Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Public Announcement: STRATEGY does NOT = BuildMeAList :/

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Doesn't ANYONE remember when you were new and you called THEME DECKS your "new deck"??

Remember how excited you got when a new THEME DECK was released?

I've learned through my own family how rushing into tournament play sucks the enjoyment out of the actual game.

I do remember. [Life-Story Alert] I remember when I first got started on Pokemon. It was around the same time I first started going to Yu-Gi-Oh! Tournaments at a card shop I'd found out about at College. I noticed people were playing Pokemon TCG and I remembered collecting the cards back in High-School, though never actually PLAYING the game.

I didn't have a lot of money back then to buy random booster-packs, so I would buy theme-decks to play with. Even back then, I noticed things, That my deck had too much energy and too many basic pokemon, some of which weren't very useful at all. So I would buy or trade cards that looked good and put them in my deck to make it better. I thought to myself, "This card has a really nice effect and seems like it'd fit the theme of the deck. I'll try it out."

I entered them in random League Tournies, but didn't do too horribly well. I would wonder where I was going wrong and then I would hear things, off-offhandedly, like how having a high number of supporters in one's deck was a good idea, as 'Draw Power and search is always good'. Little things like this would get my attention and I would take this advice; which ultimately improved my gameplay. My advice didn't always come from a 'Prime and Trustworthy' source, but when I listened to and actually took advice it was nearly always because someone had said exactly what was good and explained why it was good, and when I thought about it it made total sense to me.

Randomness, top decks, coin flips, special conditions and basic combos are FUN when you're new to the game.

Not just then. I'm not a Pro by any lengths, but I'm competitive and far from a newbie to this game. Everything you mentioned is STILL fun to me and take precedence in a LOT of my decks. In my opinion, consistency is fun, makes sense, and wins games. But, it also makes you a lot more predictable, making it easier for your moves to be countered. But, if your deck contains a bit of a luck factor, to the point where even you don't know how things will turn out most of the time, then it's almost easier and certainly more fun when you get an edge against your rival from a great topdeck or a lucky coinflip.

IMO playing the same way the Top players play, using all the same strategies and cards the Top players use, may net you more prizes and win you more games, but it won't necessarily increase your overall fun and enjoyment in the game. Some enjoy being random and unpredictable and being severely non-competitive when they play. I feel one should play the game in the manner they most enjoy, and shouldn't be, say, belittled or looked down upon for not being as cutthroat as the more competitive and Pro players. If you're playing Pokemon, not cheating, and having fun, let it ride.

I still drop by occasionally, but I don't really post a lot anymore. This is because I still see a nice concept or strategy tip that I may have not thought about, but because as strategy discussions get deeper and deeper, criticism of details tend to get harsher and harsher.

With the moderation on 'Gym being as strict as it is, sometimes what one person may consider to be just batting away an unworkable idea comes off as flaming or a personal attack, and infractions/bans ensue.

I don't post a whole lot myself, but that's usually because I can't think of anything to say. I try to speak when I have something to say, like now. It may be me adding in my 2 cents, it may be supporting another's idea, or it may be me giving advice.

Very few people I know enjoy the company or opinions of overly rude people, even if their advice is sound. Age regardless, I find one is more then likely to dismiss the content of something if the presentation left much to be desired, so to speak. I.E:

"This deck idea sucks and everyone who disagrees is a noob. Where's your card draw? How are you getting your energy? What's your counter to this? Take out these jank cards, change the line-up, and then post this again, because right now it';s ridiculous. I know this is a 'Fun' deck, because if you came to a tournament with this I'd so laugh in your face before I stomped you."

Yeah, they're so going to take your advice because you took the time to break everything down, in a nice civilized manner, without making them think they fail at life. I try to be more like so:

"Hmmm, Truth be told, I fear you'd have a hard time fighting against the 'Top Tier' decks with this one, just because they're so much faster. Though, I like this. You may want to exchange Cheerleader's Cheer for Looker's Investigation, since it not only lets you draw more cards overall but it'll work well with..."

