Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

BR Donk Report Thread

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CMsvW said:
I started to make a full response to Sandslash, but I thought "what's the point of responding to their every statement if they aren't gonna do the same for me?"

I get what you're saying and agree with most of it, but again, the only thing I'll say is this; to prove this format is broken, we don't NEED to play Sabledonk. The format can be proven to be broken without anyone even making that deck. If Sabledonk is your only solution to making a rotation, you're not looking at the big picture. (Which is, there's a lot more factors that go into making a rotation)
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You could have omitted that first statement, it serves no point in your post. In fact, it could be taken as derogatory.

Besides, the reason I didn't "respond to every statement you made." Is because I agreed with the other two paragraphs. I generally try to respond to most of what people post, but if I don't have an issue with it, why post saying: "+1 affirm" to 8/10 points?



Its good that we agree on these things. I also agree with you. We don't NEED to play Sabledonk to prove the format is broken.

BUT, its one of the fastest and most viable ways to do so, AND Its the perfect example of what is wrong with the format.


However, I don't think the format can be BROKEN by not making that deck. There is no evidence that there would be an example as great as Sabledonk without the presence of Sabledonk. That is a point with no support.


True, there are a lot of factors that go into a rotation.

Sabledonk is not the ONLY solution. Its just the best. And I would say that players HAVE been looking at the big picture. To argue that they are not defeats the whole purpose of WHY they play Sabledonk. They are looking at the big picture and saying: Sure, I may win (or lose, its a 65%win rate last time I looked for Sabledonk), but in the end I'll influence the higher-ups to change the format, making it better for everyone. If that's not the big picture, I don't know what is.

Besides, if people are playing Sabledonk for the WINS, it would be better for them to NOT play Sabledonk so that the format does not change, and then go win Nats and Worlds with the deck.


I look forward to your reply.
 
amphachu said:
If you would actually read the reason to playing Sabledonk, you would see that it isn't to win, but to prove a point. Everyone is playing it because they want a better format for Nationals and Worlds which are far more important than a Battle Roads.
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You say it's for a better meta for Nats...alright, fine. I'm not talking about Nats, I'm talking about self-respect. Are you telling me Sabldonk players feel good about themselves? "Sableye Master" said he played it, and he said he felt "bad" about donking his opponents. As my sig says, I've made second place States and second place Regionals, and I earned them by playing to the BEST of my ability, and I can tell you now I didn't have to donk to earn it. If I had played Sabldonk and went as far as I did, I wouldn't feel I had earned it. I'm not talking about format, deck-choice, or rankings, I'm talking about the two most ignored and diminished yet loved things in this game we all play: Spirit of the Game and self-respect. Can you tell me that's strengthened by playing Sabldonk? Tell you what, instead of showing Play!Pokemon how bad the format is, why don't you show Play!Pokemon that the people playing this game have an ounce of SOTG in them and NOT play Sabldonk? Do me a favor before you reply, don't talk about how I haven't talked about format, but about the players themselves, and what I'm saying. Thank you.
 
the fact that this conversation, that this THREAD, even exists...is proof that a rotation needs to happen
 
There is nothing illegal, morally wrong, or anti-SOTG about playing Sabledonk.

Let's not make up rules or restrictions in our own heads and expect other people to go by them.

It is not the players fault that Sabledonk is a viable deck, it happened because an old card ended up in a format that wasn't designed for it.

And that's why we need a rotation.
 
I am sorry so many of you are unhappy with the current format, don't like sabledonk, and want a rotation. I understand and appreciate your unhappiness. I'm just looking forward to judging this weekend, and I hope every match has sabledonk so we can get 4 swiss and a cut done in 15 minutes.

I'm really not that insensitive, I'm just kidding, but from a judge perspective, it will be interesting to see how the games in my area go.

Good luck everyone.
 
