Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Why Catcher Is Not Bad For The Game

Lunar Wing said:
Why use Pokemon when there's Pokemon Reversal? Might as well hope to get the heads on the coin flip and choose who you want to be able to attack? [/sarcasm]
So basically everything is bad for the game, huh? Just sounds like an ignorant person complaining. With your reasoning that "Catcher is bad for the game because of how much control it offers" that would also apply with Pokemon Reversal. Because of the flips that come from Pokemon Reversal it lead to better players losing to those that they shouldn't just because their opponent was able to control the board more than them whereas Pokemon Catcher offers equality for both players. And how exactly does Vileplume offer the player running it a lot of control in the game? Both players aren't allowed to use trainer cards and it's not like the opponent can't choose to run fewer Trainers than usual or thicker evolutionary lines. Deckbuilding is just part of the game of Pokemon and being able to play against trainer lock while also being speedy is one part of it. If your deck can't play against most of these decks then sorry.

Based on your arguments you seem to think that only your opponent will be the one playing Pokemon Catcher leaving you with a big disadvantage. And what exactly is there to move Gothitelle out of the active spot? Muk? Bellsprout? Sure they move her out of the active spot but it's an attack meaning that they have the chance to get it back active and knock out whatever dragged it up. And what stops you from pulling the same stunt against Vileplume? It's not like we have Warp Energy anymore and they can't use trainers either like Switch so they would need a Double Colorless Energy to retreat or play Dodrio. But do you honestly see that many people running DCE with Vileplume in the deck or even Dodrio in general?

tl;dr: Just shut up and stop complaining about Pokemon Catcher because we already have Pokemon Reversal which can be arguably just as bad for the game if not worse.
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Try to be a little less rude. There is no need to tell someone to shut up. There are a ton of pokemon to force Gothitelle from the active spot. Think there are 3 in the new set.

The thing with Circulator is that people can still get rid of babies, which is most people gripe right now. Reversal is only bad to the player not running it but it is still onesided to the player getting the effect. If you chose to play it, fine, if not, then it's your fault. Im not saying its bad for the game just to be saying it. I'm saying it's bad because it gives too much control to fast decks and puts a huge limit on what can be played in this format right now.

The reason why Vileplume is bad is because no matter where it is on the field, its ability always works. Tbh, not many decks can fight against a vileplume deck. Items are a big part of the game and Vileplume decks dont need them to work after it gets going.

---------- Post added 08/22/2011 at 09:50 PM ----------
PkB_ said:
So let me guess, any card ever printed that let you take advantage in a game was bad?
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You care to tell me when I said that?
 
Your saying that Pokemon catcher is bad for the game. Vileplume is bad for the game. Basically you listed alot of cards taht let you take advantage of your opponets setup ingame and called them bad.
 
Sawsbuck and Ferrothorn allow the opponent to choose meaning that Gothitelle will come right back up without any troubles. Cinccino is the only new Pokemon to be able to drag things around but if it drags Gothietelle from the active it just has to come back up and attack with 3 Psychic Energy (which it should have regardless) for 90 damage and the OHKO.
Sure, Pokemon Circulator can move sleeping babies out of the active spot but so can Pokemon Reversal. Just hope for heads on the flip, right? You point out that it's fine to play Pokemon Reversal and yet you also say that it's "your fault" if you don't meaning that Pokemon Reversal has become a basic necessity or otherwise one is already at a disadvantage from the very beginning of the game. Pokemon Reversal also gives fast decks an advantage when they flip all heads. And when those slower decks happen to not flip all heads on their Pokemon Reversals agaisnt those faster decks they tend to lose. A reason that those faster decks like Donphan or Yanmega are good early in the game is because of the good energy:damage ratio but fizzle out if the game goes for too long because they lack the ability to dish out some of those higher numbers. And it's not like Pokemon Catcher is limiting what can be played in the format, it just means to play smarter like we all should have when the GS-ON format began due to Pokemon Reversal instead of just HOPING that the opponent flips a tails. Gusting cards just mean that you can't lay down a low HP basic down later on in the game unless you have the resources or reasons to do so because that becomes an easy prize; for ANY deck.
If "not many decks can fight against a vileplume deck" then why aren't they more popular? Why is it that it was only seen in the masters division for the finals? We had Gengar/Vileplume last format and we dealed with it. They even had Spiritomb [AR] that only helped to prevent trainer use even more. And of course there was Gastly who also locked Trainers. And yet, we survived. There was even Warp Energy in the format then to make it much more difficult to drag up Vileplume and then proceed to knock it out and be relieved of trainer lock.

"Catcher is bad for the game because of how much control it offers."
"Vileplume is bad for the game because of how much control is offers to the player running it."
Two quotes from post 78 from you stating that a card that let's you take advantage of the game state is bad. Another reason for Vileplume not being bad for the game is because it's a high risk, high reward card. You must play a thick line of it to ensure it will see play in some portion of the game. A 40 HP basic is also a weak spot of Vileplume.
 