Civil, helpful, and to the point without making them automatically defensive. 9 times out of 10 at least. It shouldn't be that serious that one feels the need to snub and dismiss, and personally, I like to comb through the first few pages of the Deck Help section, find the threads there with slim to none replies, and give what advice I can. People post there for help (often enough) and it makes no sense to ignore them if one's decently knowledgeable of the subject. No one likes to be ignored. I haven't gotten any infractions in such things yet, though I do admit that some mods are a bit strict. I've gotten a few infractions on things that I felt merited a friendly reminder at worst.

People go to GA for the points, there is enough quality players there I don't think people really care if there is more of them.

I'd beg to differ. For me, half the fun of going to a big event is because it's so big. The more the merrier I say. If 9 out of 10 are playing the exact same thing then it gets quite tedious, but otherwise I hope more people learn to play and show up, to keep things as diverse and interesting as possible. Especially if they're quality. People come and go all the time, so I think a never-ending stream of quality players is mos def a good idea.

If you take anything from post/rant then take this. I don't really think a sub-forum for 'adults' only is necessary, nor do I think we should straight-up ban Seniors/Juniors/Noobs from posting. Nor should we outright hate those in charge.

I feel 3 things:

- The Mods should pause, think-twice, and decide if this post/member REALLY deserves an infraction for what he just did/said, and/or if this thread is REALLY off-topic in a way that a meaning-full and relevant discussion isn't still being made, albeit if it now only loosely reflects the threads title. One can easily follow the spirit of the law, even if it's not to a 'T'.

- The kids were here first and this game was made for them first, so let's respect that. Rather then silence them in the boards, let them speak! Let them get it all off their chest! But, if you're more knowledgeable of the subject at hand, then make it obvious without being off-putting. I.E., look at someone's deck-list and offer suggestions, letting them know EXACTLY why you are saying they should add/remove something, so that even a day 1 player can look at the post and think, "that makes perfect sense! I understand!" ..........Without being snide, sarcastic, and impatient about it. It should really only take a few extra minutes of one's time.

- When the Mod's see a truly engaging, thought-provoking thread or article, assuming they already don't, they should sticky it and make it stand out. Even if it's something that seems silly, if it makes one stop, sit, and really think about it, it should be easy to notice and view. That way the more new players can easily tell who it is around here that actually knows what they're talking about and they'll know exactly who it is to listen to in the future, should said people happen to post in their threads.

Just my opinion, for now. And, at risk of infractions for inside jokes, I now return you to your regularly scheduled program. :redface:
 
...

- The Mods should pause, think-twice, and decide if this post/member REALLY deserves an infraction for what he just did/said, and/or if this thread is REALLY off-topic in a way that a meaning-full and relevant discussion isn't still being made, albeit if it now only loosely reflects the threads title. One can easily follow the spirit of the law, even if it's not to a 'T'.

- The kids were here first and this game was made for them first, so let's respect that. Rather then silence them in the boards, let them speak! Let them get it all off their chest! But, if you're more knowledgeable of the subject at hand, then make it obvious without being off-putting. I.E., look at someone's deck-list and offer suggestions, letting them know EXACTLY why you are saying they should add/remove something, so that even a day 1 player can look at the post and think, "that makes perfect sense! I understand!" ..........Without being snide, sarcastic, and impatient about it. It should really only take a few extra minutes of one's time.

- When the Mod's see a truly engaging, thought-provoking thread or article, assuming they already don't, they should sticky it and make it stand out. Even if it's something that seems silly, if it makes one stop, sit, and really think about it, it should be easy to notice and view. That way the more new players can easily tell who it is around here that actually knows what they're talking about and they'll know exactly who it is to listen to in the future, should said people happen to post in their threads.

Just my opinion, for now. And, at risk of infractions for inside jokes, I now return you to your regularly scheduled program. :redface:

First of all.... W O W !!! Where have YOU been???!

That was an amazing post man!

HOly Cow! Thanks for taking the time to post that :smile:

Everything in the first half of your post is so good, but I'm only quoting the last half because that's the part I'm speaking directly to...

Point 1 - Mods thinking before they "infract"

There's SO MUCH discussion in the mod section over warnings and infractions; they're not just handed out like a quota or a let's-see-who-has-the-most contest. Over-modding is #1 on our list of concerns. It may not seem that way because ANYONE who gets a "friendly reminder" goes off hollering about how they got an "infraction." I'm kinda sick of that man. It's false information that renders a false impression of what we're doing.