Excalibar said:
You say it's for a better meta for Nats...alright, fine. I'm not talking about Nats, I'm talking about self-respect. Are you telling me Sabldonk players feel good about themselves? "Sableye Master" said he played it, and he said he felt "bad" about donking his opponents. As my sig says, I've made second place States and second place Regionals, and I earned them by playing to the BEST of my ability, and I can tell you now I didn't have to donk to earn it. If I had played Sabldonk and went as far as I did, I wouldn't feel I had earned it. I'm not talking about format, deck-choice, or rankings, I'm talking about the two most ignored and diminished yet loved things in this game we all play: Spirit of the Game and self-respect. Can you tell me that's strengthened by playing Sabldonk? Tell you what, instead of showing Play!Pokemon how bad the format is, why don't you show Play!Pokemon that the people playing this game have an ounce of SOTG in them and NOT play Sabldonk? Do me a favor before you reply, don't talk about how I haven't talked about format, but about the players themselves, and what I'm saying. Thank you.
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I totally understand what you're saying Excalibar, but there are a few problems with this thought. First, not everyone really cares about SOTG and self respect. No matter how much we wish it were the case, players won't joyfully give up the opportunity to donk for SOTG or to make some kind of statement. So even if they don't play Sabledonk but still play 4 Sableye and end up with the donk, you can bet they're going to take it (and to the other player, it looks like they got "sabledonked" anyway). Second, a lot of players enjoy playing Sabledonk. This might differ with what Sableye Master said, but it's true. A lot of players enjoy the cards, they like running the risk, and it quenches their speed lust when they go through their whole deck in a single turn. They also may feel like they earned each and every donk with a meticulously crafted deck that they spent a lot of time on. Last, you can't fault people for playing fast decks, nor can you expect people to ignore the metagame for some greater SOTG "cause." I mean, I'm with you on SOTG, but like most competitive players I'm going to tailor my deck so that it gives me the best chance to win. With first turn trainers, tossing 4 Sableye into lists is a solid metagame choice. And when those 4 Sableye win games on the first turn, it's not a question of SOTG or anything, it's solid proof that the format itself is screwed up and definitely creates an overwhelmingly frustrating environment.

Also, is anyone else tired of reading match after match in tournament reports that describe how the game was won in a single turn?
 
I played 5 fun games with sabledonk against luxchomp:
game 1: i got sabledonked
game 2: i have 3 dual balls, flip 6 tails
game 3: get donked
game 4: get donked
game 5: flip 5 tails on SSU, and 2 dual balls.
 
PokeDad said:
I am sorry so many of you are unhappy with the current format, don't like sabledonk, and want a rotation. I understand and appreciate your unhappiness. I'm just looking forward to judging this weekend, and I hope every match has sabledonk so we can get 4 swiss and a cut done in 15 minutes.

I'm really not that insensitive, I'm just kidding, but from a judge perspective, it will be interesting to see how the games in my area go.

Good luck everyone.
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I'm judging one on Sunday. Maybe we should start a "How fast did your tournament go?" thread. LOL jk
 
I actually didn't participate in any donks at the BR I went to. Surprised me. Actually liking the format, although I see why it needs to change, and think it should change.
 
deogg said:
I'm judging one on Sunday. Maybe we should start a "How fast did your tournament go?" thread. LOL jk
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I'm judging on Saturday and taking notes. :) How many Sableye decks played, how many matches done in under 10 minutes, etc. I'll post it here afterward.
 
I donked 4 rounds in a row in swiss (4 round of swiss total) . Ended up getting donked in top 2, games 2 and 3

Whole thing seems kinda janky. Can't wait for the new format. My local (non-sanctioned) tourney is switching over as soon as BR is over to get a jump on the new format.
 
Sandslash7 said:
You could have omitted that first statement, it serves no point in your post. In fact, it could be taken as derogatory.

Besides, the reason I didn't "respond to every statement you made." Is because I agreed with the other two paragraphs. I generally try to respond to most of what people post, but if I don't have an issue with it, why post saying: "+1 affirm" to 8/10 points?



Its good that we agree on these things. I also agree with you. We don't NEED to play Sabledonk to prove the format is broken.

BUT, its one of the fastest and most viable ways to do so, AND Its the perfect example of what is wrong with the format.


However, I don't think the format can be BROKEN by not making that deck. There is no evidence that there would be an example as great as Sabledonk without the presence of Sabledonk. That is a point with no support.


True, there are a lot of factors that go into a rotation.

Sabledonk is not the ONLY solution. Its just the best. And I would say that players HAVE been looking at the big picture. To argue that they are not defeats the whole purpose of WHY they play Sabledonk. They are looking at the big picture and saying: Sure, I may win (or lose, its a 65%win rate last time I looked for Sabledonk), but in the end I'll influence the higher-ups to change the format, making it better for everyone. If that's not the big picture, I don't know what is.

Besides, if people are playing Sabledonk for the WINS, it would be better for them to NOT play Sabledonk so that the format does not change, and then go win Nats and Worlds with the deck.


