The top 4 most broken cards in this format
- Thread starter HonchKing
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Professor Elm
Active Member
How is roseanne's broken? lol
and super scoop up over poketurn?
Jumpluff isn't broken, it's just a good stage 2.
I would say
1.) Luxray Gl X (obviously)
2.) Poketurn (the card that makes luxray broken)
3.) Uxie (umm, drop to replenish ur hand for 7, this is the reason our format is so freaking fast)
4.) BTS (gives stage 2 decks the speed they need to compete with SP decks)
and super scoop up over poketurn?
Jumpluff isn't broken, it's just a good stage 2.
I would say
1.) Luxray Gl X (obviously)
2.) Poketurn (the card that makes luxray broken)
3.) Uxie (umm, drop to replenish ur hand for 7, this is the reason our format is so freaking fast)
4.) BTS (gives stage 2 decks the speed they need to compete with SP decks)
I'm sorry, but your argument for Roseanne's being broken doesn't make any sense. It's probably the best supporter in the game today, with Cyrus's Conspiracy at a close second. Sure, some decks take advantage of it in different ways than others, but it's still a staple for every deck. Just because you can get a Toxicroak G promo and a psychic energy doesn't necessarily mean that you have the gain in hand, or you can knock out the defending pokemon. If it isn't a weak to it, and it hasn't knocked something out, then Toxicroak hits for a mere 20 and poison. In no way is Roseanne's broken, and I fail to see how it should be rewritten to say "The defending pokemon is knocked out."
SplitHeavens
New Member
lolwut?
PokeTurn is tons better than SSU can ever hope to be. It seems like you completely disregard the fact that it only works half of the time. And you even mention Luxray GL Lv. X being more useful only when taken back to the hand, but SP decks only use, and should only use PokeTurn.
Jumpluff isn't that great as its HP is ridiculously low with your opponent having a bit of control with its damage.
As far as broken goes, in my opinion, it is:
Luxray GL Lv. X
PokeTurn
Broken Time-Space
Claydol
PokeTurn is tons better than SSU can ever hope to be. It seems like you completely disregard the fact that it only works half of the time. And you even mention Luxray GL Lv. X being more useful only when taken back to the hand, but SP decks only use, and should only use PokeTurn.
Jumpluff isn't that great as its HP is ridiculously low with your opponent having a bit of control with its damage.
As far as broken goes, in my opinion, it is:
Luxray GL Lv. X
PokeTurn
Broken Time-Space
Claydol
FurretFTW!!1!
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=
Cyrus is an engine in itself, so I consider it better than Roseanne's. I'll miss Rose when she leaves, though ;_;
1) Double Colorless Energy (it lets Flygon and so much more attack attack)
2) Psychic Energy (it lets Mewtwo, Shuppet, and so much more attack)
3) Multi Energy (it lets a lot of Pokemon attack, but can't be stacked ;_
4) Fire Energy (it's part of an engine)
Imagine Pokemon without these cards, everyone.
1) Double Colorless Energy (it lets Flygon and so much more attack attack)
2) Psychic Energy (it lets Mewtwo, Shuppet, and so much more attack)
3) Multi Energy (it lets a lot of Pokemon attack, but can't be stacked ;_
4) Fire Energy (it's part of an engine)
Imagine Pokemon without these cards, everyone.
SLOW DECK
New Member
Broken... IE the format would even out if it was gone.
hmmm.
Not SSU and Not Roseanne, Not Luxray Lvl X, (Poketurn makes it broken)
Definition of BROKEN cards that just too powerful, cards that can be used only a few deck types.
Haymakers and Gust of Wind, Energy Removals, Slowking, (mistranslated),
Decks without any effective counter (Garny Gallade 2 years ago)
Currently, I think SP is getting old, and there hasn't been much new stuff to counter their dominance... Broken... Could be. Remove Cyrus Conspirucy, and it would be hard for it to be as potent.
hmmm.
Not SSU and Not Roseanne, Not Luxray Lvl X, (Poketurn makes it broken)
Definition of BROKEN cards that just too powerful, cards that can be used only a few deck types.