If you get a "friendly reminder" it's SO NOT an infraction for points. It's actually a .. friendly reminder that it's against the rules to do that (or, borderline at least).

On the Mod boards, we're constantly checking each other to make sure nothing was misread, misunderstood, misdiagnosed etc. There's been LOTS of times when another mod says "RA, I think you read this one the wrong way." I'll run over and reverse the thing and shoot a quick PM to the member like "sorry man. I saw that wrong."

There's alot of thinking going on. The goal is to just create a friendly, collaborative enviornment, not an unwelcoming one.

CONSIDER THIS...

Sometimes, it's not the MODS making it bad, it's the "WHAT YOU'VE HEARD" making it bad. People start tossing around "I got an infraction" story just for attention. That's really getting on my nerves man. It does nothing good to just gossip about infractions you never got. It just tears down the site.

2. I love the way you spoke about abandoning the "it's the kids" argument. Again, there's too many teens and adults here contributing to the problem. Alot of kids don't even post at all. Immaturity resides within all age groups.

3. I had the "Guru Points" thing to encourage/reward people for good posts, but that got to be overwhelming. I'm working on another way to reckognize people though. Love the suggestion of sticky posts!

Thank you SO MUCH for coming in here. Your 2 cents worth is priceless :smile:
 
"Thanks" has in a way removed the guru points idea, but why not see if a new thing could be introduced like "Thanks" but specifically can only be given by mods for good posts? Like guru points but not just a verbal designation.
 
"Thanks" has in a way removed the guru points idea, but why not see if a new thing could be introduced like "Thanks" but specifically can only be given by mods for good posts? Like guru points but not just a verbal designation.

Except, as brought up in the past, moderators are not necessarily players that can always decide whether a post is actually "good" or not...

There is the aspect of how helpful and thoughtful a post is, but there is also the aspect of whether or not the advice is actually any good. Personally the latter is significantly more important to me.
 
Based on what I've read of this thread, I'd like to offer my own two cents:

First of all, one of the biggest issues is most certainly mods going on power trips. This often happens with new mods who feel the obligation to overdo their job.

Example (with my qualms in bold):

DarkStar20 said:
Ok guys, we've had a couple of problems with people breaking The Rules the last couple of weeks on these city boards, so i figured this would be a nice thread to help you guys avoid getting some 'time outs' here on the gym. Just some simple easy tips from a nobody staff member trying to help you out!

Tip #1
Be careful with your Reports.
-Don't be a jerk to people in your reports, that'll get you flagged.
-Don't write fake reports, that'll get you banned.

*If you see someone write a fake report…don’t contribute to the spam by posting *Hey, this is fake…they are gonna delete this.. YOU WATCH* That’s like watching some guy get robbed at the 7-11. REPORT IT…there is that nice little button in the bottom left corner of the post, click it, report it, and DON”T CONTRIBUTE TO THE SPAM!
-I WISH I could give infractions for LAME reports, (We've had a few stinkers lately), so give us some good info with your reports, we don't wanna hear how you came to the prerelease, got the cards, scooped the first round and wondered whether not to go see a movie or play in round 2. USELESS.
-Don't let other people post on your account to write their reports, they may not be reading these tips!!!

Tip #2
Be careful with your posting in the 'What Won Cities (or anything) Thread' or the 'Unofficial Ratings Thread'
-If you aren't contributing to the Stats, don't post on these threads.
*Most threads are a little lax on 'off topic' posting, on this thread, we don't want the opinions, we don't want the reactions, we are looking for PURE STATISTICS. It's hard work tabulating all that info, we don't wanna know the guy next to you was playing that First Place deck. >.<

MORE TO COME I'M SURE.

The majority of this post gives off the impression of a jerk (which is ironic because he is telling you not to be one) who is just looking for people to ban. Furthermore, the tone of this post is flat-out bullying. Just picture little Johnny coming on and finding out that the staff who are supposed to look out for him are instead telling him that his report that he worked so hard to write is so 'LAME' that he just wishes he could give him a 'time-out'. Do you think it's responsible for a moderator to call members' input 'USELESS'? This is about as clear as abuse of power can get. Finishing with 'MORE TO COME I'M SURE' gives off the impression of a grumpy mod who clearly doesn't enjoy being on the Pokégym. Maybe if a certain few mods tried being nice to the members, then there would be less frustration going around - a few mods are giving the entire group a bad name.

