What do you think will be played at Worlds?
- Thread starter dragonwarrior
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dragonwarrior
New Member
I don't get how luxape doesn't beat Palkia. Palkia is weak to Lux who can OHKO it, and Dialga who also can be OHKOed by Ape or can be set up for a OHKO. Blow for blow Luxape should beat Palkia.
Professor Elm
Active Member
You seriously underestimate power lock then.
From turn 1, Palkias goal is to lock all powers down via Mesprit or Sprays. Palkia uses Azelf (MT) downer material to severely slow down opposing SP decks, making their energy gains obsolete. THEN, if a Luxray does come out and OHKO ur Palkia, u respond with the Toxicroak G Promo OHKO. Then u can get back to constant spread with Palkia again, while sniping any other threats that they try to build up.
Palkia has a pretty serious advantage over luxape. Not to say Luxape is an auto-win either though, it's just an easier matchup.
PokePockets
New Member
Not only that the deck could play Dialga, which could lock Trainers, which isn't as bad as Powers, but it still is a pain.
As far as the Blow for Blow comment. Palkia (as stated in numerous posts before) plays Azelf MT making you take a whole other turn before finally being able to attack.
Ape OHKO's Dialga
Palkia OHKO's Ape
Lux OHKO's Palkia
Toxicroak G OHKO's Luxray (and I pray LuxApe players aren't playing 1 Sunyshore just for it to be situational, you could make better use of that slot =/)
So sure each deck has a counter for each Pokemon, but Palkia has the Locking capabilities, which just makes it a bit better than LuxApe
As far as the Blow for Blow comment. Palkia (as stated in numerous posts before) plays Azelf MT making you take a whole other turn before finally being able to attack.
Ape OHKO's Dialga
Palkia OHKO's Ape
Lux OHKO's Palkia
Toxicroak G OHKO's Luxray (and I pray LuxApe players aren't playing 1 Sunyshore just for it to be situational, you could make better use of that slot =/)
So sure each deck has a counter for each Pokemon, but Palkia has the Locking capabilities, which just makes it a bit better than LuxApe
TheDarkTwins
Active Member
Oh, I am not saying it is not close, I just think that all in all a Luxape player is going to win a majority of the time. I can't for the life of me seeing that Palkia has the advantage. I just see that it would give the deck serious issues. I can see it doing well versus most of the format but I just see Luxape giving Palkia issues. There isn't a lot of room in Palkia. I think that Dialga might be a poor choice for the deck, but that might just be me. I think that there are better cards.
I think it is a bit more complicated then that. I find it hard to believe that a well placed Spray wouldn't give the deck issues. Not to mention that I feel that a 1-1 Manectric in any deck would give Palkia so many issues it isn't funny. I am just thinking that they are both good but I am not sure if I can see Palkia/Luxray consistently beating Luxray/Infernape.
Power lock is good, but I feel that against certian decks you're going to have more troubles. Plus I think your overcompesating for what the Matchup should be like. The fact is that against Luxray/Infernape you have 3 spots on your bench that are taken up by either Azelf/Mesprit/Uxie. Then you have the issue of needing to also have Palkia up. I just think it is a lot of bench space. I think that it is better than Palkia/Dialga, but I am not sure how sold I am on it as far as having a favorable matchup against Luxape.
I think it is close, but I feel it is still in Luxape's favor. However, both of these decks are options. I am just wondering if the matchups are even against other decks. I am not sure on that. However it is a very interesting discussion and I think both will do well at Worlds.
Drew
Cherry Picker
New Member
Mespirt locks up Ape and the ray,and if your using your Ray bring up your oppentents claydol (Most SP decks play 1-1 Claydol that i see) and just snipe with Palkia and you should be fine.
Pinsir52
New Member
It's funny...this was a "What will be played at Worlds" thread, and now it's just a debate between LuxApe VS Palkia 
Anyway, it's not by ANY MEANS an auto-loss on either side (i hate the term "auto-loss"). Lux OHKOs Dialga, who can OHKO ape, who can OHKO dialga (if the palkia player even runs it)...man, it'll go either way.
Back to the main point of the thread...
Gengar won't see that much play, but is still a very constant deck, and has potential.
Beedrill...fast and all...but Ape's probably gonna own it
Champ...Nah!
Anyway, it's not by ANY MEANS an auto-loss on either side (i hate the term "auto-loss"). Lux OHKOs Dialga, who can OHKO ape, who can OHKO dialga (if the palkia player even runs it)...man, it'll go either way.
Back to the main point of the thread...
Gengar won't see that much play, but is still a very constant deck, and has potential.
Beedrill...fast and all...but Ape's probably gonna own it
Champ...Nah!