Haymakers and Gust of Wind, Energy Removals, Slowking, (mistranslated),
Decks without any effective counter (Garny Gallade 2 years ago)
Currently, I think SP is getting old, and there hasn't been much new stuff to counter their dominance... Broken... Could be. Remove Cyrus Conspirucy, and it would be hard for it to be as potent.
vanderbilt_grad
New Member
Most Broken Pokemon - Luxray GL lv.X, Garchomp C lv. X, Jumpluff, and Uxie
Most Broken Trainers - Cyrus' Conspiracy, Poketurn, Rare Candy, Expert Belt
Most Broken Energy - DCE, Call, Rainbow, and Special Dark
Claydol is really good, but it has a lot of issues. It a stage 1 so needs to be set up. It's a poor attacker. It has a 2 retreat cost. Yes it's a fantastic bench sitter, but the format didn't really see the huge jump in speed when it was the only real powered draw card. Uxie changed all that. It's an OK attacker, especially with the level X, it has 1 retreat which can be reduced to 0 many ways, and most of all it gives huge early game speed. Yes it has issues too, but it had a huge impact on the format tending towards donks ... which impacts the game as a whole a lot more than Claydol's steady draw does.
Most Broken Trainers - Cyrus' Conspiracy, Poketurn, Rare Candy, Expert Belt
Most Broken Energy - DCE, Call, Rainbow, and Special Dark
Claydol is really good, but it has a lot of issues. It a stage 1 so needs to be set up. It's a poor attacker. It has a 2 retreat cost. Yes it's a fantastic bench sitter, but the format didn't really see the huge jump in speed when it was the only real powered draw card. Uxie changed all that. It's an OK attacker, especially with the level X, it has 1 retreat which can be reduced to 0 many ways, and most of all it gives huge early game speed. Yes it has issues too, but it had a huge impact on the format tending towards donks ... which impacts the game as a whole a lot more than Claydol's steady draw does.
TheGeneral
Active Member
You kidding? Roseanne's? Here are the Top 4:
1. Luxray GL Lv.X (obvious)
2. Poke Turn (Makes SP's 10x harder to beat, can be used in virtually any deck with Crobat G or Luxray GL)
3. Uxie (No need to explain)
4. CLAYDOL (Without this guy, most decks wouldn't stand a chance in this format).
1. Luxray GL Lv.X (obvious)
2. Poke Turn (Makes SP's 10x harder to beat, can be used in virtually any deck with Crobat G or Luxray GL)
3. Uxie (No need to explain)
4. CLAYDOL (Without this guy, most decks wouldn't stand a chance in this format).
Mystery Thing
Administrator
I really don't think Uxie's that broken. Sure, you can use it to get lots of cards, but in most decks, it then gets to sit on your bench and be a sitting duck until you decide to "waste" an attack to get it back into your deck.
DCE is only supermegaawesome right now because of Garchomp - Yeah, it helps Flygon out a ton obviously, but at least Flygon is still a Stage 2.
IMO if anything is breaking the game at all, it's Pokéturn and Energy Gain. Anybody can use Expert Belt, any anybody can use Cyrus (it's just a third of a card less good for other decks). SP Radar got knocked down a step with Pokémon Communication; they're (nearly) the same card, just that one is for everybody. Granted, Cyrus can hunt the Radar out, but still. Pokéturn and Energy gain are what make every SP deck what it is. Luxray is a one time deal without the Turn, and without Energy Gain, Luxray, Garchomp and Promocroak all now need 2 Energy cards to attack instead of 1, which hugely slows their lethality down, especially with Promocroak - the only reason you can surprise drop it on somebody is because of the Energy Gain.
DCE is only supermegaawesome right now because of Garchomp - Yeah, it helps Flygon out a ton obviously, but at least Flygon is still a Stage 2.
