WEREWOLF XV: Pokemon Wars: GAME END: TOWN WINS!!!!! See Post 2547 for Final Update!

[PokeChampofPokeBeach]

@ Napoleon:

Typically, the targets protected by priests also cannot use their role during that night. There are of course exceptions, such as the GM's preference on how to run this sort of role, and typically the roles of Werewolves are not blocked by this effect. If you protect a Werewolf, it is a general waste of the priest's time to do so. This is generally speaking, of course. I have no idea how Absoltrainer wrote the priest's (or priests') role(s). So what Benson said isn't incorrect. However, it it still an assumption on his part.

On a different note, Pikamaster made a good point about Cardz. Why is he constantly being silenced? This can't be the work of a townie, because silencing a vet would only limit discussion. So I think it's not entirely bad to assume that it's the work of a Werewolf. But if so, why continually silence him instead of just killing him during the night? Are there strategic implications here, or is there a different, deeper underlying reason? I believe this to be key.

On the subject of Kezzup, I agree no further votes should be cast until we are sure that there are no more defined leads. But until then, my vote remains. He hasn't defended himself at all and so far has given me no reason to make me think he's innocent.

 

[dave628]

#1181: They are probably trying to lure both priests into a false sense of security or hope. The most ideal move for a priest to make is to protect someone who the werewolves is trying to target during that particular night as it results in no kill for the werewolves. It clearly looks like the werewolves are targeting the stronger players or the player(s) who has/have started to figure out who could be a werewolves. Although obviously CardzMaster is a high value target for the werewolves.

Why did Boba Fett character not killed anyone during last night? Was he roleblocked or is he limited to killing every other night?

Another possibility for a priest to consider: try to find the two independents as they are clearly against us.

 

[toxictaipan]

First, the hardest one: I posted directly after I was called out by toxictaipan. Honestly, that was a complete coincidence. I got on after finishing my homework, and the most recent post happened to be his. You don't have to believe me on this, but that's my explanation.

It's not that your reply was directly after my post. It's how quickly you replied to me. I think it's super suspicious how you've all of a sudden found the time to play this game now that you're half way to the lynch.

You've gone the whole game without posting. Then, as soon as Absoltrainer tells you that you are required to post, it only takes you a few hours to make a post. Then you go without posting for about 48 hours, even after you said you'd try to get back on and post your suspicious. Surely you're too busy to make another post, right? Lo and behold, after I call you out on it, it only takes you a few hours to respond again.

This tells me that you're not too busy to play this game, but that you're actively reading this thread and responding only when you absolutely have to. Or are you trying to say that, although you check this thread infrequently, it just so happens that every time you do check this thread it's somehow magically only mere hours after something you need to respond to?

 

[Sandslash7]

#1183

Now that my exams are over for the week, I can finally take some time to post.

In reverse order I guess.
~Dave628: When did Wobbufett ever kill anyone? I certainly don't remember that.

~Dragonite15: You have been quoted above as saying that you bandwagoned during Day Two. Don't try to deny that you have bandwagoned.

~Kezzup: People who don't post don't add anything to the game. The whole point of werewolf is (well aside from winning) engaging in discussion and figuring out through logic who the other players are, as well as interacting with and creating the story that Absoltrainer has sparked. When you don't post at all, that is just making the game more boring and less fun for everyone else. (which goes for the other players who haven't posted)



Besides, a traditional wolf play is to hide behind the curtain. As long as people don't acknowledge their existence, they escape detection and can wreak havoc on the other players. (Eventually it gets to WIFOM, but whatever)

 

[Slowkingrocks]

...No. Priests go on confirmed innocents, not on people who get spotlighted by mod posts. Right now the closest thing we have to a confirmed innocent is Cardzmaster2004 since he's been silenced, which is generally a third party or wolf role. Thusly, priest should be on him.

I've been gone for a bit, but now that I'm back I'm going to start with this.

I find this post extremely suspicious. In it you classify cardzmaster as "close to a confirmed innocent" and then call for priest on him.

There's very little that can determine whether a role is neutral, wolf, town, or even just a drawback of their own role. I think it's fine to think of the possibility that it's a wolf role, but in this game the number one thing that can lead to a sure loss is a priest protecting a wolf.

