Tyranitar Prime Discussions

[PkmnManiac]

Well I know that Umbreon stops Pokemon w/the Powers/Bodies...that's what I was talking about.

Also, where did Weavile come from?

 

[mikeg542]

I've been playing Tyranitar for a few weeks now through my gauntlet and it has been testing really well. I don't know where anyone got the idea that it has a bad match-up against HurlGar(my choice of name for LostGar) and it has been like 80-90% win against them in testing and league play(the league players may not be optimal, but their lists are close). OHKOing the entire deck, often starting turn 2 (with spiritomb to slow the opponents setup often turn1) usually makes it pretty rough for them! If they try to get multiple lost zoned, you win the prize race and if they try to go 1 for 1, you WILL kill all the hurlgars before they get 6.

Anyway, here's my list before further talk:

4-3-4 Tyranitar (3 Prime, 1 SF)
2-1 Uxie Lv X
3 Sableye
3 Spiritomb
1 Unown Q

4 Pokemon Collector
3 Bebe's Search
4 Professor Oak's New Theory
3 Pokemon Communication
3 Expert Belt
3 Rare Candy
2 Broken Time Space
3 Super Scoop Up
1 Luxury Ball

4 Double Colourless Energy
4 Special Dark
5 Dark

First, no techs against fighting, I'm aware of this and feel that I'm willing to sacrifice this match-up for the sake of a more streamlined list against what I actually expect to play. As far as I can tell pretty much everyone in my metagame plays HurlGar or Luxchomp. There is also a noticeable bias against fighting decks in this area and I have seen someone play against one (between me and 3 friends) twice out of 56 matches. I know I may just get unlucky with pairings and lose miserably, but I want to play to the expected metagame and try to counter it,

Luxchomp matchup: Spiritomb start can be a winner here, slowing them down a lot until you can have a tyranitar or two set up and Unown Q them up to start one shotting everything. You could claim an Dialga G tech could make this lose (deafen is relatively inconsequencial with sableye or spiritomb, and if they are building one up to lost zone energies, you are just way ahead in prizes and your benched t-tar just comes up for the one hit revenge). Promocroak one shots, yes, but it is the only card that trades with tyranitar, and in testing, it usually kills one, dies and things go back to tanking. I have found the matchup against legitimate players to be favourable to Tyranitar. Super-scoop up also makes it much harder for them to get the clutch KOs too.

The only matchups that scare me at all are VileGar and Donphan/Champ, both which aren't really on the radar here. And if people start switching to fighting decks to counter the dark decks, then the LostGar decks will just go back and start beating them (which has shown in testing to be definitely in LostGar's favour).

I actually would be happy with a second unown Q so I can throw one on my first sableye/spiritomb and still make and retreat an uxie X later in the game.

 

[The_Legend]

I love to play T-Tar, but the problem seems to be that you just have to tech for so many things. You need bench shield to spread, you might want ampharos PL against SP(not saying that it allways works), exploud for fighting types(even then donphan is still a hard matchup), some play Honchkrow for the power, some play manectric, etc.

T-tar dominates so many things, but usually loses to things that it didn't tech against. For example, I played T-tar at nats. I went up against only 3 decks that weren't fighting or that didn't play nidoqueen. I had fully teched for luxchomp and jumpluff, but did not go up against either one in the nine rounds. (although I did play against a BLG+Dialga, but I don't count that as luxchomp). So I lost 5 games to 3 nidoqueen decks, 1 kabutops deck, and one donphan deck.

So really, you just have to get the right matchups, and hope for the best.

Right now, I play T-tar with bench shields, spiritomb, and ampharos, and I play spread style with DCE for backup just in case.

lol see the problem is that you just don't know how to play T-tar, trying to tech against everything is a sure way to lose because your deck will no longer run the way it should against decks it doesn't need those techs for and they just clog up your hand. I have seen T-tar top cut and win over and over because he has a great list plus it helps he is a great player. I don't think he would like it if I revealed his list but ill tell you this, 3-3-3 T-tar 2-2-2 ampy and queen with 4 collector and tomb is the way to go. I'm not gunna get back on here and debate with anyone about this because I have seen it proven whether you guys believe it I couldn't care less, just dropping some friendly advice. :]

 

[thunderjolt]

@The ledgend -No I was saying that I don't tech very much in my T-tar, which makes it a tough matchup against fighting type decks. Also, how are bench shields, a 1-1-1 ampharos, and 4 spiritombs too much of a tech, cuz that's what my T-tar deck's techs are. I would consider 2-2-2 Queen with 2-2-2 ampharos as teching too much compared to what I have.

I was only listing the possible techs that someone could use in T-tar, not saying that you should put them all in there. If that were the case, then I would agree with you--that would be way too much teching. I say that using 7-10 slots is about the maximum space that anybody should use for techs/aids.

