FireFormation
New Member
I run psychic. Jirachi's power won't work for rainbow
Kyurem vs Cobalion. Should I Accept the Autloss?
- Thread starter FireFormation
- Start date
no, that's weak. you're going to drop two basics to kill one and then they'll promote a kyruem and ko your victini, if anything they'll bait you with the cobalion just to get an easy two prizes. No one mass devolves anymore, if you don't play some type of uber basic, you aint winning tournaments, so jirachi is kinda dead weight at this point in time.
uchiha_minato
New Member
wich feraligatr are u using i believe the format in this gam is from hss and newer set am i right?
Feraligatr Prime, the one that lets you play as many water energy per turn as you want.
@arMILO your last two posts presume that both players are playing CaKE/ECK/whatever the heck you want to call it. My Kyurem list does not run Cobalion as of right now (although I can't say I've tested CaKE yet, but just by my theorymon I figure my list should be more consistant/on average faster.). Cobalion can be played in other decks, and Kyurem is not limited to Cobalion as its sole partner.
That being said, I would agree that taking the autoloss is probably the easiest way out. Unless theres 3+ CaKE decks at your cities, having one autoloss isn't a terrible thing. I'd rather focus on making sure my deck did what its supposed to do in the most optimal manner possible, which is spread and spread and spread as fast and as much as possible.
But if you're really having issues with Cobalion in your meta, I really think the only easy way of going about countering it without changing decks completly is trying to fit Victini into your deck/general strategy. Even then, its kinda gimmicky... It probably won't swing the matchup to anything higher then 50-50.
Just my thoughts.
That being said, I would agree that taking the autoloss is probably the easiest way out. Unless theres 3+ CaKE decks at your cities, having one autoloss isn't a terrible thing. I'd rather focus on making sure my deck did what its supposed to do in the most optimal manner possible, which is spread and spread and spread as fast and as much as possible.
But if you're really having issues with Cobalion in your meta, I really think the only easy way of going about countering it without changing decks completly is trying to fit Victini into your deck/general strategy. Even then, its kinda gimmicky... It probably won't swing the matchup to anything higher then 50-50.
Just my thoughts.
Cobalion IMO is a broken card, and I am one of those Kyurem/gatr players as well.
Gatr could as easily take out Cobalion but then low and behold their is probably another one on the bench, at this point Kyurem/gatr decks need to start utilizing on switches, retreat cost, catchers, assuming they dont get plume locked which most likely any Cobalion player is going to have that annoying plume line in their deck.
It got to a point i was very tempted to run a good fire pokemon in which I could get by with using water/rescue energy but I couldnt think of one worth running.
Gatr could as easily take out Cobalion but then low and behold their is probably another one on the bench, at this point Kyurem/gatr decks need to start utilizing on switches, retreat cost, catchers, assuming they dont get plume locked which most likely any Cobalion player is going to have that annoying plume line in their deck.
It got to a point i was very tempted to run a good fire pokemon in which I could get by with using water/rescue energy but I couldnt think of one worth running.
FireFormation
New Member
I ran the same list on saturday as I did in my last cities where I took 4th. I went 4-2 with my only loses again being to Cobalion variants. On sunday I teched in a v-create Victini and I ended up facing one cobalion variant and my Victini just happened to be prized. I'm pretty sure if it had not been prized I would of won that game. So at this moment I am going with Victini
Shishio
New Member
After some additional testing, I still like Victini. However, after taking away 4 spots (2 for Victini, 2 for fire NRG(, Im really liking Suicune Entei Legend (SEL as he is known). Even though he yields 2 prizes when KOED, his usefulness goes quite the distance.
1) Using the same NRG as kyurem/gatr. This makes it a lot easier to power up and take a suprise KO on a cobalion/random basic on the bench. Torrent blade has always been its better move, and its versatile in sniping voltorb or electrodes. This can happen often with playing 2-3 Catcher, and dragging something up without NRG can get you some Crucial KOs to seal the game. (Any kyurem or cobalion, the 2 retreat cost really hurts).
2) He saves NRG after he attacks. This is really beneficial (most of the time, im looking at you N). Saving energy means attacking with Gatr later, or having energy to retreat with when SEL gets hit with an Iron breaker. Only having 1 retreat cost is really awesome, and can get out of the active spot quite easily.