You literally say "priests go on confirmed innocents, not people who get spotlighted by mod posts", but then later say that a priest should protect cardzmaster, who was spotlighted by the mod post! I'm not going to chalk that up to a mistake, you directly contradicted yourself because you have some tie with cardzmaster in the game and want to keep him alive. Whether a mason group, wolves, or some other reason, you seem to want him to remain in this game very much.

Even after Kezzup's contradictory suspicions of Redados, and the seemingly easy "inactive, posted a bad post, easy out" mentality, I'm going to

Vote: Napoleon

I feel that both Napoleon and Kezzup miss stepped in similar ways, and obviously Kezzup has some pressure from his inactivity. Regardless, this is my opinion on who I think we should vote out, please consider it.

 

[toxictaipan]

Day 4 has begun
Players Remaining: 32
Votes to Lynch: 17
Day 4 Ends: Monday October 2nd, 2011
Good Luck


PEOPLE WHO NEED TO POST BY THE END OF THIS GAME DAY!!!!

Lucario ex
Cardkeeper
Kezzup

@Absoltrainer: Please clarify what time the Day ends on the 2nd. 11:59 PM Central as usual?

 

[Absoltrainer]

@Absoltrainer: Please clarify what time the Day ends on the 2nd. 11:59 PM Central as usual?

Looks at title of thread
:nonono:

 

[Napoleon]

I find this post extremely suspicious. In it you classify cardzmaster as "close to a confirmed innocent" and then call for priest on him.

Damn straight I did.

There's very little that can determine whether a role is neutral, wolf, town, or even just a drawback of their own role. I think it's fine to think of the possibility that it's a wolf role, but in this game the number one thing that can lead to a sure loss is a priest protecting a wolf.

Yeah. Silencing is not pro-town. If the silencer is a townie then they really shouldn't even be using their role as it's not helping the town.

You literally say "priests go on confirmed innocents, not people who get spotlighted by mod posts"

Yup yup.

but then later say that a priest should protect cardzmaster, who was spotlighted by the mod post!

If you're affected by an anti-town role then you're town. Derp derp.

I'll go out on a limb here and say that you interpreted my post in a manner different to everyone else. If I must heavily simplify myself, the two marks of bad guy what's-his-name are not much evidence of anything as they're up for lots of interpretation and hence it's just spotlighting. Cardz, on the other hand, is consistently being targeted by a silence role, which is anti-town. Logically he's town. If I had to put a number on it, I'd say 95/5 town/non-town. That's a whole different level of evidence to what we have on anyone else. If you look closely at POSTS rather than mod comments then there's more than enough evidence to clear at least 3 other people.

Talking about that, I'm basing almost all of my reads from posts, rather than mod comments. Posts are concrete and mod comments are up for interpretation. We'd know anyway if Cardz was silenced; we'd not know if bad guy what's-his-name Naga Siren? marked two players. As a person who generally plays without flavour text I'm not as concerned with mod comments as I am with tells from the players themselves.

I'm not going to chalk that up to a mistake, you directly contradicted yourself because you have some tie with cardzmaster in the game and want to keep him alive. Whether a mason group, wolves, or some other reason, you seem to want him to remain in this game very much.

Asking for a priest on a near-confirmed innocent is hardly buddy-buddy, it's just obvious. It's better to have a priest on a near-confirmed innocent (as we don't have a seer report on him it's not complete innocence) than on a random. I'm not going to even attempt to fathom how you jumped to "scumscumburnitwithfiar" from that.

I feel that both Napoleon and Kezzup miss stepped in similar ways, and obviously Kezzup has some pressure from his inactivity.

Let us clear this up. Firstly, you put me on the same level as Kezzup, but you offer him a reprieve because he's been inactive and already has pressure? Are you mad? If someone is already pressured and you have legitimate reason to suspect them you do NOT give them a get-out-of-jail-free card and be nice. That's just wrong.

Regardless, this is my opinion on who I think we should vote out, please consider it.

If you're going to put your vote on me then use some force while you do it. If you're sure that I'm wolf then you shouldn't need to ask everyone else to consider your thoughts, unless you yourself are unsure of their validity and want someone else to come up and reinforce them?

That was actually just a legitimately bad attack. Trying to flip a wagon this far into it is usually a scumtell, so read from that what you will.

 

[toxictaipan]

Looks at title of thread
:nonono:

Hehe... :redface: What can I say? Happens to the best of us.
Posted with Mobile style...
Posted with Mobile style...

 

[Slowkingrocks]

Damn straight I did.


