Foreign language cards in 2010-2011 MD-on?

[toxictaipan]

And here lies the other fault -- that you believe you know far more about the show than the people actually running the show.

You do not. Stop acting like you do.

That's not what I was really trying to say.

No, I don't know far more about running the show than the people doing so. But I sure as hell know what I want to see in the show.

I understand that excess use of foreign cards causes disruption in tournaments. But it was only a problem because foreign cards were so popular. Why did people start using foreign cards?

Better quality?

Better rare distribution?

Cheaper price?

Something else?

All of the above?


I don't know. But what I do know is, is that if TPCi fixed whatever the reason was (easier said than done, I know), they wouldn't even have to ban foreign cards. Hell, the ban would make more sense in that case, since players wouldn't even have a valid reason for using foreign cards.


Yeah, judges, tournament organizers, and TPCi know more about running events and the issues that arise during tournaments. So what? The consumers (players) know more about what they want to see in the product and in the game. So, you tell me, whose opinion is more valid?


The 10% compromise was fair. I would really like to see it stick around. Too bad it won't.

 

[PokePop]

Anybody who posts any criticism of TPCI is immediately ridiculed by the staff

I think that's an unfair statement. Staff mostly is comprised of TOs and Judges. As such, they have a different perspective than players.
Often the criticism of TPCi doesn't take into account "bigger picture" issues, and if staff brings those up to counter or inform the criticism, I don't see that as a bad thing.

What is so bad about 10% that it has to go and there is no room for discussion about the merits of keeping it?

Personally, I wouldn't mind if 10% stayed around. It hasn't been the problem this year that it was the year before when there was no 10% rule. On the other hand, I don't think POP is open to reconsidering it. I've noticed that they've stopped publishing card dex references for the new sets.

What are the likely effects on prices of cards printed in English?

Practically zero.
I don't think that POP looked at this as a monetary issue, regardless of people presenting that as the reason.

 

[nardd]

"It's not like banning foreign cards ends this issue, as people will still need the card-dex for reprinted cards with major texts changes."

This seems like a valid point to me. I understand that getting rid of the foreign cards isolates card-dex to erratas/etc rather than both combined, but to me it just seems like the same thing.

I would like to see the 10% rule stay as well, even though I don't use any foreign cards (though I've got some sweet french SF ones...) I personally don't really mind, since it's rare in my experience to face any foreign cards anyway and when it does come up, I expect a translation from my opponent.

I'm also not seeing how a card's text on a sheet of paper is any more confusing to a new player than a card they aren't familiar with anyway. Half the time the foreign card is one they will either see a lot of and/or use if they continue to improve in the game.

 

[SteveP]

I think TPCi drew a "line in the sand" and won't back down due to a few players who abused the foreign card rule. As one who used Japanese cards in moderation, I feel a bit victimized due to a few who were unable to back-down on the other side of the "line in the sand."

There are some out there who are even disgusted with 10% - nothing but 100% will satisfy them. Those are the ones we need to focus our ire on -- both sides of this 10% debate.

 

[Jeremy Badeaux]

Because we are weary of the endless stream of complaints from this vocal minority that have little to no value. If the complainers were truly that fed up with the state of the game, they would vote with their wallets. But instead they stay, solely because they enjoy hearing themselves complain, and think the rest of us enjoy listening.

That's right, anybody with an opinion other than yours should just stay quiet.
Hey look! Another prof telling people to quit the game.
Hurray for profs taking an active role in trying to hurt the game they are supposedly helping.

You vastly overstate your worth.

The majority of us have no problem with these changes. An insignificant percentage of complainers leaving is not going to impact revenue or event attendance.

It may not impact revenue on a large scale, but unless you plan on personally buying every pack that those players would have bought, then you are using seriously flawed logic.

Also, epic win for thinking that if every single person who ever had any issue with TPCI were to quit the game, there wouldn't be any impact.
Seriously, how many less PTO's, TO's, Profs, or even league leaders would there be if everybody who ever had any issue with TPCI just quit the game?
Guess who is really the one overstating their worth...
lol

Because it does not accomplish the goal. The goal was to eliminate Japanese cards. They put off the goal for a year so as not to greatly upset that same vocal minority.

The discussion was a year ago. You are late to the party in complaining now.

I actually pointed that out in the first place, but thank you for repeating it back to me.
How does time make the difference between a discussion and complaining?

And here lies the other fault -- that you believe you know far more about the show than the people actually running the show.

You do not. Stop acting like you do.

Here lies the fault that has already been identified.
You want every person who disagrees with you to quit the game (even though your stated purpose as a prof is to promote growth).
You don't think anybody should be allowed to discuss something that you don't want discussed.