Just because my T-tar deck loses to fighting decks does not mean that I don't know how to play T-tar, it just means that I don't want to waste the space to tech against fighting decks.

 

[HRPrime]

Cards I sugest playing in T-tar is:
Unown Q (quick retreat)
Unown D-A-R-K (for dark energies)
Uxie LA (well its recommended for every deck)
Azelf (get needed Pokemon out of Prize cards)
Chatot G (to get Trainers)
Chatot MD (for its Mimic attack)
Sableye SF
sp Dark
Bench Shield
Black belt (for emergencies if your falling behind)
Twins (for emergencies if your falling behind)

Bench Shield can be use for protecting you non-dark Pokemon or protecting Pokemon from snipes

 

[Blitzer]

T-tar SF is a good card but its best to save the best for last (if you can get it to its best part possible, witch is allot of energies are attached to him). I would pull out T-tar SF once I have one T-tar Prime in play with 4 Energies on him (3 if he has a DCE). Once that T-tar Prime is in play start building up on T-tar SF by placing energies until T-tar Prime gets prized (or the Maximin damage that T-tar Sf can do, with Grind, is 170 Damage, no need to go into the 210 and up). send out T-tar SF and defeat as many Pokemon as I can with it.

Or you can just power him up and let him rest in the bench until I'm out of options. That mean using him as a anchor to get the deck threw.

BTW the link above is a unupdated "T-tar's Tail Of Victory!!!" deck. Here is the update:
4/3/4 T-tar (3 Prime 1 SF)
2 Uxie LA
1 Azelf LA
1 Chatot G SV
1 Chatot MD
4 Sableye SF
1 Unown D-A-R-K UD

1 BTS
1 Alph Lithograph HGSS
4 Rare Candy'
3 Judge
1 Luxury Ball
4 Bebe's Search
1 Seeker
1 Copycat
2 VS Seeker
2 Dual Ball
1 Guidance
1 Twin
3 PlusPower
1 Black Belt
1 Communication

1 Warp Energy
1 Rainbow Energy
3 DCE
4 sp Dark
3 :dark: Energy

Why are you running Dual ball, Cynthia's Pluspowers, and Black belt and no collectors OR Expert Belts. THat just is not goodddd.

 

[Shen]

I've been playing T-Tar for some time now (before LostGar got hyped but I did make it to contend with VileGar). Feinting Spell still bites against VileGar =/ But even the most consistent LostGar lists have a tough time keeping up with T-Tar. There is almost no way they will get rid of T-Tar itself, and they have to get a new Gengar out every single turn. Even with Rescue Energies, it's hard match, because Gengar usually isn't around more than 1 turn (and Rescues don't pay for Hurl).

I don't get why SF T-Tar is getting so much hate. Emergencies only? I don't see how it has any utilities that call for emergencies. DCE lets it do 40 (or 60 if you're fortunate enough to grab a belt) instantly, setting up KO's. It Powers itself up and does not suffer from 2x weakness. The Prime needs 2 turns before it can attack (Unless you Howl, but I seriously find it hurting me more than helping me most the time). The Prime is almost the definition of a utility card... a single energy attack to reach the bench, an affordable attack to break through defense (including Azelf Lv.X's Psychic Aura), and an attack to score OHKO's.

IMO, SF T-Tar is superior in every way unless a situation calls for one of those attacks. I would also rather be Grinding for OHKO's then decking myself. That's JMO... I did play 2 of each T-Tar for awhile but then I converted to 3 SF, 1 Prime.

I do have a couple concerns for T-Tar. Namely, Machamp/Donphan/Promocroak. I don't think I'll be seeing much Donphan, and Promocroak only counts after a KO. In other words, if you draw first blood (easier said than done against SP, I know), it can't win them the game. Machamp is tough, it's just so efficient against T-Tar with its high HP and its ability to 2HKO and eventually OHKO. Gyara is closer than I would like it to be, but from my experience I think its slightly favorable and I don't think it'll see much play at states. I'm still working on SP.

If anyone has any other playtesting experience or plausible techs they'd like to share, I'd be happy to hear

 

[thunderjolt]

I have a hard time consistently beating luxchomp. In the last cities, I made top 8, beat a vilegar, made top 4, beat a luxchomp 2-1, made it into top 2, and lost to a luxchomp 0-2.

I rarely run T-tar, because I have a high luxchomp and donchamp meta. So my question is, what can you tech in to beat constantly luxchomp? My strategy may be wrong though: if they play a lot of pixies, I spread to knock them out, but if they don't, then I megaton tail for OHKO's. However, it is hard to constantly have a fully charged T-tar up all game. What is your strategy against Luxchomp?

