US Prerelease prize structure change
- Thread starter farbsman
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Rainbowgym
Active Member
Well we are Aalsmeer, Amsterdam, Made, Utrecht and Oss and we are not Sanctioning anymore.
We were not allowed to run a CC.
Groningen, Leiden are only doing unlimited And we were refused to play in the Groningen CC.
Leiden kicked me almost out of the CC because I had a Promo Torchic in a deck and because that local TO didn't had that one already he told me that my deck was illegal and didn't want to let me play.
While this promo was released in de US and tournament legal. But I could only play after I removed it.
Assen I don't know I saw they should have a 16 players prerelease but that one was cancelled. (and that's also a 2,5 hours single way drive.
We were not allowed to run a CC.
Groningen, Leiden are only doing unlimited And we were refused to play in the Groningen CC.
Leiden kicked me almost out of the CC because I had a Promo Torchic in a deck and because that local TO didn't had that one already he told me that my deck was illegal and didn't want to let me play.
While this promo was released in de US and tournament legal. But I could only play after I removed it.
Assen I don't know I saw they should have a 16 players prerelease but that one was cancelled. (and that's also a 2,5 hours single way drive.
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Marcello-Milord
New Member
Pop, I assume that this will be approximately the structure for the whole world's prereleases.....
M45, yah I understand your reasoning to "beef up" prize support for winners as a business decision to boost attendance.
I assume the intent of the new prize payout is to reward lesser players for attending. But, this comes at the expense of the rewards given to the better players. I suppose what you're trying to do is supplement the prize support that was taken away from the better players.
Good luck. Hopefully your added incentive will pay-off with better attendance to cover your added cost.
Nevertheless, let me repeat that it's NOT a good business decision to reward top players with free boosters. By doing this, these top players are more likely to buy less boosters from the local stores. And, top players typically have the highest incentive to spend more money on boosters. Our PTO is a store owner. Rewarding top players with lots of free boosters impacts his sales. That's NOT a good business decision.
So, your decision to "beef up" the prize support may be good for you as a PTO in order to boost attendance. But, it's NOT good for store owners.
That's my point.
I assume the intent of the new prize payout is to reward lesser players for attending. But, this comes at the expense of the rewards given to the better players. I suppose what you're trying to do is supplement the prize support that was taken away from the better players.
Good luck. Hopefully your added incentive will pay-off with better attendance to cover your added cost.
Nevertheless, let me repeat that it's NOT a good business decision to reward top players with free boosters. By doing this, these top players are more likely to buy less boosters from the local stores. And, top players typically have the highest incentive to spend more money on boosters. Our PTO is a store owner. Rewarding top players with lots of free boosters impacts his sales. That's NOT a good business decision.
So, your decision to "beef up" the prize support may be good for you as a PTO in order to boost attendance. But, it's NOT good for store owners.
That's my point.
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Articjedi
Active Member
Okay, after reading every single post, I've decided to add something to the conversation. I'm also going to applaud meg45 for figuring out a way to make everyone happy 
. If I'm ever in the area (I most likely will not, considering where I live), I'll definently have to come.
I think this new prize structure borders on the extreme. They definently should have thought about the more elite players who want to win something big for entering these tournaments. It wouldn't have been so bad if PUI simply "recurved the bell" for prize distribution instead of making such a flat prize structure. There is now no incentive for veterans to come and try to win their boxes.
The fact is, under both systems, there are going to be low turnouts on the prereleases. If you use the old system, it will be much more difficult to get new players involved in the game because there isn't much incentive to go to a prerelease if you can get cards cheaper through other venues. Your prerelease numbers will stablize, but not to a point that a TO would like.
However, under the new system, you're going to get a huge incentive for younger, new players for going. This new system does favor younger players looking for cheap ways to get packs for their decks. However, you screw every veteran player trying to get a box for themselves. They won't go to prereleases, as already said by plenty of members of this board and most likely be the concensus of many older players of this game.
I would have liked it better if PUI simply tweaked the structure instead of flattening it to this system. Something like:
2 packs for everyone at the end and a couple tournament boosters,
24 packs for the winner of each age division
12 the 2nd place finisher
6 for 3rd-4th place finisher
3 for 5th-8th
That way you would have had a system that still had an incentive for younger players to attend their prereleases, and still had enough of a large prize for veterans to go (please don't start complaining, "but it's not a full box").
I guess for now, TO's are obviously going to modify the prizes for the winners. I'm sick of hearing the complaints.
