U.A.A.S.T. Underground Association For The Advancement Of Shuffle Trackers

[Ghetto Overlord]

Underground Association For The Advancement Of Shuffle Trackers

Hi i'm Ghetto Overlord and I have been playing Pokemon for many years and have found many of the rules weird or uncalled for but none more so than the ban of shuffle tracking. Shuffle tracking is mentally keeping track of a certain card’s location in your deck while you shuffle, therefore giving you a (slight) advantage. For example, if I know that there is a clump of Mesprits in the middle of my deck, then it’s better to play Bebe’s Search rather than try to draw into it using Felicity’s Drawing. Some of the rules made by Pokemon Organized Play I can understand; such as the ‘no music’ rule, because some joker got a walkie-talkie and had someone read him the cards in his opponent’s. This makes sense, no matter how unfair group punishment may be. However, I find the ban on shuffle tracking ridiculous because when you shuffle track you are neither changing the rules of the game or using some outside source for aid. You’re using your head and memorization skills. In addition, according to the Azelf rule, you are no longer allowed to write down the cards in your prizes, but you can remember where the cards are placed… but you can’t remember where the cards are in your deck because the deck is special some how? I find this inconsistence with in the games rules very bother some. I also am against such a harsh punishment given to the shuffle trackers as spelled out by Poke Pop here. http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=95122

So I am starting this organization to change this rule because it favors the players who don’t pay as close attention and make the rules favor the players that keep a close on on every aspect of the game.

Thank you for your time and attention
- Ghetto Overlord
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[edit: can someone lock this thread]​

 

[SD PokeMom]

so if your deck is randomized, how are you 'keeping track' of where any card is without LOOKING at your deck during the shuffle? or without having stacked prior to the shuffle?

'mom

 

[Blaziken 1111]

Umm sorry but knowing were cards are in your deck is illegal. Shuffleing is randomizing your deck so neither player has an idea what is the top card and remembering the clumps is giving you the advantage of knowing what the potential top cards are so that is completely illigal. Why not instead of cheating separate the clumps to increase the chances of drawing that cards you want.

Also with the azelf thing... You don't need to shuffle your prizes, you are alowed to remember where they are.

 

[M_Liesik]

The whole point of shuffling is to randomize your deck so that you don't know what order the cards are in anymore. Anything less than that is stacking your deck, which is cheating, which is illegal and will get you DQ'd from an event.

 

[DarthPika]

The whole point of shuffling is to randomize your deck so that you don't know what order the cards are in anymore. Anything less than that is stacking your deck, which is cheating, which is illegal and will get you DQ'd from an event.

Actually, it is possible to have an idea of where a card is, even after a good shuffle. (say you look through your deck, notice a cards location, shuffle. Just by knowing how the deck was shuffled it is quite possible to have a decent idea of where in the deck it is)

 

[SD PokeMom]

Actually, it is possible to have an idea of where a card is, even after a good shuffle. (say you look through your deck, notice a cards location, shuffle. Just by knowing how the deck was shuffled it is quite possible to have a decent idea of where in the deck it is)

if you did so, you didn't _randomize_ the deck, did you?

'mom

 

[DarthPika]

It's random, and I wouldn't know the exact location of X card, but I could probably give a good guess at where it is.

 

[Lucario EX]

The point is that your deck should be random enough that you have no idea where any card is. Random means random.

 

[DarthPika]

I'm not saying that the cards arn't random. Only that it is possible by logic to get an idea of where a card in your deck is.

 

[Ghetto Overlord]

so if your deck is randomized, how are you 'keeping track' of where any card is without LOOKING at your deck during the shuffle? or without having stacked prior to the shuffle?

'mom

Like if you play a Bebe's Search or Rosanne's research you get to look threw your deck and so you can memeorize the order. Or if you look at it pregame.

Umm sorry but knowing were cards are in your deck is illegal. Shuffleing is randomizing your deck so neither player has an idea what is the top card and remembering the clumps is giving you the advantage of knowing what the potential top cards are so that is completely illigal. Why not instead of cheating separate the clumps to increase the chances of drawing that cards you want.

Also with the azelf thing... You don't need to shuffle your prizes, you are alowed to remember where they are.

I am aware that it is illegal and thats why this thread is here so i can try to change it

if you did so, you didn't _randomize_ the deck, did you?

'mom

No you did, you shuffled the deck and your opponet cut. That sounds random to me

 

[M_Liesik]

I am aware that it is illegal and thats why this thread is here so i can try to change it

I guarantee you that won't happen.