I look forward to your reply.
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Seeing as how you told me I didn't know what I was taking about, to read a press-release 3 times, and making accusations about how I form my "world views"; I can't help but think that I came out on the worst side of this.

Ok? I've agreed with lots of points in this thread, and I made it atleast semi-clear when I did. Can't read your mind. When you're telling me all the negative things that you said, I am gonna presume that you do not agree with me at all. Agreeing with most my points and then telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about? I dun get it

I can't help but think that the bare knowledge that a deck like Sabledonk can exist is enough to make this format change. While I agree that having a few place may help prove a point, having some tourneys with 25-40% of the players playing Sabledonk is complete overkill and may actually hurt the point altogether. I mean, if so many people run the deck, couldn't you theoretically say that it's mere mass of people playing the deck is what causes it to win so much as opposed to it being format breaking?

I'm sure there are some players playing Sabledonk who are doing it for the right reason. I personally really doubt that it's the majority. Most players aren't going to Nats anyway, some people (Sadly too many) get pleasure from winning with donk decks (I mean, there always seemed to be an Uxiedonk player or 2 in every tourney I went to), and I really doubt most of the younger players running Sabledonk care about the health or the format. Out of the 3 Sabledonk players I talked to at the BRs (Yes, I know a small sample size, but still) I went, not a single one was running it for "noble reasons"; 2 of them told me it was out of fear, they thought it would be everywhere and didn't wanna lose every match and the other 1 wasn't even into Pokemon, he was just there with a friend, running the deck for something to do.

The idea of Sabledonk players being nobel and only doing it for the health of the game is what's annoying me the most. For every player who's playing the deck for the right reasons, there's easily 2-3 who are playing it for all the wrong.

Believe it or not, BRs are pretty competitive and the players do want to win. Of course, it's no where near the bigger competitions, but that doesn't stop people from trying to take home the gold. Deep down in most of us Pokemon players is a competitive spirit and, even in games for fun, we wanna be the very best :v Like I said before, Most players at these battle roads aren't going to Nats, so winning at a smaller tourney is pretty appealing.

I'm sorry if I came off as rude or insensitive in my previous posts. It's been a while since something so trivial has gotten me so edgy. I really want a format change...and I want to enjoy BRs. I don't think that's too crazy of a thing to aim for :p
 
Even if Sabledonk were to crash and burn for the rest of BRs, they'd still rotate.

What's our threat to them? Obscenely low attendance figures.

Do we need the threat? Not really. Even if people show up for nats regardless of the lack of rotation, people would lose all trust for P!P. To say that they might do something which the vast majority of players want, and then decide not to would permanently destroy their reputation, or do so for at least a full season.

The "listening to results" thing is a pretense (one of which I approve). They're going to rotate. Quote me on it.
 
It seems from what I hear that attendance numbers are way down at BRs. I would like to hear from around the country on whether this seems to be true. I know lots of people all over who do not plan on playing in any. I played in one but don't see myself playing in more than maybe one more. We would normally play in at least six each season.
 
CMsvW said:
I'm sure there are some players playing Sabledonk who are doing it for the right reason. I personally really doubt that it's the majority. Most players aren't going to Nats anyway, some people (Sadly too many) get pleasure from winning with donk decks (I mean, there always seemed to be an Uxiedonk player or 2 in every tourney I went to), and I really doubt most of the younger players running Sabledonk care about the health or the format. Out of the 3 Sabledonk players I talked to at the BRs (Yes, I know a small sample size, but still) I went, not a single one was running it for "noble reasons"; 2 of them told me it was out of fear, they thought it would be everywhere and didn't wanna lose every match and the other 1 wasn't even into Pokemon, he was just there with a friend, running the deck for something to do.

The idea of Sabledonk players being nobel and only doing it for the health of the game is what's annoying me the most. For every player who's playing the deck for the right reasons, there's easily 2-3 who are playing it for all the wrong.

Believe it or not, BRs are pretty competitive and the players do want to win. Of course, it's no where near the bigger competitions, but that doesn't stop people from trying to take home the gold. Deep down in most of us Pokemon players is a competitive spirit and, even in games for fun, we wanna be the very best :v Like I said before, Most players at these battle roads aren't going to Nats, so winning at a smaller tourney is pretty appealing.

I'm sorry if I came off as rude or insensitive in my previous posts. It's been a while since something so trivial has gotten me so edgy. I really want a format change...and I want to enjoy BRs. I don't think that's too crazy of a thing to aim for :p
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And I'm sorry if I came off rude as well. I apologize for that.

