Werewolf XVIII: Dimensional Clash: Wolves/Outlaws Win!

[TheKing]

Um...yeah, not buying it.

Vote: scorri

Reason: Faking a speech impediment

The mod not posting a public warning for you makes it seem even more fake. Any reason for faking the imped?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm assuming that you wouldn't get a public warning the first time you broke an impediment. It's probably first time private warning, second tiem public warning, third time modkill

 

[ProHawk]

It seems I need to clear up an issue that many of you seem to be having Re: JP's leaning town claim on me. One of the more effective scum-hunting techniques is developing a list of reads and adjusting it as the game progresses. The more skilled players that have success with this will place a good deal of emphasis on finding those that are town-players and not only focus on people who appear scummy. If all you search for is scum, you will eventually start to see everyone as scum.

I don't view his post as any different than someone making a list of their reads. Does it make me confirmed town because JP said it? No. Did it make any of you think of me as confirmed town? No.

I interpreted his statement V

Yeah, prohawk already leans town. Welcome!

to have the same meaning as V

Prohawk you beat me to it, I was thinking that same thing.

Meaning that I was actively-scum hunting and found evidence that points to early scum play. The chance of HD flipping scum is pretty high at this point. For those of you who liked the idea of cabd's point system, he has been tallying up quite a few points in my book and sits atop my scum list.

scorri ~ I have no patience for faking speech impediments. Either prove that you have one your next post or stop it. Faking speech impediments is scummy at best. PREVIEW EDIT. The fact that Pika did not mention your impediment in his post is evidence against you.

VOTE: SCORRI

Speech impediments... What part about faking speech impediments is most detrimental in your eyes? From my experience, I know I have seen town fake impeds, and there may even be history of scum faking impediments. To me, its a null tell either way. Personally, I see more risk in scum faking an impediment because of the attention it draws, but it could just be me. So we need to decide.

Are we going to be policy lynching all liars? Also, how do you propose that he prove the impediment is real?

I am not done catching up yet, but there s something I should get out there

the fact is I should not be targeted at night

if you still want to target me, consider it your own loss

I look at the thread and my role PM, and I see no such info
##Vote: Prohawk

and what is this plenty of info you have, care to share?

Crimson, you need to re-read Post 207 and get back to me. In case you don't clearly understand what I meant, the information I was referring to was enough to place votes for real reasons and not fake (random) ones. In post 207, I listed four reasons but they alone aren't all inclusive. To be honest, one reason is plenty to get out of a random voting situation.

 

[Crimsonsky]

I think Crimson doesn't want the Seer to be killed or something by him. What confuses me is that there is not enough info to get out of RVs. Why do you say this, Crimson? It doesn't make sense. Also, there is something I have in my mind. I think KingPiplup, Cabd, and Akane are a whole faction and they got the information of the other faction as well. I'm trusting myself on this one.

Vote: homeofmew

I did no say we should be going out of RVS just yet, I was addressing a point made by Prohawk

Is it just me, or does it seem like what Crimsonsky just did is a really bad idea? I mean, if you are on our side, wouldn't you want the wolves to target you at night if your role damages them in some way? Revealing that they shouldn't target you at night would only help them.

FoS: Crimsonsky.

it is far more likely for town to target me than scum because there should be more town than scum and by that simple logic, it is obvious I should warn the townies about it and I will obviously
FoS Vablakes, DragonClyne
for thinking I should stay hidden and try to damage others
but like I said, you are all free to target me and see what happens

---------- Post added 12/02/2012 at 12:25 PM ----------

@Prohawk
the thing is, this is a 45 player game, not some 11 player game, where getting info on just a few players is enough to get the game moving

 

[DragonClyne725]

I'm assuming that you wouldn't get a public warning the first time you broke an impediment. It's probably first time private warning, second tiem public warning, third time modkill

Possibly, but scorri has posted 3 times already in 1st person, as HD pointed out in post 210:

I figured it was probably something that didn't actually have to do with the game.

Dunno. Biggest game I've ever been in was ~21 people. I'd say around 12 would be a good guess though. *shrug*

One thing I have to say about the whole lurking thing though is that you say town has no reason to lurk, but that doesn't mean people should be posting just for the sake of posting.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

it is far more likely for town to target me than scum because there should be more town than scum and by that simple logic, it is obvious I should warn the townies about it and I will obviously

True, there are more Townies here than Wolves. But we have no idea as to how many Night-targeting Townie roles there are in this game.