3) Again with the one retreat cost, its quite easy to get out of the active spot. Playing switch also allows the player to get another KO with SEL, which is huge, paying off his 2 prize death (when it comes). Switch has become a very commonly played card this format, and it is unwise to play a high retreat without such a good card.
Overall I do like it more than Victini, even though SEL gives up 2 prizes and has more difficulty being searched out. Getting out in one turn to KO a cobalion is the greatest thing about him compared to Victini, which warrants his use over the victory star pokemon.
1) Using the same NRG as kyurem/gatr. This makes it a lot easier to power up and take a suprise KO on a cobalion/random basic on the bench. Torrent blade has always been its better move, and its versatile in sniping voltorb or electrodes. This can happen often with playing 2-3 Catcher, and dragging something up without NRG can get you some Crucial KOs to seal the game. (Any kyurem or cobalion, the 2 retreat cost really hurts).
2) He saves NRG after he attacks. This is really beneficial (most of the time, im looking at you N). Saving energy means attacking with Gatr later, or having energy to retreat with when SEL gets hit with an Iron breaker. Only having 1 retreat cost is really awesome, and can get out of the active spot quite easily.
3) Again with the one retreat cost, its quite easy to get out of the active spot. Playing switch also allows the player to get another KO with SEL, which is huge, paying off his 2 prize death (when it comes). Switch has become a very commonly played card this format, and it is unwise to play a high retreat without such a good card.
Overall I do like it more than Victini, even though SEL gives up 2 prizes and has more difficulty being searched out. Getting out in one turn to KO a cobalion is the greatest thing about him compared to Victini, which warrants his use over the victory star pokemon.
you ran rainbow or fire energies for the victini?
would pichu be of more use for this setup?
FireFormation
New Member
I ran fire with the deck and I don't think pichu is needed
how many energies you ran? just 1-2?
I been thinking of adding Victini V-create version in my deck but I kind of liked to of ran 2 at least with 3-4 Fires.
I may have to limit it to 1 though giving the lack of space available for it due to the need to have so much water for rain dance.
I been thinking of adding Victini V-create version in my deck but I kind of liked to of ran 2 at least with 3-4 Fires.
I may have to limit it to 1 though giving the lack of space available for it due to the need to have so much water for rain dance.
FireFormation
New Member
I ran two fire and 1 victini
amphy#1
New Member
All I'm going to do to Cobalion is spread and crushing blow. If they use the first attack, I'll Free retreat Kyruem with Dodrio's body and send out another one, or send out Gatr. If they kill me, then I'll send out a Kyruem, or Gatr. They'll already have damage on them, so it'll be that much easier to kill em.
FireFormation
New Member
Spread wont do anything because they will definitely have a special steel attached and maybe even an eviolite. Also you can't retreat kyurem if they OHKO it first
I've been playing with Cake, and as well as being one of the most fun decks to play, it's extremely versatile and can deal with so much. Of course you need to use Absol Prime for it to count.
I wouldn't accept the autoloss, you need to get a decent amount of damage on it with Kyurem, then Gatr it, or you can play Eviolite and Defender, hope they attack and/or don't have pluspower.
Also, at Amphy, do most lists run Dodrio? I've never found a use for it when I play, I gave up on it long ago.
I wouldn't accept the autoloss, you need to get a decent amount of damage on it with Kyurem, then Gatr it, or you can play Eviolite and Defender, hope they attack and/or don't have pluspower.
Also, at Amphy, do most lists run Dodrio? I've never found a use for it when I play, I gave up on it long ago.
amphy#1
New Member
I'll be spreading damage before they can be powered up. (while Cobalion is on the bench) Also, "If they kill me, then I'll send out a Kyruem, or Gatr. They'll already have damage on them, so it'll be that much easier to kill em."
Reading is key.
---------- Post added 12/07/2011 at 12:41 PM ----------
No. nobody really runs Dodrio. But I think it's a great counter to Cobalion's 2nd attack. it's only right that you have something that can deal with it, since people are playing a lot of it.
Now the 2nd attack automatically kills Kyruem. You've got to be ready with another attacker. If not, then you're sunk.