I hardly consider myself a goody-two-shoes, but the only warnings I've gotten were from Evil Psyduck and I deserved them. However, nobody deserves a warning for commenting in a fake report; that's ridiculous.

Eeveelover said:
Here is the problem with an 'adult' forum.

Technically wise.

How hard is it for me to prove how old you are? I can go by the date of birth that you entered into the registration form, but is that accurate? Now, I am sure yours is correct, but how about the other 20,000 people on this site?

I catch people lying about their age all the time. Some do it to try and get around the COPPA forms, some do it to just be older on the forums.

Second issue.

What do we allow the cut off for the age limit?

I know 40 year olds that I would not consider adult enough. I know 12 year olds that I would.

I don't think you understand the point of a 'mature' forum. To restrict it only to adults, I agree, would be impossible to enforce, as well as a pointless endeavor.

I don't know about you, but imo a 'mature' forum should be open to everyone - by enforcing an unenforceable rule, you punish people for being honest. However, upon entering a mature forum, members would have to acknowledge that their deck ideas will be criticized honestly. A 'view at your own risk' type deal. This way, the responsibility is on the member - they acknowledge that not all critics will tell them how great their Poliwrath/ Linoone deck is.

Don't determine who is mature enough. Let them determine for themselves whether they are. If they receive criticism that is too harsh, they will leave, and by virtue of it being in the mature forum, they forfeit any right to defend themselves against the criticism. If you're looking for sugarcoated reviews, the mature forum would be the wrong place to go.


I appreciate it when moderators are willing to hear the voices of the members. A majority of Pokégym mods are certainly to be commended for their open-mindedness and earnestness in doing their job.

A few mods, however, are continually defending their own actions as well as those of any other mod. They are the ones who turn it into an 'us vs them'. Just because a mod does it does not mean it is right, and mods shouldn't stick up for other mods just because they're mods. Some of the mods would do well to remember that participation in the Pokégym is voluntary, and many have left due to perceived abuse of power. 'Would warning this person somehow better the community?' is an important question to ask yourself each and every time you're about to press the button.
 
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I know the person that started that thread about cities wins, he's a really cool guy, so i guess im kind of wrong.
 
I don't think you understand the point of a 'mature' forum. To restrict it only to adults, I agree, would be impossible to enforce, as well as a pointless endeavor.

I don't know about you, but imo a 'mature' forum should be open to everyone - by enforcing an unenforceable rule, you punish people for being honest. However, upon entering a mature forum, members would have to acknowledge that their deck ideas will be criticized honestly. A 'view at your own risk' type deal. This way, the responsibility is on the member - they acknowledge that not all critics will tell them how great their Poliwrath/ Linoone deck is.

I don't get it. Is it really impossible to criticize honestly a deck without breaking the current rules?
 
Based on what I've read of this thread, I'd like to offer my own two cents:

*SNIP*

Finishing with 'MORE TO COME I'M SURE' gives off the impression of a grumpy mod who clearly doesn't enjoy being on the Pokégym.
This is the only thing I'll give you on your power trip rant. I agree with everything after you quoted EeveeLover, so I won't bother quoting all that.

On most of those points, it just seems as though he was naming off the repercussions for breaking certain rules. He's making it clear what can and cannot be done. That's what we need around here.

Also, you try gathering all the results of those thread when there are countless people posting useless stuff in them. It is hard enough work without having to sort through spam. Those threads have one purpose, and that's collecting data. Don't make it hard on people trying to do the community a service.



I will agree, however, that adding, "MORE TO COME I'M SURE," at the end of the post definitely gives off the wrong impression. Wouldn't exactly call it a power trip, it just leaves the wrong impression.
 
I don't get it. Is it really impossible to criticize honestly a deck without breaking the current rules?

I did type up a long post one this subject and then just kinda gave up on it (R_A, if you want to hit me up on MSN, I would be more comfortable discussing it there), but in many cases it's very, very difficult to do, certainly not worth the effort to many of us.