But saying, "Nobody target me at Night" is practically screaming, "I have something to hide, please target me".

FoS Vablakes, DragonClyne
for thinking I should stay hidden and try to damage others

You mean, for questioning your request not to be targeted by a Seer/other Night role. Asking not to be targeted by a Seer is pretty suspicious. If you are a Townie/Hurt Those Who Target You type role, the wolves will most likely not target you now at Night making your role null.

@Prohawk
the thing is, this is a 45 player game, not some 11 player game, where getting info on just a few players is enough to get the game moving

Any information can get the ball rolling. Also, please refrain from double posting

 

[Vablakes]

What on earth? FoSing me? I was just pointing out that you made a dumb play. You don't reveal things like that, it makes wolves more likely to target you and the town more likely to lynch you. And, you really shouldn't reveal a retaliatory role to the wolves, that is helping them. You are really going to FoS me for that? For now:

Vote: Crimsonsky

FoSing me for pointing something that you did out is crazy. Revealing a retaliator role is crazy. You must be a wolf.

 

[TheKing]

What on earth? FoSing me? I was just pointing out that you made a dumb play. You don't reveal things like that, it makes wolves more likely to target you and the town more likely to lynch you. And, you really shouldn't reveal a retaliatory role to the wolves, that is helping them. You are really going to FoS me for that? For now:

Vote: Crimsonsky

FoSing me for pointing something that you did out is crazy. Revealing a retaliator role is crazy. You must be a wolf.

This post is pretty much "OMGUS" I mean, you don't even know exactly what role he has, it could be something like "if anyone targets you the town loses" All he did was FoS you, that doesn't mean anything besides that he thinks you're suspiscious. You voted for him in an angry rant which makes you even more suspiscious.

 

[Crimsonsky]

@Dragon Clyne

I said, nobody should target me at night and so it is upto you if you want to target me, that is all

and don't jump the gun, it is always better to double check and as for my role, I would rather play as a vanilla than use this role.

now for the other thing
when the ball only rolls at a small speed with less players, players who are not part of the rolling loses interest and tends to post less causing more harm in the long run, so imo, it is better to stay at RVS and let people get used to the game, than just forcing out of RVS, when people aren't posting much and only a handful of people are deciding everything
also, sorry about the double posting, I saw Prohawks post, and decided to say something about it

 

[ProHawk]

Crimson, I can see you didn't bother to comment on my list (if you even went back to read it).

So you feel like letting people throw out random votes would help them get used to the game? Is that the only reason you want to stay in a random voting rut?

Players who are not apart of the "rolling" as you call it is due to their own decision to not participate. What exactly do you mean is rolling? Could you elaborate more?

How can a handful of players decide anything? Everyone has to decide for themselves.

 

[Crimsonsky]

Crimson, I can see you didn't bother to comment on my list (if you even went back to read it).

So you feel like letting people throw out random votes would help them get used to the game? Is that the only reason you want to stay in a random voting rut?

Players who are not apart of the "rolling" as you call it is due to their own decision to not participate. What exactly do you mean is rolling? Could you elaborate more?

How can a handful of players decide anything? Everyone has to decide for themselves.

that is one of the reasons, the other is to gain info and there are times when wolves (scum as we call them) gets caught on RVS as well
as for rolling, I was addressing the same oint as the guy I quoted
also, I have to go now

 

[Kayle]

I'm going to read through the thread more carefully when I have some time. I just want to clarify a few things. That's something I do. I clarify.

Prohawk, I like your defense and your contributions and pretty much everything about your second impression. I directed some suspicion at you and you responded appropriately so gj. Your counterassault on me was a little weird though... I didn't really defend my random vote, I just wanted to explain why I swapped so quickly. I guess. I had a read to dig up and I dug a little deeper. Explanation enough right there I suppose.

Whatever, I like to explain myself, so that's what that is. More immediately, I don't have anything to say that looks like it hasn't been said already about H_D, but I agree that his initial post looks scummy (in hindsight at least). I am also suspicious of thunderjolt and of jpulice.