. If I'm ever in the area (I most likely will not, considering where I live), I'll definently have to come.I think this new prize structure borders on the extreme. They definently should have thought about the more elite players who want to win something big for entering these tournaments. It wouldn't have been so bad if PUI simply "recurved the bell" for prize distribution instead of making such a flat prize structure. There is now no incentive for veterans to come and try to win their boxes.
The fact is, under both systems, there are going to be low turnouts on the prereleases. If you use the old system, it will be much more difficult to get new players involved in the game because there isn't much incentive to go to a prerelease if you can get cards cheaper through other venues. Your prerelease numbers will stablize, but not to a point that a TO would like.
However, under the new system, you're going to get a huge incentive for younger, new players for going. This new system does favor younger players looking for cheap ways to get packs for their decks. However, you screw every veteran player trying to get a box for themselves. They won't go to prereleases, as already said by plenty of members of this board and most likely be the concensus of many older players of this game.
I would have liked it better if PUI simply tweaked the structure instead of flattening it to this system. Something like:
2 packs for everyone at the end and a couple tournament boosters,
24 packs for the winner of each age division
12 the 2nd place finisher
6 for 3rd-4th place finisher
3 for 5th-8th
That way you would have had a system that still had an incentive for younger players to attend their prereleases, and still had enough of a large prize for veterans to go (please don't start complaining, "but it's not a full box").
I guess for now, TO's are obviously going to modify the prizes for the winners. I'm sick of hearing the complaints.
Question:
How does Pokemon prize support compare to other TCGs?
According to my PTO who also runs Upper Deck, WOTC, and Decipher pre-releases and tournaments, Pokemon prize support FAR EXCEEDS anything else.
IMO, Pokemon players have become "spoiled."
But then again, those other TCGs don't retain their players like Pokemon does. So, I guess there's a trade-off.
How does Pokemon prize support compare to other TCGs?
According to my PTO who also runs Upper Deck, WOTC, and Decipher pre-releases and tournaments, Pokemon prize support FAR EXCEEDS anything else.
IMO, Pokemon players have become "spoiled."
But then again, those other TCGs don't retain their players like Pokemon does. So, I guess there's a trade-off.
)v(ajin_ipg21
New Member
Score DBZ/DBGT:
$20 usually buys you 1 Starter (if the set has no starters you buy on from the previous set) + 4 Boosters
Prereleases have an Exclusive Promo for entering (worth $$ of only sold immediately)
Depending on the store (some are such prize hoarders that seel on EBAY =/)
THere are only Top prizes for 2 Finalist:
An extremely hard to get Promo for 1st place, and some other Promo for the Top2-4.
And boosters are given out to the top4 at the discretion of the store (BUT NEVER a box nor half a box for the finalist, perhaps 4-6 booster packs)
That TOp promo could hold some value (playability/collectibility) BUT SCORE is very inconsistent with either...
YEP Finalist Pokemon players have it pretty good...
There was a reason why I liked to TO or Judge at OP events ~ compensation was nice... and like SteveP says... top players can be infamous for not spending much money at their local shops (they have all the cards)
$20 usually buys you 1 Starter (if the set has no starters you buy on from the previous set) + 4 Boosters
Prereleases have an Exclusive Promo for entering (worth $$ of only sold immediately)
Depending on the store (some are such prize hoarders that seel on EBAY =/)
THere are only Top prizes for 2 Finalist:
An extremely hard to get Promo for 1st place, and some other Promo for the Top2-4.
And boosters are given out to the top4 at the discretion of the store (BUT NEVER a box nor half a box for the finalist, perhaps 4-6 booster packs)
That TOp promo could hold some value (playability/collectibility) BUT SCORE is very inconsistent with either...
YEP Finalist Pokemon players have it pretty good...
There was a reason why I liked to TO or Judge at OP events
~ compensation was nice... and like SteveP says... top players can be infamous for not spending much money at their local shops (they have all the cards)
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The last time I played at a MTG prerelease, I think it was the Torment release, it seemed that the prize structure was similar to what Pokemon used to be with a box for first and then down from there.
In MTG prerelease, when I played, you got a sealed deck of 75 cards including land cards (I think it was 75) along with three booster packs of 15 cards each, all for $20. It was a few years ago and, as an old man, my memory may not be accurate. I don't remember any age divisions at the MTG prereleases. Everyone competed against everyone else.
MTG has a pro tour with big cash prizes as well as a junior series for younger players. It is, in my opinion, a more challenging game than Pokemon, but not near as much fun! WOTC did a great job of running MTG, but I've never seen anything like what I saw at Worlds this year. That was the funnest event I've ever attended.