I feel like a broken record but the gym kind of has to decide if it wants to be a place that feels worthy of good discussion or a place where you feel totally safe sending anyone's kids, because the two things are mutually exclusive. I'm sorry that the world isn't all that great, but many people are jerks - or tend to act like jerks - and whether or not you like it, if you want them to come to your site, you're going to have to cater to them.

MANY great players are "mature" and "nice" - see Ness, Nance, etc... - but do you see these people posting in discussion or help threads much at all? Nope. They are people, too, and they have a tolerance for other people ignoring their credentials and their hard-earned, very valid advice... and eventually, they're going to have to make a choice: are they going to give up and let the idiots with bad ideas and advice win out? Or are they going to keep trying, despite their clear aggravation that is becoming very difficult to keep out of their words, for that user and all other readers?

You can wish and hope all you want, and in real life society it works out this way, but in "reality" (mostly, on the internet) people tend towards being jerks like this and trying to deter them will... deter them from doing anything at all.

I don't know about you, but imo a 'mature' forum should be open to everyone - by enforcing an unenforceable rule, you punish people for being honest. However, upon entering a mature forum, members would have to acknowledge that their deck ideas will be criticized honestly. A 'view at your own risk' type deal. This way, the responsibility is on the member - they acknowledge that not all critics will tell them how great their Poliwrath/ Linoone deck is.

Don't determine who is mature enough. Let them determine for themselves whether they are. If they receive criticism that is too harsh, they will leave, and by virtue of it being in the mature forum, they forfeit any right to defend themselves against the criticism. If you're looking for sugarcoated reviews, the mature forum would be the wrong place to go.

This is exactly what I suggest and feel is appropriate for a site that wants to have a strong, skilled member base. There are some practicality issues with putting this into the Gym, though; ideally your entire forum would be structured like this.

No matter what you do, trying to constrict the voice of your site is going to aggravate members who violate that voice. In this case, you're trying to make everyone either act like parents or act like kids, and the vast majority of your member base is REALLY in between, sitting there thinking about how they can't say anything they'd really like to say.
 
I did type up a long post one this subject and then just kinda gave up on it (R_A, if you want to hit me up on MSN, I would be more comfortable discussing it there), but in many cases it's very, very difficult to do, certainly not worth the effort to many of us.

I feel like a broken record but the gym kind of has to decide if it wants to be a place that feels worthy of good discussion or a place where you feel totally safe sending anyone's kids, because the two things are mutually exclusive. I'm sorry that the world isn't all that great, but many people are jerks - or tend to act like jerks - and whether or not you like it, if you want them to come to your site, you're going to have to cater to them.

MANY great players are "mature" and "nice" - see Ness, Nance, etc... - but do you see these people posting in discussion or help threads much at all? Nope. They are people, too, and they have a tolerance for other people ignoring their credentials and their hard-earned, very valid advice... and eventually, they're going to have to make a choice: are they going to give up and let the idiots with bad ideas and advice win out? Or are they going to keep trying, despite their clear aggravation that is becoming very difficult to keep out of their words, for that user and all other readers?

You can wish and hope all you want, and in real life society it works out this way, but in "reality" (mostly, on the internet) people tend towards being jerks like this and trying to deter them will... deter them from doing anything at all.

I still don't get it Kayle.

Are you saying that the only way you can get good players giving good advice on this site is to allow them to 'act like jerks'?

Honestly? Is THAT what is keeping the good players away from the Gym?

Bad players who are stubborn are not suddenly going to appreciate advice because the person giving it is being a jerk . . . they'll just be a jerk right back. THAT's the 'reality'.
 
I still don't get it Kayle.

Are you saying that the only way you can get good players giving good advice on this site is to allow them to 'act like jerks'?

Good players are constantly giving good advice on the Gym.

Problem is, people don't listen, and the good players get very tired of it and leave, especially when they can't "do anything about it".

---------- Post added 01/09/2011 at 03:17 PM ----------

Bad players who are stubborn are not suddenly going to appreciate advice because the person giving it is being a jerk . . . they'll just be a jerk right back. THAT's the 'reality'.

Don't stop short. You're absolutely right, but here's the thing: when you have an experienced, established player "attacking" a newer player, the rest of the site will back up the established player because they know that the criticism is well-based. The new stubborn player is forced to face the choice between being wrong and walking away (since they are way outnumbered and no one is listening to them) or giving up and changing their minds, making everyone happy and advancing as a player.