PkB_ said:
Your saying that Pokemon catcher is bad for the game. Vileplume is bad for the game. Basically you listed alot of cards taht let you take advantage of your opponets setup ingame and called them bad.
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I only listed 2 cards which a lot pf people would say the game is better without.

---------- Post added 08/22/2011 at 10:52 PM ----------
Lunar Wing said:
Sawsbuck and Ferrothorn allow the opponent to choose meaning that Gothitelle will come right back up without any troubles. Cinccino is the only new Pokemon to be able to drag things around but if it drags Gothietelle from the active it just has to come back up and attack with 3 Psychic Energy (which it should have regardless) for 90 damage and the OHKO.
Sure, Pokemon Circulator can move sleeping babies out of the active spot but so can Pokemon Reversal. Just hope for heads on the flip, right? You point out that it's fine to play Pokemon Reversal and yet you also say that it's "your fault" if you don't meaning that Pokemon Reversal has become a basic necessity or otherwise one is already at a disadvantage from the very beginning of the game. Pokemon Reversal also gives fast decks an advantage when they flip all heads. And when those slower decks happen to not flip all heads on their Pokemon Reversals agaisnt those faster decks they tend to lose. A reason that those faster decks like Donphan or Yanmega are good early in the game is because of the good energy:damage ratio but fizzle out if the game goes for too long because they lack the ability to dish out some of those higher numbers. And it's not like Pokemon Catcher is limiting what can be played in the format, it just means to play smarter like we all should have when the GS-ON format began due to Pokemon Reversal instead of just HOPING that the opponent flips a tails. Gusting cards just mean that you can't lay down a low HP basic down later on in the game unless you have the resources or reasons to do so because that becomes an easy prize; for ANY deck.
If "not many decks can fight against a vileplume deck" then why aren't they more popular? Why is it that it was only seen in the masters division for the finals? We had Gengar/Vileplume last format and we dealed with it. They even had Spiritomb [AR] that only helped to prevent trainer use even more. And of course there was Gastly who also locked Trainers. And yet, we survived. There was even Warp Energy in the format then to make it much more difficult to drag up Vileplume and then proceed to knock it out and be relieved of trainer lock.

"Catcher is bad for the game because of how much control it offers."
"Vileplume is bad for the game because of how much control is offers to the player running it."
Two quotes from post 78 from you stating that a card that let's you take advantage of the game state is bad. Another reason for Vileplume not being bad for the game is because it's a high risk, high reward card. You must play a thick line of it to ensure it will see play in some portion of the game. A 40 HP basic is also a weak spot of Vileplume.
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The thing is with how powerful pokemon are now and going first and a bad rare candy means catcher is overpowered. Any ZPS deck that goes first and gets setup will almost auto win any game they play when downing them with catcher. Same with Donphan.

The thing about reversal is not everyone played it because of the coin flip. Not many people wanted to risk it. Reversal was on the side of those who played it and those who did not so those who did not can't complain when they lose to the person who did. Just like some fire decks chose to play Ninetails or not. The person who did not play it can't complain when their opponents sets everything up faster. Reversal does not always work and I went 0-7 with it one game. The draw back to it is playing a card with no effect.

With Catcher, there is no drawback to it. Its a perfect card that rewards fast deck and then its in the same format as Junk Arm AND Reversal. I'm saying its bad for the game because every other card that had the chance to be good can't be played now because if you want to run a stage 2 bench sitter, you'll need to run heavy lines to do so.

On Vileplume, the reason its broken is because it's ability can be used if its active OR benched. The player using plume does not need items other then rare candy to get it out. The reason plume does not see much play is because there is nothing that can pair well with the and Beartic does the job pretty well now.
 
Lunar Wing said:
>.< And what's the difference between your opponent flipping all heads with Pokemon Reversal? To me it just seems like a bunch of babies here not wanting Pokemon Catcher in the game because the only reason they were winning games was because they were able to flip a few more heads on Pokemon Reversal than their opponent could. Just stop whining and get on with it. Catcher is something that every deck is able to use and is even able to be countered with trainer lock from Vileplume or Gothitelle. Catcher is a necessary evil because we have Pokemon Reversal. The game was pretty annoying with most games being determined from baby flips and Reversal flips but with Pokemon Catcher the game DOES become more skill reliant because it's not just playing Pokemon Reversal and HOPING to get heads.
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The problem with catcher over reversal is that, while I agree that less flipping is nice, when you played reversals you had to save them for key kills etc but with catcher you can just spam them.