Vablakes' play is seeming kind of weak, but I don't really read scum on him yet. Crimsonsky strikes me as being in a similar boat: kind of poorly-made plays, but not exactly scummy. One of the biggest mistakes I see towns making is associating bad play with scum, or somehow justifying that you should lynch bad players earlygame. As ProHawk has shown, sometimes you can pick out a strong lead on someone early in.

Another CC tomorrow means this may be the last post I make this weekend, but I'm going to give the thread a good scan tomorrow night if I can. I don't promise that I'll have something to post about if I do, though.

 

[scorri]

scorri would like to explain some things as best as she can.

1) No she is not faking a posting restriction, that would be stupid.

2) In response to Sandslash7 and DragonClyne725, the best explanation that she can give is that a) the warnings given to her would be private and b) the occurrences in which she was forgetful and broke her posting restriction all happened before a mod could see it and warn her. Since the mod has since posted and she has not been modkilled, the best guess that scorri has is that she is either being given one private warning for what happened since they all happened before a mod saw them or that the one mod has not yet had a chance to talk to the other mod about what has happened and therefore it has not yet been determined what should happen to scorri.

---------- Post added 12/01/2012 at 11:19 PM ----------

In addition, scorri would like to do the following.

Unvote
Vote: Sandslash7

Voting a person for "faking" a posting restriction appears to be an attempt at getting an easy bandwagon going to scorri since it would be easy to push scorri for "lying". This appears to scorri as if Sandslash7 is voting for her for an easy reason and not a valid one.

 

[Luster Purge]

Alright, I'm finally here. With the huge amount of posts, I tried to rush through everything so I may have missed a few points here and there, but anyhow, I'll try to keep up from now on.

HumanDestroyer doesn't seem scummy at all. He wrote a giant post on some pretty decent advice. I imagine there are a lot of new players here, and when the game just starts, there's very little to discuss, so it makes perfect sense to me that HumanDestroyer dedicated his first relevant post to writing general stuff that everyone should know about. I'm actually more suspicious of ProHawk for considering it scummy, since I am unable to think of anything less scummy that anyone could have posted at the start of the game where there is no information.

##Vote: ProHawk

btw, I see nothing strange with scorri's speech impediment. If you ask me, I think she's finally gone senile.

 

[vegitalian]

So your excuse is ok and everyone else's is bad?? Can you understand my skepticism here? I'm trying to make sure everyone understands that not posting often is generally a sub-optimal play. This is something that I don't think we can afford from townies.


I don't think this is a problem, especially the first day of the first game-day. I think that even mid-high level players could benefit from some of the things I've pointed out. I'm looking forward to moving onto other discussion as much as the next guy, but this is the info we have (number of players, rules specifics ect.) so we might as well say what we can about it in the very beginning.

Can you direct me to the thread where that post would have made sense? Just covering my bases here.

I agree with a lot of peoples' suspicions thus far (but am not willing to hop on a bandwagon until I see something more concrete), and would like to point out that although I'm new here, everyone posting a lot doesn't only benefit townies. It benefits the wolves, which makes this post a little strange...

RoS: Diaz

 

[Kayle]

Unvote: ProHawk

meant to do this before and only just realized I hadn't, sorry.

 

[pokemonfreak5]

Hi all. Checking in. Going to make a proper post in a few hours. Can I get a bump in the meantime.

Just going to say that tables' post before the freeze very much stuck out to me too. Going to go back and have another look then post me thoughts and a potential vote.

 

[Tables]

@Tables, I did see your posts and Jewel's posts, but you do realize that it was G Landers that was role-fishing right? Take a look at this post. Vablakes's question was clearly a sincere new player question, and I applaud his gusto to come right out and try to make discussion.

I see that now, and, maybe. I don't think it's a very strong read on it.

Tables said:

[stuff]

The bolding is mine, which is where I would like clarification.

The whole paragraph (except the underlined part) does not sit right with me. It may simply be a "wording" issue as to how my mind perceives it and translate's it's meaning. The bolded part stuck out, I get the vibe that mentioning that part (bolded) is already like he is saying that he know's the pre-planned. Then again, it could be general statement of what is known to be common/normal for WW games. But not each game is the same, nor are the rules the same every time as well. After reading that part, my mind was "And you know there is pre-game planning?"- so, I would like clarification is all.