About Sabledonk for noble reasons: There are definitely some players who are not doing it for those reasons. The ones I've talked to, however, are.

I don't think that you have your ratio's right (in fact I'd say it would be 2-3 noble vs 1-2 unnoble), but thats speculation on my part, based on what I've seen/heard around the environment.

Oh yeah, I would definitely also agree that BRs are competitive, and the only time I can actually compete (since I'm away at college and miss the other events, but am still in contact with players who attend citys/regs etc)

I agree, I want a format change and want to enjoy BRs as well. The way you were putting your arguments made it seem like you were out of touch with the issue.
 
Understandable. I completely fail at wording things most of the time. I typically type the way I would say something...which doesn't exactly translate well. :< Awesome. All is good now, now I feel little less insane.
 
jrwaxman said:
It seems from what I hear that attendance numbers are way down at BRs. I would like to hear from around the country on whether this seems to be true. I know lots of people all over who do not plan on playing in any. I played in one but don't see myself playing in more than maybe one more. We would normally play in at least six each season.
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At the 2 BRs that have been held in our area so far, this is how they compared to their Fall battle roads. Not quite sure about exact attendance, but the drop was significant enough to make for less rounds and less cut

Denville, NJ

Fall BR: 4 rounds top 4
Spring: 4 Rounds top 2

Nanuet, NY

Fall BR: 5 Rounds Top 4
Spring BR: 4 Rounds Top 4

and in Seniors

Fall: 5 Rounds Top 4
Spring: 3 Rounds no cut
 
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eriknance said:
I totally understand what you're saying Excalibar, but there are a few problems with this thought. First, not everyone really cares about SOTG and self respect. No matter how much we wish it were the case, players won't joyfully give up the opportunity to donk for SOTG or to make some kind of statement. So even if they don't play Sabledonk but still play 4 Sableye and end up with the donk, you can bet they're going to take it (and to the other player, it looks like they got "sabledonked" anyway). Second, a lot of players enjoy playing Sabledonk. This might differ with what Sableye Master said, but it's true. A lot of players enjoy the cards, they like running the risk, and it quenches their speed lust when they go through their whole deck in a single turn. They also may feel like they earned each and every donk with a meticulously crafted deck that they spent a lot of time on. Last, you can't fault people for playing fast decks, nor can you expect people to ignore the metagame for some greater SOTG "cause." I mean, I'm with you on SOTG, but like most competitive players I'm going to tailor my deck so that it gives me the best chance to win. With first turn trainers, tossing 4 Sableye into lists is a solid metagame choice. And when those 4 Sableye win games on the first turn, it's not a question of SOTG or anything, it's solid proof that the format itself is screwed up and definitely creates an overwhelmingly frustrating environment.

Also, is anyone else tired of reading match after match in tournament reports that describe how the game was won in a single turn?
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Yes, it is a sad state of affairs when SOTG is spoken of in a longing sense, isn't it? I'm not faulting people for playing fast decks or teching there deck as you mentioned, in fact I've been playing SP's for two years(Including Luxchomp, a Dialga version, etc.) and they are incredibly fast decks. I'm getting after people who run donk decks. And while Sabldonk does take skill to run(believe me, as an avid SP player I know how wonderful it is to be called "Unskillful"), it is MINIMAL when compared with the skill necessary to run decks such as last season's Plox or Cursegar. And for all of those interested, HGSS on sounds like a TON of fun to me, but I'm just not sure I want it for Nats and Worlds.
 
Box of Fail said:
Even if Sabledonk were to crash and burn for the rest of BRs, they'd still rotate.

What's our threat to them? Obscenely low attendance figures.

Do we need the threat? Not really. Even if people show up for nats regardless of the lack of rotation, people would lose all trust for P!P. To say that they might do something which the vast majority of players want, and then decide not to would permanently destroy their reputation, or do so for at least a full season.

The "listening to results" thing is a pretense (one of which I approve). They're going to rotate. Quote me on it.
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Will do, just check the sig :D, just kiddin but I agree with you whole heartedly. Can't wait a few more days for the announcement.
 
Attendance is an issue here in Western Washington. At one we had a total of 22 people show up, another 30 and the third 25 with over half of each dropping out after 2 to 3 rounds. It just is not fun at all right now. The only reason I am going is in hopes of winning a playmat thats all I want and with numbers dwindling I have a good chance of winning one as a random door prize.
 
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