Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

AMU vs: Machamp SF

Burninating_Torchic said:
You keep saying you outspeed champ, but there's really no concrete proof of this.
AMU's claim is that it can get set up t2-3 consistently.
I'd say that in practice it does this about 50-60% of the time.
Machamp can get out just as quickly (you don't even NEED candy to get set up quickly) - stage 2 decks have always tended to be slower than basic/stage 1 decks, but this is primarily due to energy costs. Machamp's attack costs less than Mesprit's.

And I still laugh at people who say a deck can beat most decks in the format when the format doesn't even exist yet.
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uh... br's are already going on dude. a meta-game, no matter how shallow, exists.

mesprit? mesprit? i dont need mesprit, you got +30 weakness, i can just plow away with anything else and i out-consistancy you... you lose. T1 should be 30 and sleep ideally, or in macops case 40 and sleep... thats quite severe for turn 1 tbh... and unown G is played in AMU, the people you play against with the deck must have just sucked tbh. but champ wont work, AMU isnt even the most popular deck, and this is pretty much an anti-AMU deck. what do you do against kingdra? level up? fold? either way you've lost before you've even sat down.
 
lolganium said:
uh... br's are already going on dude. a meta-game, no matter how shallow, exists.

mesprit? mesprit? i dont need mesprit, you got +30 weakness, i can just plow away with anything else and i out-consistancy you... you lose. T1 should be 30 and sleep ideally, or in macops case 40 and sleep... thats quite severe for turn 1 tbh... and unown G is played in AMU, the people you play against with the deck must have just sucked tbh. but champ wont work, AMU isnt even the most popular deck, and this is pretty much an anti-AMU deck. what do you do against kingdra? level up? fold? either way you've lost before you've even sat down.
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Is Stormfront legal for BRs?
That's what I thought.
Single sets can drastically change metagames.

As for your idea of attacking with other fairies... Mesprit LvX is the ONLY thing in the deck that can OHKO Machamp, because, as I said, you don't level up against pixies. Machamp can, on the other hand, OHKO your entire deck.

Your t1 scenario implies that you'll start with Uxie MT every game. You won't.
As for out-consistancying champ... that's debatable. Depends on both lists.
And if the lists you're seeing are playing Unown G before Stormfront is even out... then frankly, Machamp's got the upper hand, because the lists you're seeing are bad.

Your statement about Machamp's matchups vs. other decks is pure ignorance; so much so that I'm not even going to acknowledge it.
 
Burninating_Torchic said:
Is Stormfront legal for BRs?
That's what I thought.
Single sets can drastically change metagames.

As for your idea of attacking with other fairies... Mesprit LvX is the ONLY thing in the deck that can OHKO Machamp, because, as I said, you don't level up against pixies. Machamp can, on the other hand, OHKO your entire deck.

Your t1 scenario implies that you'll start with Uxie MT every game. You won't.
As for out-consistancying champ... that's debatable. Depends on both lists.
And if the lists you're seeing are playing Unown G before Stormfront is even out... then frankly, Machamp's got the upper hand, because the lists you're seeing are bad.

Your statement about Machamp's matchups vs. other decks is pure ignorance; so much so that I'm not even going to acknowledge it.
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your missing the point, aanyone with half a brain would know the change in play a set can make. your OHKO point is still flawed, AMU beats you in consistancy, you cant actually keep up... thats the point. and tbh its a dumb deck idea anyway cause the next ghastly coming out wont even let you donk, and that gengar is gonna replace kingdra in popularity :tongue:

i dont mind, if you wanna play sludge and lose thats your problem... have fun going 1-4 at every tourney (the one is the lucky donk you pull on a n00b btw)
 
lolganium said:
your missing the point, aanyone with half a brain would know the change in play a set can make. your OHKO point is still flawed, AMU beats you in consistancy, you cant actually keep up... thats the point. and tbh its a dumb deck idea anyway cause the next ghastly coming out wont even let you donk, and that gengar is gonna replace kingdra in popularity :tongue:

i dont mind, if you wanna play sludge and lose thats your problem... have fun going 1-4 at every tourney (the one is the lucky donk you pull on a n00b btw)
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Ugh I don't know how I can debate against someone whose arguments are so FLAWLESS. "if you wanna play sludge and lose thats your problem"... such a good point! I don't know how I can possibly retort!
Oh, wait, yes I do.

I have no intention of playing Machamp. Do I think it beats AMU? Yes. Do I think it can beat other decks? Yes. Do I think it's a good deck? Not at all; it's quite possibly worse than Mario. But the topic isn't "Is Machamp a good deck"; it's "Does Machamp beat AMU". And I believe it does.

As far as the only real point you made in that post goes... I still disagree that AMU wins in terms of consistency. I'm not seeing how the OHKO point is flawed, either; but I think you're saying that right after Machamp OHKOs something you can KO it right back, and its harder for Machamp to get back from that. My response is that by using Metagross efficiently, you can make it just as hard, if not harder, for AMU to recover from a KO.