The first part is sort of: "I know nothing, except what is of my own"- which is a simple starting point of showing that in the start, I know my info, yet I know nothing. Common for people to say when other little info is known or shared.
Then, comparing what he knows to the rest of the town- how can you compare so quickly at the start of the game? Seems that you know something, yet you want to say that the town knows only so much only to what can be compared to when nothing is know except for roles have been sent out and begin.
Of course the mafia knows information. Plain and simple statement to the obvious in the begining of the game for those who know the game mechanics as simple rules and the sort.
Then the bolded part- it stuck out and that struck me odd is all- I already spoke on that, so- next part of the paragraph:
You say we do not have much to do. There is plenty to do. If there is not much to do so early, why state that? Seems like you know enough to say something like that. Like, you know who is town and who is not, so why start off with anything larger to do then RVS? It just seems odd to say there is not much to do, yet, it just comes off that you do not need to work so hard in finding scum.
I don't mind pushing to get more serious postings, so this posting of yours is in need of clarification please so that I can have a better understanding behind why this post sticks out so odd to me.

The underlined part- I agree with. That is the only part of the paragraph that did not sit funny with me.

This is just my mind's way of looking at this posting. I figure it is best to get clarification is all and to see if my mind is just looking at this posting in the incorrect manner by taking the post as flip-floppy in parts or just simple conversation trying to point in a good direction.

Tables, please clarify.

Nothing else sticks out at this time, besides the replacements and some postings to look through, all I have at this time.

I have never played a mafia game where the mafia didn't get to talk pre-game. If it's not the standard here, I can see why that would look suspicious, but the entire point of mafia is that they're a team, and need to talk, share plans, discuss and work out what to do. If they can't talk pre-game, they start on the back foot.

I have no idea where I ever compared what I know to what he knows. I made a slight comment about some town possibly knowing more, e.g. Masons, but that's about it. Stop rolefishing.

'Do' was a typo. I have to assume I meant 'use', as it's the only thing that makes sense in the sentence. We don't have much to use, except RVS style posting. I think we've happily moved on from that now.

Tables ~ You mention ~11-12 as the number where "we see two teams." Explain. Why does one see "two teams" at those numbers? Are you setting up the town to split-vote two different factions by planting the idea early?

...What? No, I was just saying, from experience as a mod, with this many players I would usually strongly consider having two mafia teams. I'll have to double check what I said earlier (if I can be bothered) but what I meant was, a single mafia is likely about 11-12 people, but we might have more mafia than that spread over two teams.

@SS7 You know very well set-up spec is something we all think about and don't really talk about it. It's like the relative we all have (oh I have much better analogy but rated: G it is). The better question here I think is:
Tables, please explain your previous WW/mafia experience.
Also I agree with your thoughts on the imped.

I've moderated about a dozen games, helped mod about the same amount, played about 50-60 or so. Most have been role madness type games, but a number have been quite serious ones. Please explain to me why this is relevant?

I haven't read page 10 or onwards yet.

 

[Sheepbro]

Hey guys!
This is my first werewolf game and I'm kind of scared I should have played smaller games first, but hey.

First of all, he says not to post gigantic posts in a gigantic post.

When he says not to self-hammer, he says it is against your win condition, not our win condition.

Also, saying not to bother with post-by-post analysis or meta reads seems scummy to me.


Vote: Human Destroyer

You're really looking for reasons as far as I can see. The first one I noticed, but it's ironic, not suspicious.

The second one is silly, he was posting as if he were directing it to a noob player. You shouldn't say that because it's against your win condition.

I don't know why he told us not to do post-by-post analysis, but meh, not sure if that's worth starting a vote over. I find you way more scummy than HD.

VOTE: StrongRhino

 

[Human Destroyer]

Trying to take back your scummy mistake, OK, keep going...


Changing your story, alright...

I never "changed" my story.

I'll give ya this one, you didn't seem cocky to me whatsoever.


Yes, please do work on that, because as the game spreads out, the more posts and discussion there is (for the most part), and if you don't quote something that's 2 or 3 pages back, it's quite confusing to tell what you mean.


Not the best idea in the world? Yeah, no, probably not.


This one is a bit.... confusing. It shows that we have good reasons for voting him, but he wants to make it seem like his mistake was sincere.

...because it was? :/

Now, putting myself in his shoes, if the mistake was sincere, then this situation would really suck, as he would be getting voted for an honest mistake.