Yeah. Silencing is not pro-town. If the silencer is a townie then they really shouldn't even be using their role as it's not helping the town. That's how you would play that role, but you can't assume every single player in this game would do that if they had a town silencing role.



Yup yup.



If you're affected by an anti-town role then you're town. Derp derp. Again, there is no evidence that it is an anti-town role, there is never a standard "this role is town" mold.

I'll go out on a limb here and say that you interpreted my post in a manner different to everyone else. If I must heavily simplify myself, the two marks of bad guy what's-his-name are not much evidence of anything as they're up for lots of interpretation and hence it's just spotlighting. Cardz, on the other hand, is consistently being targeted by a silence role, which is anti-town. Logically he's town. If I had to put a number on it, I'd say 95/5 town/non-town. That's a whole different level of evidence to what we have on anyone else. If you look closely at POSTS rather than mod comments then there's more than enough evidence to clear at least 3 other people.

Talking about that, I'm basing almost all of my reads from posts, rather than mod comments. Posts are concrete and mod comments are up for interpretation. We'd know anyway if Cardz was silenced; we'd not know if bad guy what's-his-name Naga Siren? marked two players. As a person who generally plays without flavour text I'm not as concerned with mod comments as I am with tells from the players themselves. You're basing this entire read of cardz being innocent off the fact he got silenced, with what you say is 95% certainty. This completely contradicts "getting your reads from posts".



Asking for a priest on a near-confirmed innocent is hardly buddy-buddy, it's just obvious. It's better to have a priest on a near-confirmed innocent (as we don't have a seer report on him it's not complete innocence) than on a random. I'm not going to even attempt to fathom how you jumped to "scumscumburnitwithfiar" from that. I never interpreted that as a "scumscumburnitwithfiar". I just think that he's no where near a confirmed innocent.


Let us clear this up. Firstly, you put me on the same level as Kezzup, but you offer him a reprieve because he's been inactive and already has pressure? Are you mad? If someone is already pressured and you have legitimate reason to suspect them you do NOT give them a get-out-of-jail-free card and be nice. That's just wrong.
I offer no reprieve of Kezzup, I simply said he had pressure on him from inactivity, which takes pressure off other people such as yourself. Am I mad? No, that's a pretty childish question that has nothing to do with the game. Do we have reason to suspect Kezzup? Yes, he has been inactive and his few posts have been awful. Does that make me remove any of my suspicions from you? Nope.



If you're going to put your vote on me then use some force while you do it. If you're sure that I'm wolf then you shouldn't need to ask everyone else to consider your thoughts, unless you yourself are unsure of their validity and want someone else to come up and reinforce them? I'm not using force to get you out, I'm posting my thoughts on the game to convince players to investigate, use seer abilities possibly, and get the town out of a tunnel vision mentality of voting out new/inactive players. Again, Kezzup is probably out today, but I wanted to get my thoughts on the table.

That was actually just a legitimately bad attack. Trying to flip a wagon this far into it is usually a scumtell, so read from that what you will. Not trying to flip a wagon, trying to put out other discussion. I'm pretty sure we all know Kezzup isn't an asset at this point, and we can vote him out.

Gonna end this post with something you're overlooking majorly, and that is smart usage of abilities. Nothing stops a wolf from using a negative role on one of their own, which could make them look more innocent. Think about it, if the wolves get a silence role, they can literally make one of their own look innocent and also give them reason to not talk in the game. You've completely neglected that, and are 95% sure that because silencing seems like a wolf role that Cardz is probably innocent.

 

[Ikrit]

I think we need to clarify our current discussion with some likelihoods.

To my knowledge, I have never heard of a wolf with a silencing role on the gym. That does not mean that there has not been, nor that there is not one in this game, however in circumstances where we have no reliable odds calculating maneuver, precedence does play a part.

Next, I certainly do recall townies having the ability to silence people. In fact this is not an uncommon town role to be in a game.

Also, iirc there has been a role in the past that as part of the role, caused silence on the person who had the role. Also, even if such a role has not occurred(and thus I am not remembering correctly), we must take into account that it is possible for Absol to have crafted such a role this game.

@Napoleon: Your reasoning above is faulty as you have two possible assumptions that lead to your result, both of which I believe are not as firm and unshakable as you think. I am not sure which you prescribe to, but I will deal with both.

