Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Sitting out Nats a serious discussion

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There's no excuse for losing a game. None whatsoever.

Why would anyone want to miss out on points?
 
FWIW late season we have been playing 45 minute 2/3 in the swiss. It gives you reasonable protection against atrocious starts without totally overwhelming the event schedule. It isn't particularly necessary early season because the early wins and loses don't have the same impact as late season wins/loses.

Down side is that many more games go to time.

Notes
I only do this at small events when there is lots of venue time spare.
I wouldn't be that bothered were it not for the ratings invites.
If a way can be found to identify or minimize the impact of donks then the motivation to play 2/3 swiss becomes reduced.
I would like to see 45min 2/3 swiss as the recommended format for nationals.
 
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as an ex magic player i doubt if there mulligan rule would work. what mulligan to nothing and have no basics? seams stoopid to me, but a 2/3 would help alot more gadda back my General on this one 1,2,3,4 i love the poke Core, PT good for you good for me!
 
*Slams fist on table shaking table and everything on it*

Gosh Darnit!! Look at us,we are using ratings to decide if we should play in a big tournament like nats. This game has degenerated down into gaining nothing but a way to stay out of the 2nd biggest pokemon tournament of the year just to play in the big one. I remember back in the first Nintendo run worlds where ratings mean CRAP!!! It just showed how good you were during the year and you had to EARN your way there by winning big tournaments. Now your looking at players who collect points and at the end dont wanta play in the 2nd biggest event just for a darn rating problem. Back in tehd ay the nationals was a proving ground to shoiw who was the bst and who would represent the US in the world champiopnships. Now we have 4 who will wina dn 4 who will sit aroudn and just wait. God it wants to make me puke to see where this great game which used to represent fun and enjoyment has fallen to. UGGGG I cant believe since POP took over that this game went from playing for fun, playing the best and going to events like origins to face the best into a game where you cant even play the because they want to SIT on thier nest eggs till worlds.
I HOPE and i mean HOPE POP can correct this next year or i see a spike down on the game and alot of players fleeing elsewhere to enjopy a good game where confusion and prizese is confusing are NOWHERE to be found. **** i know a junior here who would refuse the battle road and nats because he was one of the best and wanted to sit on his nest egg and i felt bad because even if origins was filled with fun its sad to see he cant show off his skills in the US finale.

This is my opinion and wrong or right this is what im sticking with.
 
People are only sitting on their ratings because they'd rather go to Worlds than Nationals.



Itis apparent to me that if the top 50 from NA got trips, people would not be so intent on sitting on a good rating.

The "problem" is with people doing what they must to guarantee getting an invite to Worlds, nothing more.
 
If I had a guaranteed trip to Worlds that I could only lose at Nationals, there's no question that I would sit out Nationals.
 
OHHgive me a freaking break. this is so much crap. This freaking game is turning into magic and its making me sick to read how the ratings are what is making the freaking game what it is. This whole damm game is falling into magic and im getting sadened to see it. Every year the ratings problem will ruin this game till the game degenerates into ratings making up the road to worlds. When the ratings dictact the game and how it determines worlds invites its what makes the game less fun and more ruthless.
 
DarkMagnus said:
as an ex magic player i doubt if there mulligan rule would work. what mulligan to nothing and have no basics? seams stoopid to me, but a 2/3 would help alot more gadda back my General on this one 1,2,3,4 i love the poke Core, PT good for you good for me!
Click to expand...

Instead of drawing one less card for the Mulligan, your opponent could draw an extra card. That would probably work.
 
FireFighter095ReBorn said:
*Slams fist on table shaking table and everything on it*

Gosh Darnit!! Look at us,we are using ratings to decide if we should play in a big tournament like nats. This game has degenerated down into gaining nothing but a way to stay out of the 2nd biggest pokemon tournament of the year just to play in the big one. I remember back in the first Nintendo run worlds where ratings mean CRAP!!! It just showed how good you were during the year and you had to EARN your way there by winning big tournaments. Now your looking at players who collect points and at the end dont wanta play in the 2nd biggest event just for a darn rating problem. Back in tehd ay the nationals was a proving ground to shoiw who was the bst and who would represent the US in the world champiopnships. Now we have 4 who will wina dn 4 who will sit aroudn and just wait. God it wants to make me puke to see where this great game which used to represent fun and enjoyment has fallen to. UGGGG I cant believe since POP took over that this game went from playing for fun, playing the best and going to events like origins to face the best into a game where you cant even play the because they want to SIT on thier nest eggs till worlds.
I HOPE and i mean HOPE POP can correct this next year or i see a spike down on the game and alot of players fleeing elsewhere to enjopy a good game where confusion and prizese is confusing are NOWHERE to be found. **** i know a junior here who would refuse the battle road and nats because he was one of the best and wanted to sit on his nest egg and i felt bad because even if origins was filled with fun its sad to see he cant show off his skills in the US finale.