Just as a side note, you should really work on your debate etiquette. That last sentence of your post serves no purpose other than to try and belittle the opponent, and could even be classified as ad hominem... which is something you want to avoid.
 
Burninating_Torchic said:
Ugh I don't know how I can debate against someone whose arguments are so FLAWLESS. "if you wanna play sludge and lose thats your problem"... such a good point! I don't know how I can possibly retort!
Oh, wait, yes I do.

I have no intention of playing Machamp. Do I think it beats AMU? Yes. Do I think it can beat other decks? Yes. Do I think it's a good deck? Not at all; it's quite possibly worse than Mario. But the topic isn't "Is Machamp a good deck"; it's "Does Machamp beat AMU". And I believe it does.

As far as the only real point you made in that post goes... I still disagree that AMU wins in terms of consistency. I'm not seeing how the OHKO point is flawed, either; but I think you're saying that right after Machamp OHKOs something you can KO it right back, and its harder for Machamp to get back from that. My response is that by using Metagross efficiently, you can make it just as hard, if not harder, for AMU to recover from a KO.

Just as a side note, you should really work on your debate etiquette. That last sentence of your post serves no purpose other than to try and belittle the opponent, and could even be classified as ad hominem... which is something you want to avoid.
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okay, so you say machamp can win against the decks that will be played in the format, but you dont think its a good deck? that doesnt work. a good deck is the one that wins games against other decks, so if it wins games, then its a good deck, you're contridicting yourself, unless your playing wailord or something then i believe you've slipped up there. when deciding whether something is better than something else there is alot more to look at than just that match-up itself, sure you've pointed out that you believe it ca beat other decks but obviously as you point out good decks don't beat other decks....

metagross? thats not even good, does anyone else see the four words "flip a coin" as a means to not go anywhere near it? cause if it is really that good then i'll put pokeball into ever one of my decks from now on ... exactly, no one plays pokeball for that reason.

deabte etiquette?this is an online pokemon card forum not house of lords. im just trying to help you out, being a nice and generous person i see no reason why you should go out and play bad decks, but hey... one more win for me if people want to adopt that philosify.
 
Ardoptres said:
Lol?
Why would anyone play Unown G when Machamp isn't out?
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Or even after its out...becuase these AMU players seem to be so head-strong about Machamp, to the point where they would just forget the Unown [G], and still say they could win. I'm not saying you can't, but without Unown [G], it can really ruin your day. Sorry, but I just don't think any of you will run Unown [G] in your AMU decks when it comes out. Besides the fact, you would probley need 4x Unown G to succesfully create a good wall :frown:

Lets do the math. Azelf and Uxie Lv.X can almost kill Machamp, but Machamp can knock em' dead, no matter what they have out.

And AMU doesn't run LB..at all. Okay? I don't care how much room is in there deck. They still have to play 4x Snowpoint Temple for there low down Hit Points, and then there probley gonna wanna throw in some Misma Valleys. But what deck runs more then 4 or 5 Stadiums? Plus, Machamp will probably already run some stadiums itself to counter Dusknoir Lv.X, so we can counter your Lake Boundary, nuff' said.

~~~
 
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lolganium said:
okay, so you say machamp can win against the decks that will be played in the format, but you dont think its a good deck? that doesnt work. a good deck is the one that wins games against other decks, so if it wins games, then its a good deck, you're contridicting yourself, unless your playing wailord or something then i believe you've slipped up there. when deciding whether something is better than something else there is alot more to look at than just that match-up itself, sure you've pointed out that you believe it ca beat other decks but obviously as you point out good decks don't beat other decks....

metagross? thats not even good, does anyone else see the four words "flip a coin" as a means to not go anywhere near it? cause if it is really that good then i'll put pokeball into ever one of my decks from now on ... exactly, no one plays pokeball for that reason.

deabte etiquette?this is an online pokemon card forum not house of lords. im just trying to help you out, being a nice and generous person i see no reason why you should go out and play bad decks, but hey... one more win for me if people want to adopt that philosify.
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Just because a deck can beat other decks doesn't mean it's good.
Mario could beat other decks by t1 donking them. Was it a good deck? Not in the slightest. But it somehow managed to go undefeated in the 07 grinder.

Metagross is not automatically horrible just because it requires a coin flip. You're right, people don't play Pokeball. But do people play super scoop up? You better believe it. ER2 when it was still in the format? Yep. Reversal (which was the same thing as Metagross's power)? Absolutely.
When it comes to coin flip cards, whether you play them or not depends on their effect. Some flip cards are worth it. Metagross is one of them.

As for that last part... "being a nice and generous person"... I literally lol'd.
 
In theory, Unown G works like a charm.

But literally, it won't work as well as everyone says it will.

In Machamp's favor.

EDIT: Leveled up, Machamp's Take out will do 100 to each pixe! With a Buck that's enough to ko
one with snowpoint in play!
 
metagross? thats not even good, does anyone else see the four words "flip a coin"
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I don't see four words. I see three words :rolleyes:

Then we will use Regice instead of Metagross, which automatically can keep Mesprit from getting out 3 Lv.X's if you just bring up, kill. Bring up, and kill.