It's a bully's approach, but just go start talking to some people who dislike the current democratic system... this is basically how it works.
 
Good players are constantly giving good advice on the Gym.

Problem is, people don't listen, and the good players get very tired of it and leave, especially when they can't "do anything about it".

Completely agree that people who don't listen is a big problem.

Only thing is, I don't see how letting people be jerk-ish would help with it. You would just get exactly the same thing happening but with added flaming. Which would be entertaining but . . .

I honestly don't know how to fix it

Don't stop short. You're absolutely right, but here's the thing: when you have an experienced, established player "attacking" a newer player, the rest of the site will back up the established player because they know that the criticism is well-based. The new stubborn player is forced to face the choice between being wrong and walking away (since they are way outnumbered and no one is listening to them) or giving up and changing their minds, making everyone happy and advancing as a player.

It's a bully's approach, but just go start talking to some people who dislike the current democratic system... this is basically how it works.

That can (and does) happen now . . . only without swearing and flaming (mostly). I just don't see how adding those things to the mix would make it better.
 
Completely agree that people who don't listen is a big problem.

Only thing is, I don't see how letting people be jerk-ish would help with it. You would just get exactly the same thing happening but with added flaming. Which would be entertaining but . . .

As sad as it sounds, that's basically it. When you can flame, it's funny for those on the outside and keeps people interested. When you can't, people get bored and annoyed, and leave.

It's not like I "like" the way this seems to work, in my experience, any more than you do; this is just my observation, with sites that have stayed around and people liked, versus sites that people didn't like.
 
Something what came up while reading all of this.

Why not limit new users in posting.
New users, no matter of which age are most time not experienced at all.
They sign up and start posting, while I think they should read more to get the idea about this game.

Why not giving new users only permission to post in a kind of "I am new can you help me" part and after 2 months expand permission.

It has nothing to do with being a good/bad players, but more with "forcing" people to read/learn.
For example if I see how many questions are asked in Ask the rules team, I always get a feeling most of them are new users, not knowing (and not having the patience) to learn how to find answers.
They take the short cut, direct posting, while many times answers can be found by learning how this site works and read.
If they are 'forced' to lurk around for period of time I think they will use available resources, because they have to.

Perhaps I am wrong about this, it's just an idea I got.
 
Well, a lot of players that are experienced may come to the pokegym, so that would be silly. but i do understand where you are coming from.
 
Well, a lot of players that are experienced may come to the pokegym, so that would be silly. but i do understand where you are coming from.


A lot of experienced players got part of their experience by reading/lurking here.
They will have accounts older than 1 year.
They get ideas from this site even if they would never admit it.
If they don't, they are not experienced.

This site has a lot to offer for those who are willing to spend time to find ideas.
Sadly the current attitude is: Get a skeleton list, win a tournaments and think they are an experienced/good player.
These people are imo the ones who are burning down each deck help request.
They most times have no clue about building a deck from scratch, heck they even think the only way to play this game is using a skeleton list from internet.
To be honest the format we have is partly debit of this.
 
The thing that I find funny is by most members standards, I am a horrible player.

I have never won a Sanctioned event, I don't netdeck, and I don't play against the meta.

I always am running some goofy deck that is based off Eevee and some Evos and I have a good time with it.

Does that make me a n00b?
 
My point exactly. I know a lot of great players who don't even know what pokegym is, so if you limited their access, that would be foolish and lose a lot of members.
 
My point exactly. I know a lot of great players who don't even know what pokegym is, so if you limited their access, that would be foolish and lose a lot of members.

You'd have to admit it would curb down a lot on the amount of awful advice given on here with members who have accounts that are less than 6 months old. I seriously think that any site requires at least 3 months of lurking so people get a feel of the site and what constitutes a 'good' post.

You can't have your cake and eat it too I guess.



Does that make me a n00b?

That all depends. Do you have a consistent list and run 4 Call energy? lol :wink:
 
^And personally, as a trader, this system of limiting a new user would be very restricting. I don't call myself a great player or anything since I mostly play for fun, but I joined here originally to trade. If after joining you would've told me that I had to wait 2 months to start trading, I would've gone elsewhere.
 
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