This new prize structure should get more cards to more players while giving everyone a chance to compete for ratings points and trophys. It seems to me to be a great plan to move Pokemon up another notch.
In MTG prerelease, when I played, you got a sealed deck of 75 cards including land cards (I think it was 75) along with three booster packs of 15 cards each, all for $20. It was a few years ago and, as an old man, my memory may not be accurate. I don't remember any age divisions at the MTG prereleases. Everyone competed against everyone else.
MTG has a pro tour with big cash prizes as well as a junior series for younger players. It is, in my opinion, a more challenging game than Pokemon, but not near as much fun! WOTC did a great job of running MTG, but I've never seen anything like what I saw at Worlds this year. That was the funnest event I've ever attended.
This new prize structure should get more cards to more players while giving everyone a chance to compete for ratings points and trophys. It seems to me to be a great plan to move Pokemon up another notch.
PokeMontoya
New Member
Im so glad I got to be Staff at the FRLG Prerelease
Lets not forget that ranking points will be still be at stake and you wont want to "tank" your games to just get your 10 packs and run. Thats if PUI will be using the Limited portion of your rankings for invites to Worlds. I am warming up to the idea of 10 pks for all, but would still like a bit of a bump for the top 4, even if it is just a few more packs (4 for 3rd and 4th, 6 of 2nd and 8 for 1st for example) Of course, Vince can keep the full box option and maybe I can make it to Memphis
Keith
Keith
Well, this change could be good and bad. Good -it gives everyone a chance to get the same amount for the same price. Bad- it gives people who soley (sp?) rely on winning more incentive to purchase packs. I personally think it would be more even if the promo was a decent card or holo - like Armaldo or Clefable, or something like that.
FireFighter095ReBorn
New Member
Professor Dav said:
I am glad someoen from POP defends this new structure. I like the new idea you created and how it will be run. It will be fun to see how it worlks when the next prereleses come around.
Pokeplayer
New Member
I would like to let the Seattle area players that your PTO is aware of this issue and is working to resolve it...
I have some legwork and stuff to do...L iwll let you know soon about how the prize structure will be augmented...
Iam not ready at this time to announce like M45 any guarenteed prizes...I applaud M45 for taking the lead on this issue.....
Seattle area players please be patient...........................
PM me if you have comments/complaints/suggestions, etc...
I have some legwork and stuff to do...L iwll let you know soon about how the prize structure will be augmented...
Iam not ready at this time to announce like M45 any guarenteed prizes...I applaud M45 for taking the lead on this issue.....
Seattle area players please be patient...........................
PM me if you have comments/complaints/suggestions, etc...
Top Pokemon players have become "so spoiled" by winning lots of boosters at major tournaments that they now feel it's an "entitlement" for them to get a box of boosters when they win. It appears that some PTOs feel the need to continue this perceived "entitlement" at the expense of sales at their local card shops.
You know, at most LOTR tournaments, where the players are a little more "mature," the prize payout if fairly uniform. Sometimes, we even do a reverse-payout, where the lesser players get the most prizes. Afterall, it's THOSE players who need the boosters the most, not the better players. Plus, those lesser players are the ones who are the most excited when they get prizes. Those who can't see that are blind.
If I was a PTO and had extra boosters to give out, I'd do it uniformly. "The rich getting richer, and the poor getting poorer" is NOT something I want to promote at my tournaments.
If trophies and such are not adequate recognition for top performers, then I believe we've become too greedy in our expectations for prize payouts.
You know, at most LOTR tournaments, where the players are a little more "mature," the prize payout if fairly uniform. Sometimes, we even do a reverse-payout, where the lesser players get the most prizes. Afterall, it's THOSE players who need the boosters the most, not the better players. Plus, those lesser players are the ones who are the most excited when they get prizes. Those who can't see that are blind.
If I was a PTO and had extra boosters to give out, I'd do it uniformly. "The rich getting richer, and the poor getting poorer" is NOT something I want to promote at my tournaments.
If trophies and such are not adequate recognition for top performers, then I believe we've become too greedy in our expectations for prize payouts.
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Broken Lizard
New Member
SteveP:
I hardly think that it's fair to call a player 'spoiled' if they are not willing to drive a total of 3-4 hours and burn most of a tank of gas to get 10 boosters for $20.
I myself will not do it. I have driven to many tournaments that were hours distant. Yes, it's partly for the fun of the tourney, but it's also made worthwhile by the lure of decent prizes.
Somehow my shop owner seems to think that a large tournament attendance is good for his bottom line overall. Imagine that!
Do you even RUN tournaments? Do YOU risk taking losses on unused boxes you've ordered?
