Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Win one and done.

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Otaku said:
Rather amazed how confident some are about TCG matches. You know, a game inherently based upon luck. Let alone a game like ours with six cards randomly removed from your deck at the beginning of the game and one card you won't be able to use win or lose. This game still has quite a few coin flip based events as well. I myself have on occasion beaten players far better than myself. Not through their own mistakes, but by simply the luck of the draw. What do you do when you start with a single Pokemon and against the odds, get nothing but Energy as they quickly KO you?
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if the game relied solely on luck, ANYONE could win an event, simply by being the luckiest that day, but then you see the same people over and over winning event after event, they can't get lucky on a consistant basis now can they? skill and deck building are the major factors, if both are on equal level, luck and mistakes kick in to determine the winner.
 
Neither of the last two posts seem to understand my point: luck cannont be eliminated from the game. As such, I find the "confidence" that one needs in order to bow out of first place at a major event with the expectation that the next event they will place high enough to offset the prize (referring to the prizes for the tournaments) difference questionable. No, I am not saying the winner is determined entirely due to luck. I guess I was trying to be too... subtle? Not the right word, but it shall have to suffice.

My point, since I must lay it out bluntly, is that I find it most foolish to risk so much by forfeiting 1st place for 2nd at a major event. So convinced that in this game, when the best players are competing, you'll manage to place high enought to offset the difference in prizes? As I was getting at, no matter how good you are, you cannot entirely exorcise the spectre of luck from the game.

It takes but a single person getting lucky to ruin this plan of "forfeiting" for maximum prizes. Nor does it require that much luck, unless you truly believe yourself superior to such a large percentage of Pokemon Players. The players that make it to the finals in a Regional or Gym Challenge may not all be "worthy", but all it takes is a loss that bumps you down low enough that the prize support doesn't break even. I don't recall the exact amounts, but an "upset" doesn't have to occur in the finals, either. True, the further back you go, the more luck has to play a part, but it's still there.
 
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I think what Otaku is trying to say here is that it's quite foolish to believe intentionally taking second place will leave any given player with more prize material. With the amount of luck needed to win this game, to make more from forfeiting first place and playing again, it takes either:
1.Someone extremely lucky
2.Someone extremely skilled to the point where they can override all bad coin flips, etc. and still win.
I highly doubt anyone here is that good either way. So it really makes everyone who's saying forfeiting first place is good look full of themselves. I'm not trying to be mean, but honestly. Nobody here is good enough to know they'll place in high positions in multiple events.
 
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I think what Otaku is trying to say is: "Presuming you can get to the finals of one Regionals, why would you forfeit that match with the risk of getting majorly DONKed in your next Regionals?"

If you've made it to the finals, just why would you want to forfeit it?

And for those of you that still would, please answer me this question: "What would you do if you made it to the finals of one Regionals, conceded that game so you could play again next week, and ended up getting majorly DONKed in T16 in your second Regionals? How would you feel? What would you do?"
 
Just take a look at all the players who gave up their invite just so they could play in the Grinder.

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
 
The Gorn said:
Just take a look at all the players who gave up their invite just so they could play in the Grinder.

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
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But you don't win anything in the grinder, unlike the compensation of more prizes at regionals/nationals.
Besides, the grinder was =\
Had to go undefeated. I was playing yu-gi-oh.
 
Maybe some players HAVE to rely on luck to win, but the same names just keep on showing everytime at most of the events, can you tell me they are lucky? no, the top players rely more on skill and deck building to win, and thus they most of the time come out on top, unless they lose due to luck (but usually this happens in the finals, and against other top players).

Who are the people who disagree with this rule? the ones that continually do good at events and are able to win more than 1, the not so top players are happy as now the top players aren't there to eliminate them, and they may get lucky and win.
 
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Mudkip said:
Maybe some players HAVE to rely on luck to win, but the same names just keep on showing everytime at most of the events, can you tell me they are lucky? no, the top players rely more on skill and deck building to win, and thus they most of the time come out on top, unless they lose due to luck (but usually this happens in the finals, and against other top players).

Who are the people who disagree with this rule? the ones that continually do good at events and are able to win more than 1, the not so top players are happy as now the top players aren't there to eliminate them, and they may get lucky and win.
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Mudkip, you're not getting what Otaku was saying.
Yes, the best players tend to win the Major tournaments. If that wasn't the case, frankly there would be no point in trying to build the best deck and practice and become skilled.

So, yes, skilled players will win the tournament.

The point, though, is that the winner of the tournament is not necessarily the absolute best player, nor is it predictable.