I just hate cards that make opening hands more important. Opening hands and coin flips. And dont let anyone kid you, you can make your decks more consistant but youll have the occasional bad starts. And in this case catcher absolutly kills you, no chance of comeback. Catcher is a card that gives the player thats ahead an advantage thats is bigger BECAUSE hes ahead. Catcher increases the gap, turns a small advantage (like going first e.g.) into a big one.

So it increases luck (opening hands/early draw come down to luck a lot) and opening hand dependency.
Just compare it to delta, most decks could use setup attacks for like 3 turns so even if you had a bad hand you had some "low pressure" time to get back into it. With catcher once your down its only going to go downgill from there.

It also destroys a lot of cool cards, teching is kinda dead and some pokemon will never get charged because theyll die before. A bench shouldnt be unattackable but its way to easy to attack now, the concept of a bench is kinda dead.

Only hope is that well get some cards back that plume decks desperatly need, some supporter discard cards and warp nrg :/

Also what happens to concepts like tanking? Bench sitters that are not ABLE to fight on their own? mirrors also become completly stupid. Just look at the stage 1 eel thing or seperior. You cant run more then like a 2-1-2 serperior anywhere because it cant fight. So you need to play 2 basics, hope that none is priced, and even then it can still be catchered and ohkoed.


Reversal was stupid but at least there was some risk with recycling it and you had to save them for key kills, cactcher is just "i completly ignore what youre doing and just kill some basics"
 
Yoshi- said:
The problem with catcher over reversal is that, while I agree that less flipping is nice, when you played reversals you had to save them for key kills etc but with catcher you can just spam them.

I just hate cards that make opening hands more important. Opening hands and coin flips. And dont let anyone kid you, you can make your decks more consistant but youll have the occasional bad starts. And in this case catcher absolutly kills you, no chance of comeback. Catcher is a card that gives the player thats ahead an advantage thats is bigger BECAUSE hes ahead. Catcher increases the gap, turns a small advantage (like going first e.g.) into a big one.

So it increases luck (opening hands/early draw come down to luck a lot) and opening hand dependency.
Just compare it to delta, most decks could use setup attacks for like 3 turns so even if you had a bad hand you had some "low pressure" time to get back into it. With catcher once your down its only going to go downgill from there.

It also destroys a lot of cool cards, teching is kinda dead and some pokemon will never get charged because theyll die before. A bench shouldnt be unattackable but its way to easy to attack now, the concept of a bench is kinda dead.

Only hope is that well get some cards back that plume decks desperatly need, some supporter discard cards and warp nrg :/

Also what happens to concepts like tanking? Bench sitters that are not ABLE to fight on their own? mirrors also become completly stupid. Just look at the stage 1 eel thing or seperior. You cant run more then like a 2-1-2 serperior anywhere because it cant fight. So you need to play 2 basics, hope that none is priced, and even then it can still be catchered and ohkoed.


Reversal was stupid but at least there was some risk with recycling it and you had to save them for key kills, cactcher is just "i completly ignore what youre doing and just kill some basics"
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And this is the problem with Catcher. I'm player 4 in every deck just because but the card is still way overpowered. Yoshi is right. The bench should not be unattackable, but there should be no consequence to benching a Pokemon needed for your deck to work and never getting a chance to get it.
 
Just to compare, something like Steelix Ex was considered broken because it was a stage 1 ex that would damage himself (in this deck at least) and needed ridiculus energies to snipe 100 damage
 
Just like last format, we had Luxchomp, Vilegar and G-dos. Now its going to be ZPS, Donphan/Yanmega and Beartic/Vileplume. Just makes you not want to play and I had HIGH hopes for this format...
 
I think what we need is a card that promotes playing from behind. The thing is that Twins are great but they just give you cards, not an actual gameplay advantge (like scramble). I still like the new poke center and N, N will be such a good and needed card.

I dont think the format will be THAT bad, but I think well see a lot of good players loosing to bad players on opening hands and going seconde. There are other decks that work IMO but theyre all really alike.
 
autowins some, autoloses some, hardly any inbetween. Maybe with the icecreamconething but before thaat, idk
 
Vaporeon is focusing on the wrong issues. In relation to catcher you're seem to be focusing too more on the problems of the first turn rule, leading to Yanmega/Donphan second turn KOs. With more big basics coming out in the November set it should become less of an issue. Vileplume is not so big an issue this season because we no longer have Spiritomb, which would have been horrible if the format was AR-ON. Vileplume was a necessary evil last year due to how broken Gyarados and SP were last season. However I do agree with Yoshi that we need more cards in the format that allow you to come from behind in the form of items and energies.

BearPlume will not be a very good deck, while some of the popular decks right now will have autolosses to it. Yanmega is too big a factor, and will continue to be at least until early next year. Overall, it's too slow and low damaging to be considered tier 1.
 
why are you even arguing?
the card is being printed.
instead of waisting all of your time here complaining about catcher, you should be desk-building/ testing to adjust to its appearance in the game.
 
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