Thanks, but I'll continue my 'immature' practice of giving better prizes to higher performing players ON TOP OF THE MINIMUM. My players actually get excited by the chance to win bigger prizes. (How immature of them!)
And, if LotR is so much better, with so many more 'mature' players, then why do you even bother with THIS game, which is obviously so beneath you?! :nonono:
I hardly think that it's fair to call a player 'spoiled' if they are not willing to drive a total of 3-4 hours and burn most of a tank of gas to get 10 boosters for $20.
I myself will not do it. I have driven to many tournaments that were hours distant. Yes, it's partly for the fun of the tourney, but it's also made worthwhile by the lure of decent prizes.
Somehow my shop owner seems to think that a large tournament attendance is good for his bottom line overall. Imagine that!
Do you even RUN tournaments? Do YOU risk taking losses on unused boxes you've ordered?
Thanks, but I'll continue my 'immature' practice of giving better prizes to higher performing players ON TOP OF THE MINIMUM. My players actually get excited by the chance to win bigger prizes. (How immature of them!)
And, if LotR is so much better, with so many more 'mature' players, then why do you even bother with THIS game, which is obviously so beneath you?! :nonono:
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Jeremy Badeaux
New Member
SteveP said:
Q. If we reverse the prize payout(so the lower ranks get better prizes), do you know what will happen?
A. The players who notice the blatant flaw in the system would just start throwing games, and end up with a worse rank(and more prizes).
SteveP said:
I've noticed that your posts tend to sound slightly defensive. Or is it just me?
I don't think that the players have become greedy at all.
If a company tells it's players to come play in a large event, why shouldn't a player expect something more for the top finishers(a random trophy to first doesn't really count)?
To be perfectly honest, if you think that giving legitimate prizes at a prerelease hurts the local shops, then why do you even run prereleases to begin with(since giving out product without the store selling it is bad for business)?
There is text that states that prereleases still have the regular entry fee. . . I'm kind of wondering how that post wasn't a threadjack(since it doesn't apply to this thread in any way)?
I applaud the PTOs who are going to dip into their own profits to keep the players happy.
I can honestly see where some people get the notion that this is nothing more than an atempt by POP to make more money.
In the past, at least one player from each divison had a solid chance at getting about everything they needed from the set.
Now(if you follow POP standards), it's nearly impossible for any player in the tournament to get anywhere near what they need to get in order to build decks.
Instead of most people still needing a lot from the set after the prerelease, everybody would need a lot from the set after the prerelease(meaning that more people will need to make mass purchases of the set).
I'm not saying that those are my own feelings, but I can definitely understand what other people mean when they bring that up.
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I'm fine with that. IMO, pre-releases are meant to be local events, for the local players. An increase of local players, and a decrease of non-local "sharks" is GOOD for my local store.Broken Lizard said:
A large attendance of non-buying customers is what I'm talking about here. If your store owner sees an increase in attendance, yet no proportional increase in sales, I don't think they'd see that as good.Broken Lizard said:
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.Broken Lizard said:Do you even RUN tournaments? Do YOU risk taking losses on unused boxes you've ordered?
Let's see. So it's more mature for players to covet more boosters, yet not be considerate of those who are less fortune?Broken Lizard said:
I'll admit that I like Pokemon because of it's generosity in prize payouts. Because I play other TCGs, I have a decent perspective about HOW generous Pokemon is. I can see that others don't have that same vision.Broken Lizard said:
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Broken Lizard
New Member
SteveP:
Let's take a real-world example:
I have a league player who is currently ranked 5th in the 11-14 division worldwide in Modified.
He is not rich. He spends ALL of his allowance money on Pokémon. ALL of it.
At $5/week, he can NOT afford to pick up 3-4 Blastoise ex or to buy several boxes from our local shop. He spends all he can there.
I think it is only fair to reward his dedication to playing this game since 1998 with opportunities to WIN more than 4 prize packs at a prerelease.
Perhaps the wealthy are also blind to certain realities.
Now THAT is irony...
Let's take a real-world example:
I have a league player who is currently ranked 5th in the 11-14 division worldwide in Modified.
He is not rich. He spends ALL of his allowance money on Pokémon. ALL of it.
At $5/week, he can NOT afford to pick up 3-4 Blastoise ex or to buy several boxes from our local shop. He spends all he can there.
I think it is only fair to reward his dedication to playing this game since 1998 with opportunities to WIN more than 4 prize packs at a prerelease.
Perhaps the wealthy are also blind to certain realities.
SteveP said:
Now THAT is irony...
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