1) A wolf has the silence role. In this case your logic seems sound except for the WIFOM condition that makes it where a wolf may target a wolf with the silence role to make him appear innocent.

2) A townie has the silence role. In this case, a townie does not have knowledge about who is a wolf and who is not, meaning that Cardz being silenced is not indicative of anything but that townie having interest in him, or hoping that the update would give more information as to who he hit with his role.

One case you are forgetting completely is that of it being a function of Cardz role itself.

Also keep in mind the role used on cardz prevents him from voting...but not speaking. That effectively does nothing to a good player as you would vote from reasons that should resonate with everyone...if you are voting only on whim...you are scummy. So this sounds more like a tagging role, one that hopes to get more info from the update as to whom it was they targeted.

Furthermore, the condescending and demeaning language that you used towards slowkingrocks, was at best uncalled for and offensive...and at worst an attempt to sway people to your point by calling him an idiot. Neither of which will be tolerated further. Beyond it being rude, it serves to rile up the town in a low-reasoning high-passion fervor which I will in the future consider scummy, as that greatly benefits the wolves.

@Slowkingrocks: I commend you for watching for contradictions! In this case however, I believe that you and Napoleon understood the meaning of Napoleon's words in two different ways. Continue to pursue him until you are satisfied with his explanation, but be careful to resist impassioned eisegesis of his words.

 

[thunderjolt]

@Napoleon: Your reasoning above is faulty as you have two possible assumptions that lead to your result, both of which I believe are not as firm and unshakable as you think. I am not sure which you prescribe to, but I will deal with both.

1) A wolf has the silence role. In this case your logic seems sound except for the WIFOM condition that makes it where a wolf may target a wolf with the silence role to make him appear innocent.

2) A townie has the silence role. In this case, a townie does not have knowledge about who is a wolf and who is not, meaning that Cardz being silenced is not indicative of anything but that townie having interest in him, or hoping that the update would give more information as to who he hit with his role.

That's exactly what I was thinking (and about to say, but you said it much better). Although, slowking has some faulty sayings, he is somewhat right. I see Napoleon as more like a wolf and that Ikrit is right. Napoleon has proven himself to be a strong and most expert player, so the only way I can see that he would post faulty logic like this is if he is a wolf trying to sway the mind of the town. (Seems kind of like how some politicians try to sway the minds of people with faulty logic and ends up succeeding)
.
Vote:Napoleon
Also, if it turns out that you are a wolf, it would confirm(in my mind) further the fact that I think toxic is a wolf--(defending him in the beginning and whatnot.)

CAT GGC GCC CCG GCT ATG AGC

 

[Redados1]

Unvote: Kezzup

I don't want the day to end so fast and there may be other lynch options that we should at least discuss.

 

[Ikrit]

I did not say that Napoleon was a good lynch target. I simply wanted to stop us from making rash passion filled decisions.

Personally I felt that Napoleon's mistakes were oriented around him not having played on the gym before.

Honestly Thunderjolt, you need to make a real reason for voting for him...instead of trying to co-opt words from me and in the doing so twist their meanings.

 

[Absoltrainer]

Vote Count
Players Remaining: 32
Votes to Lynch: 17

Kezzup: 8 Waynegg, Toxictapian, Jellyfisher, theKing, pokemonfreak5, PokeChampofPokeBeach, Akane, Dragonite15
Dave628: 1 Benzo
Napoleon: 2 Slowkingrocks, thunderjolt

 

[DarthPika]

I did not say that Napoleon was a good lynch target. I simply wanted to stop us from making rash passion filled decisions.

Personally I felt that Napoleon's mistakes were oriented around him not having played on the gym before.

Honestly Thunderjolt, you need to make a real reason for voting for him...instead of trying to co-opt words from me and in the doing so twist their meanings.

Except, according to many others here, he has played this game many times on other forums.

 

[thunderjolt]

@Ikrit- Napoleon (from how I read his words) has played this game before (just not on the 'gym as you said). He seems to have a lot of common sense and seems to be a good player. I gave my reasons--If a wolf has a silencing role, what's stopping him from silencing a wolf, thus making the second wolf look like a townie; it's a perfect cover. As you can see, no one is opposed to cardz or voting for him (not that they should, because he couldn't defend himself).
Also, I wasn't twisting your message, I used your info to form my own opinion, much like a writer uses what he reads to make an essay (as an analogy). Furthermore, it seems to me that anyone not posting (inactive) or anyone posting something that someone else can infer as a contradiction usually gets votes, seeing as how most players can't directly tell who is a wolf or not.