IMO if anything is breaking the game at all, it's Pokéturn and Energy Gain. Anybody can use Expert Belt, any anybody can use Cyrus (it's just a third of a card less good for other decks). SP Radar got knocked down a step with Pokémon Communication; they're (nearly) the same card, just that one is for everybody. Granted, Cyrus can hunt the Radar out, but still. Pokéturn and Energy gain are what make every SP deck what it is. Luxray is a one time deal without the Turn, and without Energy Gain, Luxray, Garchomp and Promocroak all now need 2 Energy cards to attack instead of 1, which hugely slows their lethality down, especially with Promocroak - the only reason you can surprise drop it on somebody is because of the Energy Gain.
TheGeneral
Active Member
You say Energy Gain is broken, but not Power Spray. Also, Promocroak doesn't NEED an Energy Gain to surprise attack. It is as simple as "Play Promocroak, attach, galactic switch, badda-boom."
You don't think Uxie is broken because it sits, DCE is only viable because of Garchomp C, and SP Radar is bumped down because of Pokemon Communication?! You should stick to judging lol.
ashinto
Active Member
Here's my list.
4: the whole SP engine - I think that the whole engine should be listed here because all the cards (e-gain, cyrus's, 'turn, 'spray, and to a lesser extent 'radar and aaron's) are the only reason why SP is really played. Without this engine that basically is the SP's Holon engine (holon may be a tad better though being able to be used by every deck, though it was mainly supporters...), the cards would barely be played. Could they be? Absolutely. Dialga, Palkia, Luxray, Blaziken, and Garchomp are pratically the only SP pokemon played (besides the obvious techs) and could abuse DCE or not even need it. They would be decent in speed, but not as fast as they are right now, and I think it would greatly widen the format.
3: Claydol - Do I really have to go into this. Without this beast of a drawer, almost every stage 2 deck would be crying (that includes you jumpluff, you need freakin' 3 of them to run well).
2: Call Energy - Stops donks, garuantees the t2 claydol if you have the right cards, could be used to get out techs to set up, this is a card that is used in practically every deck and has been a force for about 2 years now.
1: Luxray GL X - Again, do I have to say anything. LuxPluff, LuxChomp, DiaLuxChomp, BlazeRay, PalkiaRay, LuxApe, RayBees, Gengar (to some extent), Gyarados (again, to some extent), practically every good deck that is/has been played from the time this card was introduced uses it. It has absolutely no competition, this is the BCIF and most broken card in the format.
4: the whole SP engine - I think that the whole engine should be listed here because all the cards (e-gain, cyrus's, 'turn, 'spray, and to a lesser extent 'radar and aaron's) are the only reason why SP is really played. Without this engine that basically is the SP's Holon engine (holon may be a tad better though being able to be used by every deck, though it was mainly supporters...), the cards would barely be played. Could they be? Absolutely. Dialga, Palkia, Luxray, Blaziken, and Garchomp are pratically the only SP pokemon played (besides the obvious techs) and could abuse DCE or not even need it. They would be decent in speed, but not as fast as they are right now, and I think it would greatly widen the format.
3: Claydol - Do I really have to go into this. Without this beast of a drawer, almost every stage 2 deck would be crying (that includes you jumpluff, you need freakin' 3 of them to run well).
2: Call Energy - Stops donks, garuantees the t2 claydol if you have the right cards, could be used to get out techs to set up, this is a card that is used in practically every deck and has been a force for about 2 years now.
1: Luxray GL X - Again, do I have to say anything. LuxPluff, LuxChomp, DiaLuxChomp, BlazeRay, PalkiaRay, LuxApe, RayBees, Gengar (to some extent), Gyarados (again, to some extent), practically every good deck that is/has been played from the time this card was introduced uses it. It has absolutely no competition, this is the BCIF and most broken card in the format.
Sabett
Active Member
Broken is when a card is so powerful that it breaks one of the most traditional goal of a format is supposed to be, variety. Essentially, a broken card warps the format around itself demanding that it make a big impact on it. This can come in the manner of a card being in several different archetypes, or making their own archetype commonly played, at a high level, for an extensive period of time.
Now, Furretftw has made the point that every deck (or almost at least), absolutely needs energy, and that they all work around them. This however, was obviously intentional, pokemon have attacks, and they require energy, it's as basic as drawing a card each turn, and under such consideration, instead of being considered broken, or format warping, should be considered part of the intended design of pokemon.