Professor Elm
Active Member
TheDarkTwins: It's understandable to be skeptical, but I just was at league yesterday and was playing against Luxape, and dominated both games I played against him. He's a good player, a good list, and decent draws, but he just couldn't overcome my constant power lock and Azelf really hurt him too. Now, my list focuses solely on Power lock and Palkia, I don't play Dialga or Luxray or anything. Under a power lock and Azelf lock it's just too hard for Luxape to setup multiple threats. And when they do setup a threat, Croak G usually comes back for the KO. And, I've tested against Luxape before and never lost. Again, Palkia is an extremely difficult deck to play though, so experience contributes largely to the success of the deck.
I have been playing this deck ever since PT came out, and I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I do understand the deck very well, and for that reason Luxape is an easy match for me. Now, if u are playing someone who isn't on top of their game and very experienced then you could very well find the matchup to be fairly even. I'm just speaking from my own experiences, if that even means anything.
EDIT: Back on topic now, Gengar is way too easy play around now. It may do well in juniors and seniors because it does take some skill to play around regardless of what others might say, but a Master who has qualified for worlds should be able to handle Gengar with somewhat ease, as long as they don't hit every Fainting Spell flip. Beedrill will see play as it is fast, consistent, hits hard, and recovers easily. Champ may see play also just because SP decks are so popular. I don't think it will do that well but it's still a slight contender. The right Kingdra build can surprise some people and do pretty well in the right hands. Luxape is so over hyped, but it's no doubt a good deck that will see pretty good play. Plakia lock will see some play, and honestly doesn't have any bad matchups, but it takes a lot of practice and skill to be effective, SO the success and popularity of it won't really be known until that day. Palkia varients will be popular though, Palkia/Dialga, Palkia/Luxray, Palkia/Dialga/Luxray, they will all be played and in full force, expect quite a few in the top 32. Hmmm, anything I missed? Oh, Plox! Plox is good, but struggles against Palkia Lock like most decks. Most people are fed up with Plox, but I believe it's the best setup deck out there right now, but we got so much of it last format that I think many people are too scared to play it now. Rogue decks prolly won't be that popular, but random SP decks and Shuppet/Starmie donk may be seen here and there.
I have been playing this deck ever since PT came out, and I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I do understand the deck very well, and for that reason Luxape is an easy match for me. Now, if u are playing someone who isn't on top of their game and very experienced then you could very well find the matchup to be fairly even. I'm just speaking from my own experiences, if that even means anything.
EDIT: Back on topic now, Gengar is way too easy play around now. It may do well in juniors and seniors because it does take some skill to play around regardless of what others might say, but a Master who has qualified for worlds should be able to handle Gengar with somewhat ease, as long as they don't hit every Fainting Spell flip. Beedrill will see play as it is fast, consistent, hits hard, and recovers easily. Champ may see play also just because SP decks are so popular. I don't think it will do that well but it's still a slight contender. The right Kingdra build can surprise some people and do pretty well in the right hands. Luxape is so over hyped, but it's no doubt a good deck that will see pretty good play. Plakia lock will see some play, and honestly doesn't have any bad matchups, but it takes a lot of practice and skill to be effective, SO the success and popularity of it won't really be known until that day. Palkia varients will be popular though, Palkia/Dialga, Palkia/Luxray, Palkia/Dialga/Luxray, they will all be played and in full force, expect quite a few in the top 32. Hmmm, anything I missed? Oh, Plox! Plox is good, but struggles against Palkia Lock like most decks. Most people are fed up with Plox, but I believe it's the best setup deck out there right now, but we got so much of it last format that I think many people are too scared to play it now. Rogue decks prolly won't be that popular, but random SP decks and Shuppet/Starmie donk may be seen here and there.
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t-tar shockwave
New Member
I agree Bee's has a tough match up against LuxApe even with it's tremendous speed. The fire weakness will be too over whelming. I really can't see it winning against Mespirt/power spray lock or even that case Dialga trainer lock. I don't think it'll make a big showing or even worth it to play at Worlds.
Even though Palkia has a good match up LuxApe, I feel that LuxApe has good match ups against all decks while Palkia struggles against some.
I feel Flygon is WAY to inconsistent that it's to risky.
That's my two cents
Even though Palkia has a good match up LuxApe, I feel that LuxApe has good match ups against all decks while Palkia struggles against some.
I feel Flygon is WAY to inconsistent that it's to risky.