For example, look at the top players that failed to make the cut at Worlds. Or even look at examples from your own games. How many times have you lost due to a bad matchup or amazingly bad or good coin flips? It happens. Luck is a part of this game. You can work to reduce it, but anyone who claims they have eliminated it is a fool, to be blunt.
Otaku's point is that a smart player, when faced with the choice of X Dollars in their hand vs x dollars now and the chance of more X Dollars in the future will factor the odds of that luck (and let's not forget the other skilled players trying for that money too!) and it will be surprising if a truely smart player will take the chance.

It would be like a poker player drawing AD, KD, QD, JD, 7D and tossing the 7D in order to try to get a 10D for the Straight Flush. That player recognizes that no matter how skilled they are, the is a certain amount of luck the game they are playing and they have to take that into account.
 
PokePop said:
Mudkip, you're not
Yes, the best players tend to win the Major tournaments. If that wasn't the case, frankly there would be no point in trying to build the best deck and practice and become skilled.

So, yes, skilled players will win the tournament.

The point, though, is that the winner of the tournament is not necessarily the absolute best player, nor is it predictable.

For example, look at the top players that failed to make the cut at Worlds.
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I think Pokepop has made a lot of good points, and I think the "metagame" is so open now and there is sooooo many possible good decks now that bad matchups are more likely making the odds of a bad match up against a good player (I also think the good player pool is getting larger) much higher and most people will now take the win and be happy with that rather than risk it !
I'm sure there are some people out there that will take that chance, some will get burnt and some won't, but I think there will be fewer people out there that will be willing to take that chance !! And fewer still that will succeed :rolleyes:


JMHO
:wink:
 
This idea is absolutely suicidal!

Ok, yes maybe the scenario above may never happen its still something that could happen, but why one and done? When a person who has already won a trip wins another one, its trickles down! So the 2nd place player ALSO gets to go, but i see what you mean about the collusion but its gonna happen, unless you BAN the person from GCs they will still enter and help their friend(s). Sorry, but people who do that will find a way around it.

But what about worlds? Does winning worlds now, become a curse? So if i win worlds, i am hereby cursed and cannot compete in Reg/Gyms?

Im sorry but this idea is really facing the ground.

Tom
 
I don't think that the person that wins Worlds (Venusaur, in this case) won't be able to play in Gyms and Regionals.
I'm sure that it is "win one and done" per series, not for the entire tournament year.
 
A. I would like to see Jeremy able to play in the Regionals. Trip or no trip, there is Scholarship money at stake that would be nice for him to have a shot at.

B. Having all the Regionals on the same day would alleviate about 98% of this confusion. Regionals are the ONLY scholarship-attached event outside of Nationals and Worlds. Gyms are self explanatory (they are basically grinders to get seats in Worlds with trips). States, easy enough. PUI could take a lot of headache away with all Regionals falling on the same day! Being in one of those "travelling" families, I would support this!

Talk to you all soon.

M45

Oh, and the luck thing....come on. If this game is all about luck, you would not see some of the same patterns we do. Is it any coincidence Yamato was in the top group again? Curran Hill wins Nationals and Worlds? All of the top 4 10- players in the US Nationals also make the top cut at Worlds?

I know there are other division, I focus on the 10- division because they are the most "random" at times, but the HIGH SKILL players keep showing up, year in and year out. That would not happen on a game based totally on luck.

As for the older divisions, yeah, there is a little more luck here only because the players are CLOSER in skill level, so the intangibles of the game have a tendency to take over. Even then, the players who STUDY the format, and get a few lucky pulls and pairings have the tendency to come out on top! Nidoqueen top 3 and 1st in the 15+ division??? Sounds like more skill than luck to me!!!

If it was really a luck based game, why would the better players keep invading to get prizes from areas perceived to be weaker, and even worse, why would they succeed???

Talk to you soon.

M45
 
Vince: We agree. It's not "all luck".
Please reread the posts and tell me where ANYONE says it's ALL luck.

As you say yourself, "yeah, there is a little more luck here only because the players are CLOSER in skill level, so the intangibles of the game have a tendency to take over."

What is being discussed is a person forfeiting 1st place in a Regional because they "know" that they will win the next one they go to.

Sure, one of the skilled players are going to win. But whose skill is so above the norm that they know they are going to repeat?

Seena? He won Nats. Where was he in the Worlds placing.
Jeremy? He won Worlds, but how many Premeire events did he have to go to before he won an invite (and not even a trip)?

Moss? If I recall his posts from earlier this year, he was begging for a freebie trip for a while until he finally won.

No, I don't think any person can guarantee that they are going to win any specific Premeire tournament.
 
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As much as I've been intrigued by some of the conversations that have come out of this thread (and I've certainly read it all and tried to reply to those that I could here and there), I don't think it's going anywhere at this point. Since we have no further information to report about one and done, let's close this for now, and wait until we get some. I'd like to ask the mods and admins respectfully if they would lock this, thanks.
 
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