~~~
 
Burninating_Torchic said:
Just because a deck can beat other decks doesn't mean it's good.
Mario could beat other decks by t1 donking them. Was it a good deck? Not in the slightest. But it somehow managed to go undefeated in the 07 grinder.

Metagross is not automatically horrible just because it requires a coin flip. You're right, people don't play Pokeball. But do people play super scoop up? You better believe it. ER2 when it was still in the format? Yep. Reversal (which was the same thing as Metagross's power)? Absolutely.
When it comes to coin flip cards, whether you play them or not depends on their effect. Some flip cards are worth it. Metagross is one of them.

As for that last part... "being a nice and generous person"... I literally lol'd.
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this is a different format to when reversal and ER2 was out, theres no room for pot-luck cards like that. mario wasnt a deck that just beat other decks, it donked other decks, in mid to late game it was rubbish. sure back when DX lunisol was playable it was ER2 reversal galore, but with this format you cant afford to hit a tails. its no good.

you mean someone who has pushed someone out the way of a car and taken the 30 mph hit isnt a nice person? must be mistaken.
 
lolganium said:
this is a different format to when reversal and ER2 was out, theres no room for pot-luck cards like that. mario wasnt a deck that just beat other decks, it donked other decks, in mid to late game it was rubbish. sure back when DX lunisol was playable it was ER2 reversal galore, but with this format you cant afford to hit a tails. its no good.

you mean someone who has pushed someone out the way of a car and taken the 30 mph hit isnt a nice person? must be mistaken.
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I disagree that this format has no room for flip cards. It's true that ER2 and Reversal are out of the format (Though I know that there are decks that would play them if they were in the format - ER2 would go great in the energyless Yanmega/Bronzong). And you failed to address Super Scoop Up - a flip card that IS in the format, and that IS played by a good number of top contenders.
As for Mario... yeah, it was a donk deck, and it was a bad deck. But it won games. Machamp will be similar, in my opinion.

And I am utterly dumbfounded by that last section of your post. Are you seriously trying to bring a COMPLETELY unrelated example in to try and prove your "niceness"? If I understand your argument correctly... because you saved someone from getting hit by a car, it is physically impossible for you to be rude on online forums. Yes... makes perfect sense.
 
Burninating_Torchic said:
I disagree that this format has no room for flip cards. It's true that ER2 and Reversal are out of the format (Though I know that there are decks that would play them if they were in the format - ER2 would go great in the energyless Yanmega/Bronzong). And you failed to address Super Scoop Up - a flip card that IS in the format, and that IS played by a good number of top contenders.
As for Mario... yeah, it was a donk deck, and it was a bad deck. But it won games. Machamp will be similar, in my opinion.

And I am utterly dumbfounded by that last section of your post. Are you seriously trying to bring a COMPLETELY unrelated example in to try and prove your "niceness"? If I understand your argument correctly... because you saved someone from getting hit by a car, it is physically impossible for you to be rude on online forums. Yes... makes perfect sense.
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i dont know anyone playing SSU, i dont even think tegechomp needs to play it. ive tried those yanmega/zong decks, they dont really work...

im not saying i cant possibly be rude, but tbh i havent been rude to you have i.
 
lolganium said:
i dont know anyone playing SSU, i dont even think tegechomp needs to play it. ive tried those yanmega/zong decks, they dont really work...

im not saying i cant possibly be rude, but tbh i havent been rude to you have i.
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Any deck that plays Pokemon with a coming into play power (Namely, Spiritomb), other than AMU, should play SSU.
And I dunno what lists of Yanmega/Zong you're trying, but I've seen them work quite well.

And of course, this isn't rude at all.

lolganium said:
i dont mind, if you wanna play sludge and lose thats your problem... have fun going 1-4 at every tourney (the one is the lucky donk you pull on a n00b btw)
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=/
 
Burninating_Torchic said:
Any deck that plays Pokemon with a coming into play power (Namely, Spiritomb), other than AMU, should play SSU.
And I dunno what lists of Yanmega/Zong you're trying, but I've seen them work quite well.

And of course, this isn't rude at all.



=/
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you already said you dont think its a good deck. if i wanted t be rude i would have, but you're jumping worse than you need to about this. i could have said you were completely brainless for thinking champ was any good, but i didnt, that would have been rude.
 
i really dont think it matters as a t1 gengar wrecks amu and proably machamp too if you can look into your opponents hand.
 
This is soo stupid. If kingdra can swarm, goes as fast as amu, and can win the matchup, I don't see how amu has ANY chance against a guy that OHKOs them for 1 energy while they take 2 turns to KO one champ. This is idiotic. G? Oh boy, I have to attach a 2nd energy and then level up. Plus champ X's attack lets it flip to live (with pp or buck's, another easy prize for the champ player), and then the champ player can go bonkers and, with a heads, can wreck the pixie with another energy drop (though its completely unnesicary, and I'd take another of his level X attack again). Honestly, theres no debate here. Machamp>>>>amu.
 
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