Even so, It's looking like Kezzup's on the chopping block anyway, but I'll just stand by my vote for now and see what happens.

CCG GCT ATG AGC CAT GGC GCC

 

[jpulice]

1197

So I've been super busy this week. Did I miss a LEX or Cardkeeper post? I fully support the pressure on Kezzup. Non posters have zero credibility in my book. Either you engage in the discussion or don't play. I'm holding my vote for now but you (Kezzup) are high on my list. I don't think it's ok for lex or cardkeeper to come in late in the week and sneak a post in either.

Unvote: Kezzup

I don't want the day to end so fast and there may be other lynch options that we should at least discuss.

@ reados1. Who do you think we should discuss? Is there something you would like to bring to the table, or are we going to get more no comment from you. Also I'm a bit confused about your logic on why you are removing your vote. Kezzup is only at the halfway point and he hasn't received a vote in over 2 real days. Kezzup hasn't done anything for people to remove their vote but then again he hasn't baited in all of the other non voters. So why are you worried the day will end?

 

[Lucario EX]

The only female assassin that I can think of is Asajj Ventress, but I doubt it because then she would be probably be a wolf (being a Sith).

There's also Aurra Sing.

Sorry, guys, I've turned out to not have as much time for this game as I thought. I know posting at the last minute is sort of suspect, but there's a lot I need to catch up on and I wanted to get it done before I posted. Unfortunately, it looks like my analysis will have to wait. I'd like to have a more useful post, but not getting modkilled is a higher priority. Next game day, I can assure you that I'll have something to say. I'm well aware that keeping me around seems pointless right now, sorry.

 

[Napoleon]

Slowkingrocks, go back and read my post. You've clearly misinterpreted a good quarter of it, particularly "I'll go out on a limb..."scumscumburnitwithfiar"".

1) A wolf has the silence role. In this case your logic seems sound except for the WIFOM condition that makes it where a wolf may target a wolf with the silence role to make him appear innocent.

I have never played in a game which was NOT considered (semi-)******* where the informed minority can target their own players. This seems like a standard themed game to me, so far, which I doubt has that sort of autowin incorporated.

2) A townie has the silence role. In this case, a townie does not have knowledge about who is a wolf and who is not, meaning that Cardz being silenced is not indicative of anything but that townie having interest in him, or hoping that the update would give more information as to who he hit with his role.

I'll pay that one, however I fail to see how the good outweighs the bad when the silencer is pro-town:

-Heavy players are kept out of the game, as opposed to
-Any sort of information gained being ENTIRELY up for interpretation from the mod post.

Neither of which is really beneficial. A town silencer might as well be a vanilla.

One case you are forgetting completely is that of it being a function of Cardz role itself.

Yes, I recall seeing something like this before. However, reading over the mod post about this just now, I see that Cardz was "shaking in fear". That doesn't really sound like a side effect of his own role unless he's some sort of...demon spawn summoner hunter thing? He's been scared or silenced by something.

Also keep in mind the role used on cardz prevents him from voting...but not speaking. That effectively does nothing to a good player as you would vote from reasons that should resonate with everyone...if you are voting only on whim...you are scummy. So this sounds more like a tagging role, one that hopes to get more info from the update as to whom it was they targeted.

Last time we got the same "shaking in fear" or somesuch description and he was silenced completely. Today he hasn't even posted (unusual, do we need the prod police to get in here or is this an effect of the role?).

Furthermore, the condescending and demeaning language that you used towards slowkingrocks, was at best uncalled for and offensive...and at worst an attempt to sway people to your point by calling him an idiot. Neither of which will be tolerated further.

Condescending AND demeaning? Slowkingrocks didn't seem to take it like that so I'm not really concerned with changing my post style. I'll also make it very clear that nobody was called an idiot and it'd be rather helpful if you didn't invent your facts as you went along.

Beyond it being rude, it serves to rile up the town in a low-reasoning high-passion fervor which I will in the future consider scummy, as that greatly benefits the wolves..

It's called reaction fishing. If you've played as long as you have, you've seen it before, you've done it before and you've fallen for it before. It's a complete nullread and I don't see why you have a problem with it.

@DarthPika, I think that's what Ikrit's point was.
@Redados, Really? Out with them. No need to wait for others to name them.