You are nothing but a troll.
Thanks for proving my point about that whole, "echo chamber" thing though. :lol:


Pokepop, I really hope they aren't stopping card dex since they will still be needed for older version of legal cards and whatnot.

Personally, I don't play any foreign cards and I doubt that I would have much interest in doing so.
As much as it blows some people's minds that this doesn't boil down to us vs. them, it really doesn't make a difference to me, but if people want to discuss the merits of something, then why shouldn't they be able to?

I really hate that this topic is changing from what people think about something into whether people should be allowed to even have an opinion.

 

[MattPL]

yes. they currently 'count' towards the 10%, so why wouldn't they be banned as well?

'mom

I don't like that rule. They say energy at the top just like any english basic does. I suppose if you weren't using sleeves then it would be a problem because of the different card back.

But I'm probably just complaining because I just bought a lot of basic energy from the Arceus Movie Set and now I can't use them in Premier Events :nonono:

 

[Chairman Kaga]

That's right, anybody with an opinion other than yours should just stay quiet.
Hey look! Another prof telling people to quit the game.
Hurray for profs taking an active role in trying to hurt the game they are supposedly helping.

And how are you helping? Do you seriously think venting in a public forum is somehow improving things?

It may not impact revenue on a large scale, but unless you plan on personally buying every pack that those players would have bought, then you are using seriously flawed logic.

And how many packs do those players buy, exactly? In my experience, those players do not purchase sealed product and pray, or at least do so very infrequently. Instead, they purchase their exact needs from an after-market vendor. So in truth, there is almost zero loss of revenue.

How does time make the difference between a discussion and complaining?

Because the matter is closed. It was closed a year ago. Do you think you are bringing entirely new evidence to the table in the hopes of reopening the case? Because you aren't.

Continuing to complain about this topic is simply doing it for the sake of complaining.

Here lies the fault that has already been identified.
You want every person who disagrees with you to quit the game (even though your stated purpose as a prof is to promote growth).
You don't think anybody should be allowed to discuss something that you don't want discussed.

I don't want people to quit the game -- I want complainers to shut the hell up. And unfortunately, the only way they'll do that is if they walk away.

Do you think TPCI is swayed by public rantings? There are appropriate channels for lodging these complaints, but the complainers never use them, because it has nothing to do with improving anything, and everything to do with being heard by the largest audience. This is the inane mentality of the Internet and the new media in action. It used to be that when we disliked something, we would simply forego it, but now we hang around and tell everyone on Facebook how much it sucks. It is masochism on a grand scale. It is launching a trial in the court of public opinion. It is the favored resort of the debater who has no standing -- simply get enough people to take up torches and pitchforks with you and you can enact any change you desire through force.

This is what I'm tired of listening to.

You are nothing but a troll.

Takes one to know one.

 

[toxictaipan]

This is what I'm tired of listening to.

Then why are you continuing to read these threads?


This is a discussion forum. We are discussing the foreign card ban. If you do not wish to read or be a part of this discussion, you should leave this discussion.

 

[Chairman Kaga]

Then why are you continuing to read these thread?

Because I keep hoping beyond hope that someone will listen to rational thought.

But thanks for reminding me that this is the Internet I'm dealing with.

 

[toxictaipan]

Because I keep hoping beyond hope that someone will listen to rational thought.

But thanks for reminding me that this is the Internet I'm dealing with.

What rational thought? That what's done is done and we should just accept the ban? Not to express our opinions on the matter on a public discussion forum, because in the long run it won't really matter since we aren't using the proper channels?


TPCi made their decision and that's final. So let's just smile, eat our vegetables, and pretend like we like them.


Seems rational.

 

[DukeFireBird]

the issue is that the discussions were a year ago. The issue is dealt with and done. It will take alot to have tPCI review the situation, but I doubt it will be done. They gave us a timeline to adapt our decks to, and that timeline is coming up very quickly. Those who did not heed it are not going to be happy.

Believe me when I say that I am in the group that was not happy with the foreign card ban, as alot of my collection of DP on was Japanese. Luckily, I didnt buy any more product after the RR set was released (funny, that was when they announced the ban).

Am I saying to like it? NO.
All that I am saying is that you were given time to change, and if you didn't...sucks to be you.

And for those of you who assumed a PT-on format and kept your MD-on foreign cards, better get to replacing if you wanna use em.

 

[PokePop]

And how are you helping? Do you seriously think venting in a public forum is somehow improving things?

Ummmm....
That's kinda what we're here for Kaga... :wink:

I don't think anyone, on either side of a discussion, should claim such high ground that it puts them in the position of figuratively looking down on everyone else in the discussion.