That's my two cents
shortshortsrule
New Member
i think that luxape is going to see alot of play at the grinder and in worlds because of the speed the deck has against any deck and the good match ups against most
palkia power lock is definately a solid choice and alot will be ran around the masters devision but in seniors and juniors i dont think that their playing level is up to the power lock deck but definately going to be played
flygon if someone could find a more consistent list definately going to have alot of play in it but way to hard to figure out that consistent list so probaly not much play
mother gengar might see quite a bit of play in seniors and juniors but masters know too many ways around the fainting spells and then the unown g makes it not going to be seen in m asters very much
plox i dont think is going to have play because everyone is sick of it after last season and it cant really compete with the speed of the sp
dialga is going to be teched into MANY sp decks for worlds for the t2 defean lock and problay will see play as a tech
kingdra i dont think will be played much because of the bad luxray matchup but some risk taking lucky players will be playing it and will do good with it if they can get the luck they need
champ i think will take juniors and do decent in seniors because of the donk capability and how well it does against sp decks but i think that champs late game cant compete against the other decks in the format just too chancy with the hurricane punches
random red face paint decks i think will be played but there are not very many red face paint decks that can counter everything this format which makes it hard to decide on a red face paint so red face paint not very popular
g-champ definately is a solid play but i think the deck lacks the consistency to win but definately with the right player can do good
and bees i think wont do good because of the ape match up and the power lock match up sorta really hurts the deck but it is a really fast deck and could do great in the grinder but worlds i wouldn't play it
well thats my opinion
palkia power lock is definately a solid choice and alot will be ran around the masters devision but in seniors and juniors i dont think that their playing level is up to the power lock deck but definately going to be played
flygon if someone could find a more consistent list definately going to have alot of play in it but way to hard to figure out that consistent list so probaly not much play
mother gengar might see quite a bit of play in seniors and juniors but masters know too many ways around the fainting spells and then the unown g makes it not going to be seen in m asters very much
plox i dont think is going to have play because everyone is sick of it after last season and it cant really compete with the speed of the sp
dialga is going to be teched into MANY sp decks for worlds for the t2 defean lock and problay will see play as a tech
kingdra i dont think will be played much because of the bad luxray matchup but some risk taking lucky players will be playing it and will do good with it if they can get the luck they need
champ i think will take juniors and do decent in seniors because of the donk capability and how well it does against sp decks but i think that champs late game cant compete against the other decks in the format just too chancy with the hurricane punches
random red face paint decks i think will be played but there are not very many red face paint decks that can counter everything this format which makes it hard to decide on a red face paint so red face paint not very popular
g-champ definately is a solid play but i think the deck lacks the consistency to win but definately with the right player can do good
and bees i think wont do good because of the ape match up and the power lock match up sorta really hurts the deck but it is a really fast deck and could do great in the grinder but worlds i wouldn't play it
well thats my opinion
prodigal_fanboy
New Member
Beedrill is a safe play for a winning record, but not necessarily for winning the whole thing.
I completely disagree. Beedrill is far from a safe play.
prodigal_fanboy
New Member
If the LCQ Grinder is filled with Machamp and Luxape, Beedrill is a safe play.
dragonwarrior
New Member
I really don't think Machamp will be played even though it soul reason to live is to beat SP decks. Unfortunately the moment an Unown G is out, yes I'll admit it'll slow down SP decks, but it also slows down Champ decks and I think a lot of players are smarter than to bank on Hurricane Punch.
Volt
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=
Why does the Senior Division represent the "Donk and no skill to play around Gengar" Division? After all, they are a LOT of smart Seniors out there, and of course at worlds as well. I think that most of you are wrong to say "Gengar, Beedrill, Machamp - that's the play for Seniors!!". I think we'll see Luxape, Legos, etc. nearly as much as in Masters.
shortshortsrule
New Member
can i ask wat is legos?
I think Luxape will take it, they need to run Uxie X to ko the tox promo though. Palocks is good and wrecks a decent amount of stuff but Luxape sets up quicker and hits harder. With well placed Power Spray and well time Bright Look Luxape kills it. Sunnyshore's a bad tech stadiums are so clunky in sp decks. I don't expect a lot of Gengar if you made it all the way to worlds will you really play a deck that uses such crucial coin flips? Beedrill auto loses to Palkia and has a tough time against luxrape. Gallade 4 will be a surprise contender. SP will win worlds that much is obvious.
toxicroak 96
New Member
Luxape, Palkia/Dialga, and Palkia lock will be played.
I think Palkia lock needs a perfect game to beat Luxape, meaning if that Toxicroak is prized it will change the matchup.
I think Palkia lock needs a perfect game to beat Luxape, meaning if that Toxicroak is prized it will change the matchup.
Professor Elm
Active Member
U don't know Palkia Lock very well then. Well, actually most Palkia lock builds are kinda inconsistent and focus too much on other stuff like Honchkrow and other techs, so u could be right against the standard build.
Oh and even if Croak is prized u have Azelf (LA).