 

[HRPrime]

Why are you running Dual ball, Cynthia's Pluspowers, and Black belt and no collectors OR Expert Belts. THat just is not goodddd.

I don't have any collectors
I will put in E-belt

 

[Barkjon]

^
Dude, Collectors are essential for any deck. I'd recommend getting 3 of them, as that is generally the play. They might cost a bit, but you need them if you are going to go competitive - plus, they will stay in format for a while.

 

[HRPrime]

^
Dude, Collectors are essential for any deck. I'd recommend getting 3 of them, as that is generally the play. They might cost a bit, but you need them if you are going to go competitive - plus, they will stay in format for a while.

I know there are essential for any deck and I will get them as soon as possible!

 

[mikeg542]

I have a hard time consistently beating luxchomp. In the last cities, I made top 8, beat a vilegar, made top 4, beat a luxchomp 2-1, made it into top 2, and lost to a luxchomp 0-2.

I rarely run T-tar, because I have a high luxchomp and donchamp meta. So my question is, what can you tech in to beat constantly luxchomp? My strategy may be wrong though: if they play a lot of pixies, I spread to knock them out, but if they don't, then I megaton tail for OHKO's. However, it is hard to constantly have a fully charged T-tar up all game. What is your strategy against Luxchomp?

I've been having decent success in this match up actually. Getting a spiritomb up active quick is a good way to start off the match because it usually gives you a couple of turns to set up a tyranitar prime or two. Use unown Q to get the tyranitar up (usually turn 3) and start hitting for 150 and 0HKOing everything. While doing this, set up more on your bench, never playing out any without the ability to get it straight to a prime or they'll just snipe the pupitar and ruin your day. Hide you uxie drops behind a spiritomb and if you play it well, once they finally kill the first tyranitar, you're all ready with another one to start the OHKOing all over again. Spiritomb is a pretty big deal here and helps a lot. The huge HP on tyranitar makes the prize race much in your favour as long as you don't walk into snipes when setting up the next one!

 

[Kayle]

I know there are essential for any deck and I will get them as soon as possible!

Don't playtest with anything else. Take useless commons and sharpie "Collector" over them if you have to.

If you want to play top tier, play top tier

 

[cabd]

Don't playtest with anything else. Take useless commons and sharpie "Collector" over them if you have to.

If you want to play top tier, play top tier

Gonna have to agree here. We'd love to help you, man, but you need to get used to the idea of proxies, or if marking cards hurts inside, learn to play on redshark. I'm sure plenty of us here would be happy to help you out and teach you the meta.

 

[HRPrime]

Ok I will, does anyone else want to post their deck on here?

 

[Shen]

On the Luxchomp topic:

I agree, T-Tar Prime is pretty good in this match-up if you get it going. Being able to OHKO SP's is essential so they don't have a chance to Poketurn. However, that's easier said than done sometimes. SF T-Tar is nice because they will almost always use a few Powers and DCEing Grind quickly sets up KO's (The Prime either needs 2 turns to do a solid attack). When you do get to the point where you're scoring OHKO's, you're in a pretty good position. Even Promocroak needs Crobats in order to KO in one turn, which could feed a benched SF T-Tar.

Also, for what it's worth... SF Pupitar has saved me from being sniped on occasion lol >.>

 

[HRPrime]

On the Luxchomp topic:

I agree, T-Tar Prime is pretty good in this match-up if you get it going. Being able to OHKO SP's is essential so they don't have a chance to Poketurn. However, that's easier said than done sometimes. SF T-Tar is nice because they will almost always use a few Powers and DCEing Grind quickly sets up KO's (The Prime either needs 2 turns to do a solid attack). When you do get to the point where you're scoring OHKO's, you're in a pretty good position. Even Promocroak needs Crobats in order to KO in one turn, which could feed a benched SF T-Tar.

Also, for what it's worth... SF Pupitar has saved me from being sniped on occasion lol >.>

If you can get at least two T-tars with full energies on them (with SF, Grind doing at leased 150), your opponent is going to have a hard time winning.

 

[Blitzer]

But you will not ever have 2 Tyranitars fully charged against LuxChomp or LostGar OR Gyarados. So really that means the only way to win would be to hope your opponent has a REALLY fail start. Otherwise, I would look for a way to counter speed, which would be 4 Spiritomb AR.

 

[HRPrime]

My T-tar has had fairly good speed and has made it to 2 T-tars or more right when my starting Pokemon is knocked out. I'm sure, with the right cards you can have a T-tar deck that has a fast set up.

 

[Qwachansey]

My T-tar build was having trouble with Luxchomp so I added Machamp

I use Machamp against Luxchomp for yum yum yumminess and Tyranitar/Ampharos against Gengars more yumminess. This is the way to go.