There are, in fact, valid points on both sides that are indeed worth discussing.
And that's what we are here for, after all.

 

[tomoyosfan1]

I understand that excess use of foreign cards causes disruption in tournaments. But it was only a problem because foreign cards were so popular. Why did people start using foreign cards?

Better quality?

Better rare distribution?

Cheaper price?

Something else?

All of the above?


I don't know. But what I do know is, is that if TPCi fixed whatever the reason was (easier said than done, I know), they wouldn't even have to ban foreign cards. Hell, the ban would make more sense in that case, since players wouldn't even have a valid reason for using foreign cards.

I felt that this point needed to be brought up. Better distribution and cheaper secondary market prices (which I assume you are referring to) have both happened. Since the 10% rule, we've started seeing a lot more Lv.Xs in a box and you get close to a full prime set per box. We've also seen all the staples that people claimed they needed in Japanese, due to the English versions' price, reprinted as League promos. After doing all this, people are still complaining, even though the main problems have been addressed. In that way, I suppose you give evidence for why we need the ban now, since the main reasons for using foreign cards (at least the main ones brought up last year) have been solved.

 

[homeofmew]

Me any My friends were Kinda joking around since one of them may go to Japan, and I am like you know you ca't play English cards over there right? They were like really? I was like yeah but if it just league they MAY allow it I am not sure :/.

Anyway Will Japanese/ Foreign cards be allowed for league world wide?

 

[SteveP]

From a player's perspective, the only valid argument to allow Japanese cards is to give players a choice. To argue about quality, cost, etc., is a losing battle, IMO.

From a TO/judge's perspective, the only valid argument to disallow Japanese cards is to prevent disruption. To argue about the impact on TPCi revenue is a losing battle, IMO.

So, does 10% satisfy the players with enough choice, and at the same time, satisfy TOs/judges with an acceptable level of disruption? To me, it seems like a nice "push-shove" compromise.

 

[Lawman]

As a PTO/HJ of many tourneys (including Nats)/LL and a part time player with 2 boys that play, I saw 1st hand all the issues many of you have raised in this thread. 'Pop is in a similar boat. We HAVE seen the disruption of an all-japanese deck in the USA. I was and still remain ag'st an all japanese deck in America. But, since my family also collects and plays, I found it easier and cheaper to guarantee full sets and card staples to play with by using some japanese product. I was all for a limit on the use of foreign cards.

I like the 10% rule. To be honest with you, I thought for sure that the 100% ban would be on last year when they 1st announced it. So many good reasons to have an outright ban. And no, it isnt a money grab, as alleged by many here, by TPCi. Since that time, at least in the last few sets, distribution of the X's and now Legards are better and I see many a player walk away from a PR with at least 1 Prime and a Legend piece too. This is good for the game IMO.

The problem that remains is the price rush on uber cards like Lux X and now, Uxie X (post rotation announcement) bc those sets didnt have a great distribution of X's in them in America. So, those cards are HTF and no one wants to part with one cheaply. Then, when you find a sealed box of RR (for Lux), it goes for about $100 bucks or more online. For that price, you get about a 20% chance of pulling 1, yes 1, Lux X. Not good odds. Might as well pay the 70-80 bucks BIN on eBay and guarantee the Lux X. Now, TPCi OP fixed some of the escalation of prices on staples like Uxie and Claydol this past yr by making them league promos. Would they ever consider that for Lux X??? I dont know. Make it a tin?? Possible, but not likely (although they would sell a ton of tins that way!).

Bottom line is this. OP announced a proposed 100% ban last year. They allowed a vetting time to allow all sides to be heard. It was discussed @ the PTO Conf. (cannot divulge what WAS said there though). After ALL of that....OP brass made the call to go with 10% for 1 year. I applauded that move then and still do. Time to move on folks. I dont want anyone to quit, but the time line has been in place and actions taken by TPCI OP since then with reliance on the 100% ban starting Sept. 1, 2010.

Keith

---------- Post added 06/16/2010 at 01:07 PM ----------

@Tina/HomeofMew: The ban only works at premier events. League should still be OK, unless the LL takes them away.

 

[Jeremy Badeaux]

Because I keep hoping beyond hope that someone will listen to rational thought.

But thanks for reminding me that this is the Internet I'm dealing with.

Just to clarify your side of this (to help everybody understand what rational thought is).
You went out of your way to click on a topic that you wouldn't like, read the whole thing, and then proceeded to tell people that they have no right to have an opinion.
By golly, that seems like the definition of rational to me.

