, for it is not me who created anything that puts me above others who are just like me, human. Also, I thank those of you who have heard me, and see that I am an open-minded person who wishes to not detuer anyone from what they believe in any way.

 

[ryanvergel]

I agree with ryanvergel, the bible is a scripture that admits no greyness. Interpreting in the sense of what's what is even done by the'fundamentalists' I know I use E.W. Bulinger's version. Its not 'what's what' that is so much the concern but the message and one underlining message of the Bible is that all other religions (views) are either A. wrong and a deliberation on the part of thye Devil or B. are incorrect and a misinterpretation from people. either way only Christianity is 'true' The same goes in Islam the difference being Islam is more tolerant at least it is in the Quran.

@dogma wasn't one of the intentions of Islam 'To complete religion'? In the sense that the Jews, Christians and Sabeans(don't know what they worship) while they had 'true' belief didn't have true worship because they gave credit to where credit wasn't due like Christians saying Jesus was son of God, which goes agaisnt the Islamic notion 'God begets not nor is God begotten' concept.

Ryan, I was talking about those who take the Bible to be 100% literal. The kind of people who believe that if isn't in the Bible, then it can't be true. Or, the people who insist that every story in the Bible is true, even though many of the stories are just stories, and nothing more. That IMO is blind faith.

I am arguing that the Bible MUST be interpretated literally, since it says it is the word of God. It does not say it is an elaborate metaphor. It says that it is the word of God, to be taken as is. Maybe you need to re-examine how your faith works in the context of the book it is supposed to be based on.

I think being a true Christian requires adhering to the religious text it is founded on entirely and completely. You cannot interpret it like you do, because it says not to.

even though many of the stories are just stories, and nothing more

Blind faith? Maybe, but that is faith proper. Otherwise you are having faith in something that is PARTIALLY from the Bible (part Christian) and some other information or beliefs (part not Christian). So you are not a whole Christian, but have beliefs from Christian texts and other things. I wouldn't call you a Christian, though. I think it's wrong to represent yourself as a Christian if you don't believe entirely in the Bible, but treat some of it's teaching as 'merely stories'.

 

[SuperWooper]

Heck, who said that God can't change his mind from what he may have said in the Bible?

Then Saul said to Samuel, "I have sinned. I violated the LORD's command and your instructions. I was afraid of the people and so I gave in to them. Now I beg you, forgive my sin and come back with me, so that I may worship the LORD."

But Samuel said to him, "I will not go back with you. You have rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD has rejected you as king over Israel!"

As Samuel turned to leave, Saul caught hold of the hem of his robe, and it tore. Samuel said to him, "The LORD has torn the kingdom of Israel from you today and has given it to one of your neighbors—to one better than you. He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind."

Seventeen characters.

 

[Benzo]

^nice!
I only agree because if God were not to follow through with what he says, the God would be the worst example of what it would mean to be true to your word. Being a dad myself, if I lie, then my childrren become liers over time. Then they would lie to me. Then it would be world war three (sarcasm) in my home because I would always never know what is realy going on, and the insanity of it all will be just that: world war three in my house! Isn't it great how some being-entetity taught us how to lie?? (sarcasm) Wow, what a practicle joker, oh how hilariouse and fun lies and their affects are! (more sarcasm)- So, a God who lies would be a true loving God? I do not think so. But, a lie sparked cuirosity, and that curiosity led to sin, that sin lead to our death sentence, thus leaving one option open- reject the lie, resist the temtations of sin, and to know that God is truethful in His words.

 

[dogma]

I agree with ryanvergel, the bible is a scripture that admits no greyness. Interpreting in the sense of what's what is even done by the 'fundamentalists' I know I use E.W. Bulinger's version. Its not 'what's what' that is so much the concern but the message and one underlining message of the Bible is that all other religions (views) are either A. wrong and a deliberation on the part of thye Devil or B. are incorrect and a misinterpretation from people. either way only Christianity is 'true' The same goes in Islam the difference being Islam is more tolerant at least it is in the Quran.

@dogma wasn't one of the intentions of Islam 'To complete religion'? In the sense that the Jews, Christians and Sabeans(don't know what they worship) while they had 'true' belief didn't have true worship because they gave credit to where credit wasn't due like Christians saying Jesus was son of God, which goes agaisnt the Islamic notion 'God begets not nor is God begotten' concept.

Yep, all true (I mean the Islamic stuff).

I have never heard a Christian say something like Siddartha Gautma, Krishna or The Prophet (Pbuh) Muhammad is just as valid as Christ. They may agree that the three mentioned patrons/personages are great teachers but not saviors. Just like I have never heard a Muslim acknowledge Christ as son of God but that to them and (somewhat to me) Jesus was no more than the son of Mary and a messenger of God. I have heard/read the Sufis say Christ is 'the greatest saint' but not that he is savior.

Muslims (well, mainstream Muslims) do not believe that anyone is saviour in the Christian sense of the word.

@thread: really confused that you think that Christianity is literal. Here in the UK, there is lots of talk of how literally should you take the Bible, with some denominations asserting that if you don't take some of the stories as parables rather than literally, you are wrong.

There's plenty of middle ground as far as I can see. I think some are misunderstanding what it means to have faith in a religion...

 

[Will-iam]

I think the birth of 'fundamentalism' in Chritianity as I said before happened in 1895 and the following from what io remember are the prereequites in claiming 'faith' in Christianity.

1. The Bible is the Word of God and it is to be literal unless within the Bible it mentions other wise, like Daniel's 'weeks'

2. Christ is the Son of God and is God as the 'Word made flesh'

3. Christ was brought in the world by immaculate conception by Mary wife of Joseph while she was still a virgin.

4. Christ is the one and only Savior and answer towards salvation who died and suffered for the sins of the world.

5. Christ will return on Day of Judgement.

 

[weavile#1]

http://collegerelations.vassar.edu/2007/2486/

Big Bang theory proved.

 

[DarthPika]

And what does that have to do with this thread?