But the more I think about that statement, the more it seems like WIFOM. He could be trying to get us to think that, so that we would take a guilt trip and unvote him. But he could also be trying to prove that it was honest.

In all honesty, I never even thought of WIFOM. I probably should have thought it could've been interpreted that way, but I didn't.

All in all, my vote stands.

First of all, he says not to post gigantic posts in a gigantic post.

I've seen (and unfortunately made) bigger posts.

When he says not to self-hammer, he says it is against your win condition, not our win condition.

Technically, it's against EVERYONE'S win condition, so this is more irrelevant than you think.

Also, saying not to bother with post-by-post analysis or meta reads seems scummy to me.

Post-by-post analysis means to just post like 1500 posts of another person and then show how they fit your conclusion. Since you go in there knowing your conclusion, you'll probably just stretch the quotes without knowing it and waste time.

Vote: Human Destroyer

Vote: Human Destroyer
Reason: Many people have already given well thought out reasons that make a lot of sense to me, wolves want to make themselves seem friendly, posting anything that will convince others that they aren't wolves.

Bandwagon.

I admit, the first one was more of an annoyance.
The second one, however, seems to separate him from the town.

How so? I was addressing everyone in the 2nd person anyway, so this is irrelevant.

The third is basically saying not to try to find wolves by using these methods, therefore reducing the chances of finding a wolf.

I just said don't use those methods in particular. There are other, better methods out there for finding scum.

As for bandwagoning, we need 23 people to vote for someone. Nothing is going to get done if we all vote for different people.

Can you explain this comment you made? Are you saying that we shouldn't be looking back through posts in order to establish reads? Maybe I'm just misinterpreting what you said.

You are. A post-by-post analysis, as I explained earlier in this post, is just when you quote a bunch of posts someone said and show how they fit your conclusion. You should absolutely be looking back on posts to establish reads, it would make no sense NOT to do that.

Meaning that I was actively-scum hunting and found evidence that points to early scum play. The chance of HD flipping scum is pretty high at this point. For those of you who liked the idea of cabd's point system, he has been tallying up quite a few points in my book and sits atop my scum list.

FoS: ProHawk. There is no "high chance" of me flipping scum from the words of a whopping 1-3 posts.

Alright, I'm finally here. With the huge amount of posts, I tried to rush through everything so I may have missed a few points here and there, but anyhow, I'll try to keep up from now on.

HumanDestroyer doesn't seem scummy at all. He wrote a giant post on some pretty decent advice. I imagine there are a lot of new players here, and when the game just starts, there's very little to discuss, so it makes perfect sense to me that HumanDestroyer dedicated his first relevant post to writing general stuff that everyone should know about. I'm actually more suspicious of ProHawk for considering it scummy, since I am unable to think of anything less scummy that anyone could have posted at the start of the game where there is no information.

Ah, but this is exactly ProHawk's case! You see, he thinks I was trying to look pro-town so posts like these would happen and I wouldn't be suspected.

Oh, by the way guys, you're all overanalyzing my first post. The vote was a mistake (well, it was in hindsight anyway) and I felt new players could really use the advice. Do you really think that is such a scummy thing?

 

[Pikamaster]

Ok, a few things.

Scorri and Crimsonsky, please do not double post again.

Scorri, you must specifically unvote for whoever you had voted before, or else future votes from you will not count.

As a general note and reminder to everyone.

1. All warnings (excluding double post, editing, stuff like that) are private.

2. Since there seems to be some confusion about this, Modkills will be based off of warning number, not infraction number. I am not confirming or denying what Scorri says, but this aspect of the rules should be clear for everyone.

 

[Sheepbro]

I forgot to point out in my previous post that I think it's silly that people dislike bandwagoning so much. We need 23 posts to lynch someone, the lynched has to make a ton of mistakes to give 23 people a unique reason to vote for him/her.

Another thing I want to point out is that if you click on the number next to the thread when you're in the Random Topic Centre, you get to see how much everyone has posted. If you then click on their number of posts, you can see everything they have posted.
I'm not just saying this because it's incredibly useful, but also because I read through all of pokemonplayer101's posts and honestly, he says very little relevant things.
Care to explain why all your posts are pretty much baked air, pokemonplayer101?