As for lawman.
I would love to see Lux X released in some other manner to bring the cost back down to reasonable levels.
I do applaud TPCI for bringing the rarity ratios back down to earth and out of yugioh territory (a 20% chance of pulling a staple from a box is pretty terrible), but the damage has been done and the announced rotation means that everybody gets to deal with that damage for at least one more year.

I really like how TPCI handled league promos to drop the price of certain rare cards.
Between the rotation and the ban on Japanese cards, I don't see the next year as being a very good time for any new player to start playing.

I've seen decks with a stupid number of Japanese cards in them too, but I don't think anybody in their right mind should be fighting for a 100% rule.
10% is a nice little number and it would have been nice if it had stayed, but (regardless of the merits) it's going away.

 

[ryanvergel]

And how are you helping? Do you seriously think venting in a public forum is somehow improving things?

How can you even make that statement after the "complaining" as you call it last year GOT A CHANGE TO BE MADE!?

Worst. Post. Ever. You want people to listen to rational discussion?

Stop trolling then.

---------- Post added 06/16/2010 at 06:24 PM ----------

And how many packs do those players buy, exactly? In my experience, those players do not purchase sealed product and pray, or at least do so very infrequently. Instead, they purchase their exact needs from an after-market vendor. So in truth, there is almost zero loss of revenue.

Makes no sense. The after-market vendors buy the product to sell to those people. if those people no longer bought the after-market cards, the vendors would not buy the product originally.

I see the same horrible points over and over. Did you just look up every refuted point on the old thread and want to try them again and hope we didn't notice how silly you sounded?

---------- Post added 06/16/2010 at 06:30 PM ----------

And how are you helping? Do you seriously think venting in a public forum is somehow improving things?



And how many packs do those players buy, exactly? In my experience, those players do not purchase sealed product and pray, or at least do so very infrequently. Instead, they purchase their exact needs from an after-market vendor. So in truth, there is almost zero loss of revenue.



Because the matter is closed. It was closed a year ago. Do you think you are bringing entirely new evidence to the table in the hopes of reopening the case? Because you aren't.

Continuing to complain about this topic is simply doing it for the sake of complaining.



I don't want people to quit the game -- I want complainers to shut the hell up. And unfortunately, the only way they'll do that is if they walk away.

Do you think TPCI is swayed by public rantings? There are appropriate channels for lodging these complaints, but the complainers never use them, because it has nothing to do with improving anything, and everything to do with being heard by the largest audience. This is the inane mentality of the Internet and the new media in action. It used to be that when we disliked something, we would simply forego it, but now we hang around and tell everyone on Facebook how much it sucks. It is masochism on a grand scale. It is launching a trial in the court of public opinion. It is the favored resort of the debater who has no standing -- simply get enough people to take up torches and pitchforks with you and you can enact any change you desire through force.

This is what I'm tired of listening to.



Takes one to know one.

1. yes, they are. We have seen numerous changes to the game via the public's voice. Having people agree with you makes a point stronger. It makes sense to discuss things in this manner.
2. It seems like the only people who grab the torches and troll are the people like you and others who constantly wish to do things like tag the thread "TPCI can't win" and such. Look in a mirror.
3. I think you're misappropriating some feelings towards people in this thread. We've only given solid argumentation, and you've been nothing but disrespectful. You're a true troll. You have some stupid vendetta against people or a fashionable method and you take it out by making illogical statements and sly comments.

I'm tired of seeing "love it leave it" all over the place. Seriously, it's the most tired argument ever. Why don't you leave it? Leave this forum, this thread, whatever- you purposely come here to a discussion board knowing the topic and subsequent posts. If you really believed in the mentality you are asking us to subscribe to you wouldn't even be posting. Stop being a hypocrite or troll or whatever you're trying to be, please.


I'm not stupid. Do I think that they will change/reverse the decision? No. Does that mean that I shouldn't discuss that topic? Not at all. This thread was created for that very purpose.
Am I mad or something because I am unprepared? Not at all. Complaining about the bad decision is not the same as complaining about it affecting us NOW. Yeah, we had a year, and we all did what we needed to do to compensate. What does that have to do with this discussion whatsoever?

 

[MattPL]

Me any My friends were Kinda joking around since one of them may go to Japan, and I am like you know you ca't play English cards over there right? They were like really? I was like yeah but if it just league they MAY allow it I am not sure :/.

Anyway Will Japanese/ Foreign cards be allowed for league world wide?

This was my concern. I'm not sure how I feel about foreign players coming into worlds having to use a completely english deck. :nonono:

 

[PokePop]

This was my concern. I'm not sure how I feel about foreign players coming into worlds having to use a completely english deck. :nonono:

Worlds is not affected by this.