 

[Azure Kite]

If you shuffled, had it cut, and STILL know where in the deck certain cards are, then there is a MAJOR problem. As said, the point of shuffling and cutting is to randomize so you CANNOT have an advantage. This isn't just Pokemon, this is how it is in Yu-Gi-Oh and (I assume) MTG. You cannot just easily go and change a rule that has become universal throughout strategical TCG franchises.

 

[Ghetto Overlord]

I guarantee you that won't happen.

If you shuffled, had it cut, and STILL know where in the deck certain cards are, then there is a MAJOR problem. As said, the point of shuffling and cutting is to randomize so you CANNOT have an advantage. This isn't just Pokemon, this is how it is in Yu-Gi-Oh and (I assume) MTG. You cannot just easily go and change a rule that has become universal throughout strategical TCG franchises.

I know that is is asking is highly unlikley to happen however last year there was a thread that asked for the banning of plox. which is an entire deck. I am asking for a change in a rule that harms people that are using there own inteligence and memory to gain an edge.

As a side note if you and your opponet are doing it is it really an edge on either player?

 

[Suicide]

I have another name for what one might call a shuffle tracker, Hustler. A hustler keeps track of the cards so they can cheat you out of your money. By doing this your cheating someone out of a win by having an unfair advantage because you are circumventing the rules.

 

[M_Liesik]

I know that is is asking is highly unlikley to happen however last year there was a thread that asked for the banning of plox. which is an entire deck. I am asking for a change in a rule that harms people that are using there own inteligence and memory to gain an edge.

Did PLOX get banned last year?

As a side note if you and your opponet are doing it is it really an edge on either player?

Then you and your opponent are both cheating and I'll happily DQ you from my event.

 

[Azure Kite]

I know that is is asking is highly unlikley to happen however last year there was a thread that asked for the banning of plox. which is an entire deck. I am asking for a change in a rule that harms people that are using there own inteligence and memory to gain an edge.

As a side note if you and your opponet are doing it is it really an edge on either player?

This rule is here to make it fair. That means equal ground for everyone, and sets the criteria so the only expertise you can utilize in a match is sheerly your deck strength and your strength using the deck. The problem is not everyone can use their own intelligence and memory to their advantage for a variety of reasons. It, however, is possible for most if not all to build experience and a deck to do well in a tournament.

 

[Ghetto Overlord]

Then you and your opponent are both cheating and I'll happily DQ you from my event.

Oh, this is another point I forgot to mention in the top portion, thank you for bringing it up: How does a judge tell what a player is doing inside thier head with out them being a mind reader? So for having such a harsh punishment there is little to base your DQing on. Oh and I am not claiming to be a shuffle tracker I am just fighting for thier rights and against an unfair and confineing rule. So at states tommarrow I dont want people to be calling me a cheater

I have another name for what one might call a shuffle tracker, Hustler. A hustler keeps track of the cards so they can cheat you out of your money. By doing this your cheating someone out of a win by having an unfair advantage because you are circumventing the rules.

Thank you but I did not need the defintion for a hustler, just saying any one that did this was a hustler would have been enough

 

[totoro]

Nate, you've successfully managed to draw attention to yourself the day before my states. I'm really shocked and surprised that you'd post something like this--it just doesn't seem like you.

There is a reason why shuffling takes place after so many actions in Pokémon. Your deck's order, for the most part, should be completely unknown to you. This post has major implications for how judges observe your play and I hope that you're prepared for them.

 

[Ghetto Overlord]

Nate, you've successfully managed to draw attention to yourself the day before my states. I'm really shocked and surprised that you'd post something like this--it just doesn't seem like you.

There is a reason why shuffling takes place after so many actions in Pokémon. Your deck's order, for the most part, should be completely unknown to you. This post has major implications for how judges observe your play and I hope that you're prepared for them.

First I apologize for any inconvenience to judges that I may have caused with this post I simply found the rule wrong and wished to express my opinion on how I think this rule should be changed

Second as I sayed in my previous post I am not a cheater so the judges can watch however they will not find anything because I will not be doing anything

 

[totoro]

So, my judges won't need to pile shuffle your deck after every "shuffle" called for during your game??? (I'm totally serious about this!) I really don't see how the rule is "wrong"--maybe I'm not understanding. If you want to memorize the order of the 2 cards you've put on the bottom for a CP Claydol, then Psychic Restore your Uxie behind that, sure, you can "know" the order of those cards--until the next time you "shuffle". Once that happens those cards could be/should be ANYWHERE in your deck.