This is my opinion and wrong or right this is what im sticking with.
Click to expand...

Ratings got you into worlds in the first nintendo worlds.
It was somehting like top 16 or 8 got in IIRC.
 
The Gorn said:
If I had a guaranteed trip to Worlds that I could only lose at Nationals, there's no question that I would sit out Nationals.
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exactly. So would I.

But here's the thing: I don't think that there is a single player in the USA who is in that position. I'd be very surprised if POP didn't choose the K values this year in order to avoid that possibility. The nationals K value is low enought that USA Nationals won't be the sole determinant of who goes to Hawaii. Equally the K value is high enough that sitting out is a risk. The prize is a reward for playing and not sitting.
 
If I had a guaranteed trip to Worlds that I could only lose at Nationals, there's no question that I would sit out Nationals.
Click to expand...

What is a guaranteed trip sitting out Nats? What is that magical number? Here is a little chart based on 44K value and a starting rating of 2014 and going undefeated. Granted we do not know the exact opponents rating but for arguements sake I used 7 Rounds of Swiss and ratings going from 1700 for the 1st round and increasing by 50 so that in the final round you play another rated player at 2000.

The following headers are:

K, Rounds, Your Rating, Opp. Rating, Win Gain, After Win Rating,

44 1 2014.00 1700 +6.20 =2020.20
44 2 2020.20 1750 +7.67 =2027.87
44 3 2027.87 1800 +9.34 =2037.21
44 4 2037.21 1850 +11.17 =2048.38
44 5 2048.38 1900 +13.14 =2061.52
44 6 2061.52 1950 +15.17 =2076.69
44 7 2076.69 2000 +17.22 =2093.91

Loss
1 -37.80
2 -36.33
3 -34.66
4 -32.83
5 -30.86
6 -28.83
7 -26.78
These are the possible points that one rated 2000 or above could lose for each round a loss incurred.

So after going 7-0 at a 44K event the person that started at 2014 ends up at 2093.91 That person gained 79.91 points. Based on this it is probably safe to say that players that are rated 2000 or above are fairly safe to sit out and get a trip to Worlds.
 
JB, what if you run the same scenario with a player who started 1t 1850...how do the numbers change?

Vince

44 1 1850.00 1700 +14.50 =1864.50
44 2 1864.50 1750 +16.27 =1880.77
44 3 1880.77 1800 +17.96 =1898.73
44 4 1898.73 1850 +20.56 =1919.29
44 5 1919.29 1900 +21.03 =1940.32
44 6 1940.32 1950 +22.48 =1962.80
44 7 1962.80 2000 +23.86 =1986.66
 
There's gonna be people going over 2000 from nats. Undefeateds as low as the 1850-1900 range perhaps and anyone at about 1950 who makes the cut. The question for me is how many are going to pass 2000.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the top 6 US players had sat out Nats, only 1 would have not made it.

As it worked out, 2 of the top 6 did not make it. (One got shoved out by Alex's excellent showing and the other lost enough points to fall out).
 
The Gorn said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the top 6 US players had sat out Nats, only 1 would have not made it.

As it worked out, 2 of the top 6 did not make it. (One got shoved out by Alex's excellent showing and the other lost enough points to fall out).
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Hindsight is wonderfull.. Only three USA players could risk either sitting or play-to-first-loss going into the USA nats. The cut off for invites could easily have been closer to 2000 points than it turned out in the end. FWIW I had Alex estimated as 1980 ish after nats and on the hairy edge of an invite as a result. I must find out where my guestimate of players ratings going into the T32 went wrong.

FWIW the masters 8th place invite was at 1988.46 before nationals and dropped 14 points to 1974.2 after nationals. I'm guessing that drop was all down to there being four invites at USA nationals. That's a tricky outcome for POP as a drop in the bar for the invite at nationals will only encourage more sitting.

I don't know if raising the K value for USA nationals would have kept the bar from falling 14 points like it did. I'm sure that POP will check that out in time for next season.
 
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