It does not end there though, there are even other cards that have become such a basic part of decks that it is merely a fundamental development. Examples are Claydol, Roseanne's, Bebe's, Rare Candy, Uxie, Azelf, Night Maintenance, etc. It is true there are some decks that don't use these cards, but they are more than often an exception, and have something in place of these cards, the idea is still there, the cards are simply different. So there are powerful cards, that almost every deck needs to depend on, but, as a clearly intentional development, are not broken.
Now that we have defined what "Broken" is, let me list my own top 4, them being based on how warping they've become.
1) Luxray Gl
There is no question to this, currently appearing in the two top tier decks, hitting prices of $80 online, and making Speedrill powerful enough to take Worlds win last year. A truly broken trainer, brought back into the form of a pokemon Lv.X that can do 60 damage for one energy, and be online as early as T2. This card has become broken in both of the manners I listed, making it's own archetype widely playable, along with appearing in several archetypes.
2) SP Engine
I can not list the countless intuitive plays, and decisions to be made with such an amazing engine, letting some SP decks from needing the most basics of pokemon decks, alongside with creating a deadly array of adaptable answers to about any situation that can come up. The true threat behind all SP decks, this is certainly noteworthy.
3) Jumpluff
A true marvel in the current format, a stage 2 pokemon, with only 90hp, breaking into t4 tables worldwide. Racing at ridiculous speeds, for a stage 2 deck, it almost always gets the OHKO when it uses Mass Attack, and has another Jumpluff ready and waiting in the wings, expecting that Jumpluff to be knocked out. Essentially eliminating the need for a defensive altogether, Jumpluff is really extraordinary.
4) Crobat G
Often called the sophisticated man's plus power, this card, plus poketurns, appear in even more decks that Luxray GL, but at the same turn is not as impacting to games as said kitty. Ranging from key Gengar attacks (both old and new), to explosive Jumpluff Mass Attacks, to another tool for the sp engine to abuse, it definitely top dog among the backseat pokemon.
Now, Furretftw has made the point that every deck (or almost at least), absolutely needs energy, and that they all work around them. This however, was obviously intentional, pokemon have attacks, and they require energy, it's as basic as drawing a card each turn, and under such consideration, instead of being considered broken, or format warping, should be considered part of the intended design of pokemon.
It does not end there though, there are even other cards that have become such a basic part of decks that it is merely a fundamental development. Examples are Claydol, Roseanne's, Bebe's, Rare Candy, Uxie, Azelf, Night Maintenance, etc. It is true there are some decks that don't use these cards, but they are more than often an exception, and have something in place of these cards, the idea is still there, the cards are simply different. So there are powerful cards, that almost every deck needs to depend on, but, as a clearly intentional development, are not broken.
Now that we have defined what "Broken" is, let me list my own top 4, them being based on how warping they've become.
1) Luxray Gl
There is no question to this, currently appearing in the two top tier decks, hitting prices of $80 online, and making Speedrill powerful enough to take Worlds win last year. A truly broken trainer, brought back into the form of a pokemon Lv.X that can do 60 damage for one energy, and be online as early as T2. This card has become broken in both of the manners I listed, making it's own archetype widely playable, along with appearing in several archetypes.
2) SP Engine
I can not list the countless intuitive plays, and decisions to be made with such an amazing engine, letting some SP decks from needing the most basics of pokemon decks, alongside with creating a deadly array of adaptable answers to about any situation that can come up. The true threat behind all SP decks, this is certainly noteworthy.
3) Jumpluff
A true marvel in the current format, a stage 2 pokemon, with only 90hp, breaking into t4 tables worldwide. Racing at ridiculous speeds, for a stage 2 deck, it almost always gets the OHKO when it uses Mass Attack, and has another Jumpluff ready and waiting in the wings, expecting that Jumpluff to be knocked out. Essentially eliminating the need for a defensive altogether, Jumpluff is really extraordinary.
4) Crobat G
Often called the sophisticated man's plus power, this card, plus poketurns, appear in even more decks that Luxray GL, but at the same turn is not as impacting to games as said kitty. Ranging from key Gengar attacks (both old and new), to explosive Jumpluff Mass Attacks, to another tool for the sp engine to abuse, it definitely top dog among the backseat pokemon.
Quick Draw
New Member
Everyone says luxray GL is broken but it really isnt. it has to be active to use its power and its once its played, it's the poketurn thats broken not luxray.
1: Poketurn: Allows anyone to throw crobats and luxrays in their decks and dominate. It can also be used to deny prizes.
2: Cyrus Initiative: Allows SP to have an engine for basicly the whole game once they connect to one.
3: Broken Time Space: It says its broken in its name doesn't it? It broke the format by making turn one evolved decks possible.
4: Garchomp C: I'm listing Garchomp C because it simply has too many cards around it that make it good, but without a doubt is it one of the best in the format as it kills spread even when it's not ran for that purpose in addition to its nice attack. The cards that make it broken are: Bronzong G, Double Colorless energy, energy gain, and the SP Radar+Cyrus engine that it gets built in.
As you can see from my perspective its currently trainer cards that make the format broken, not the pokemon themselves.
1: Poketurn: Allows anyone to throw crobats and luxrays in their decks and dominate. It can also be used to deny prizes.
2: Cyrus Initiative: Allows SP to have an engine for basicly the whole game once they connect to one.
3: Broken Time Space: It says its broken in its name doesn't it? It broke the format by making turn one evolved decks possible.
4: Garchomp C: I'm listing Garchomp C because it simply has too many cards around it that make it good, but without a doubt is it one of the best in the format as it kills spread even when it's not ran for that purpose in addition to its nice attack. The cards that make it broken are: Bronzong G, Double Colorless energy, energy gain, and the SP Radar+Cyrus engine that it gets built in.
As you can see from my perspective its currently trainer cards that make the format broken, not the pokemon themselves.
yikes you have alot 2 say on the matter sabbet
1 poketurn-without it luxchomp and anything palying crobat g is all most dead
2 luxray/luxray x- goes without saying
3- crobat g- ten damage poketurn ten damage plus power hit kos nearly anything
4- garados- really 3 karps in discard plus expeart belt kills anything
1 poketurn-without it luxchomp and anything palying crobat g is all most dead
2 luxray/luxray x- goes without saying
3- crobat g- ten damage poketurn ten damage plus power hit kos nearly anything
4- garados- really 3 karps in discard plus expeart belt kills anything
Sabett
Active Member
So you're saying garchomp c is better than luxray gl? Seems bad. Can't I just as easily say garchomp c isn't good without DCE?
And no, luxray is much more impacting to the format than poketurn, obviously it needs poketurn, but that doesn't mean its not better.
vegitalian
New Member
1. Everything SP
Actually, I think that pretty much covers it.
Actually, I think that pretty much covers it.
I agree with this list. (I may replace claydol with power spray though)
mewbreon
New Member
my friend and i got QUITE the laugh out of this
to start... you say "top 3 cards" then you list 4 (that just made me love this from the get-go)
then you proceed to say that super scoop up ...is ...broken.....
...no
you know what was broken? sneasel/slowking. holon transceiver. LBS. power spray. poketurn. CLAYDOL....CLAYDOL.
have you ever played magic? you draw like 2 cards... and all of the sudden your winning the game. in pokemon.. we drop 2 cards to the bottom and draw 6...every turn
im not even going to elaborate on uxie or call energy
you know whats NOT broken? a card that you have to flip a coin to use...and if you fail...NOTHING happens.
come on man.. think
to start... you say "top 3 cards" then you list 4 (that just made me love this from the get-go)
then you proceed to say that super scoop up ...is ...broken.....
...no
you know what was broken? sneasel/slowking. holon transceiver. LBS. power spray. poketurn. CLAYDOL....CLAYDOL.
have you ever played magic? you draw like 2 cards... and all of the sudden your winning the game. in pokemon.. we drop 2 cards to the bottom and draw 6...every turn
im not even going to elaborate on uxie or call energy
you know whats NOT broken? a card that you have to flip a coin to use...and if you fail...NOTHING happens.
come on man.. think
