Foreign language cards in 2010-2011 MD-on?

[Jeremy Badeaux]

[And I feel that it is a problem.

Is there some reason that my opinion is less valid than yours?

Because you're acting like a troll?

I don't know how good for the game the foreign cards are, but I do think that seeing the Japanese cards is a great way of seeing how poor the quality of our local cards are, and I also think that foreign cards helped keep certain prices in check.

Like I said earlier though, TPCI can't win because their plans for next year come across as a slap in the face to a lot of players.
Hurray for smaller prizes, more expensive decks, and making the game less appealing to new players!
Also, with the current restrictions on topic tags, isn't it just the staff telling us what to think about topics? lol

 

[toxictaipan]

[And I feel that it is a problem.

Is there some reason that my opinion is less valid than yours?

Because your opinion uses flawed logic? Anyway, I 100% agree with Ryan, as usual.



I don't see how reading text on a Pokemon card is different from reading it on regular paper. Words are words. You read them.

I'll admit, the card-dex entries aren't very good. But that's TPCi's fault. Complain to them, make them fix 'em. It's not like banning foreign cards ends this issue, as people will still need the card-dex for reprinted cards with major text changes.

I also agree that we shouldn't have to use inferior product. Fact of the matter is, Japanese cards are much higher quality Pokemon cards. Why should I have to settle for cheap cards? TPCi wouldn't have to worry about profits if they made quality product. That's what happens when you make low quality stuff. People go elsewhere to buy what they want at a higher quality. The only one at fault for that is the manufacturer.


It doesn't clutter the play area. No more than anything else on the table. It's a piece of paper for God's sake. YOU CAN FOLD IT.


Now, that being said, I don't have an issue with the ban. I'm not complaining about it because I don't use Japanese cards. Mostly due to the fact that when I found out about them, the ban was soon announced.

However, I have a serious problem with some of the arguments being presented. Such crap logic needs to be called out on.

 

[yoyofsho16]

Everything Vergel says is dead-on. It's about quality. The US needs to make the cards like the JPN cards in quality (which somehow cost less despite having to be shipped overseas, despite being nicer).

 

[soxrcol]

quick question, can my TO allow foreign cards? or is it just no way jose?
I like my German energy gain... lol

 

[Jeremy Badeaux]

quick question, can my TO allow foreign cards? or is it just no way jose?
I like my German energy gain... lol

If he/she wants to allow them at non-sanctioned local events, he/she can do so.

Don't expect to use your German Energy gain at anything worth rating points though.

 

[SteveP]

As one who witnessed first-hand a player who showed up at a US Regionals event using 50+ Japanese cards, as a Judge, it was a disruption. At the time, I had never witnessed such a situation, and was a bit suspicious of the player's motive. Even though I now view Japanese decks (used by non-Japanese players) as less disruptive, I still think the 10% rule was a brilliant move.

I've read just about every argument supporting the use of Japanese cards, include numerous discussions about quality. None have convinced me that unlimited use of Japanese cards is a good thing for tournament play in the US. Nevertheless, I think going to the extreme of a 100% ban is also not a good thing for Pokemon players in general. 10% is the perfect compromise.

BTW, my Japanese foils also are susceptible the "curling" effect.

 

[Sabett]

BTW, my Japanese foils also are susceptible the "curling" effect.

Do they scratch when you open them up in the booster? Because ours do.

 

[Leaf]

I think a good compromise would be if they reinstated the 10% rule in some greater capacity (25% or something) and then made the only legal translations avalable in a book you had to buy or something. That way if money was a motivating factor, then it solves that motive, and it allows for an easy, consistent translation process for all players.

 

[ShuckleLVX]

I think we should be happy they backed off and gave us a year, and go back to enjoying the game.

If being unable to use foreign cards (which we were warned about a year ago) is so terrible that you can't continue to enjoy the game, then maybe this game isn't for you. Spirit of the Game.

 

[SteveP]

Do they scratch when you open them up in the booster? Because ours do.

I haven't checked. I'm not doubting that Japanese cards "might" be superior in some ways regarding quality, but I guess it's like comparing Japanese cars to ours. Sometimes, quality isn't as important to some people as "buying American." :thumb:

I'm definately not a strong advocate of "buying American." In fact, I prefer choices. I AM against those telling me that I'm being "unAmerican" if I buy Japanese.

 

[Jeremy Badeaux]

I think we should be happy they backed off and gave us a year, and go back to enjoying the game.

If being unable to use foreign cards (which we were warned about a year ago) is so terrible that you can't continue to enjoy the game, then maybe this game isn't for you. Spirit of the Game.

Seriously, I keep seeing this sentiment from professors.
You know what is awesome? For a professor to be telling people to stop playing pokemon.

Do professors like you even think about the implications of what you say?
"The heck with this whole customer thing. I don't like this guy, so he should just stop supporting the game."

Oh the irony of bringing up spirit of the game while telling customers to stop being customers.

That being said, I don't know how huge of a deal it will be to not be able to use any foreign cards, but I would have liked to see the 10% rule stick around (seemed like a good compromise).

It seems some people have a few things to be upset about this season, so we'll see how this next season goes and I guess we'll go from there.

Who knows Shuckle, maybe you'll get your wish and the game will lose most of the players who didn't agree with you.
Wouldn't that be great?

 

[ShuckleLVX]

Seriously, I keep seeing this sentiment from professors.
You know what is awesome? For a professor to be telling people to stop playing pokemon.

Do professors like you even think about the implications of what you say?
"The heck with this whole customer thing. I don't like this guy, so he should just stop supporting the game."

Oh the irony of bringing up spirit of the game while telling customers to stop being customers.

That being said, I don't know how huge of a deal it will be to not be able to use any foreign cards, but I would have liked to see the 10% rule stick around (seemed like a good compromise).

It seems some people have a few things to be upset about this season, so we'll see how this next season goes and I guess we'll go from there.

Who knows Shuckle, maybe you'll get your wish and the game will lose most of the players who didn't agree with you.
Wouldn't that be great?

So many people seem to have nothing good to say about the state of the game. "Woe is me, I can't use foreign cards." "Oh boy, Undaunted is a terrible set name." "Come on Pokemon, a 90 card set? Boo hoo!"

All I want is for people who seem to have nothing good to say to step back and look at themselves. Do you actually dislike the state of the game to the point you want to quit like so many claim, or do you just enjoy arguing dying points?

If a problem is so bad that you're going to quit, I am sorry to see you go, but it is what it is. If it's not that bad, well, you can live with it so please, just live with it. This decision was made for a year ago, and they consented to give us a grace period with the 10% rule. But made it is, so attacking my post will get you just as far as citing all last years arguments this year will. If the arguments were good enough to convince them to maintain the 10% rule, or even go back to no limitation, well, the points were made last year, so it would have happened then. Fact is, they decided they weren't, and that as they say is that.

If that is too painful to endure, you will quit. That's just how the world works.

 

[Jeremy Badeaux]

OK, let's look at this from a completely objective perspective.
As it stands, tags are nothing more than a tool for the staff to tell people what they should think about a given topic.
Professors (the people who are supposed to support the game) are telling people to quit if they don't like something.
Anybody who posts any criticism of TPCI is immediately ridiculed by the staff, told to quit by the profs, and no matter how valid their argument is, it's simply labeled as, "TPCI can't win", and "Sour grapes".

That is not discussion, that is an echo chamber.

If you go back and read my earlier posts, you will see that I am pretty critical of the people on both sides of this myself.
Why did everybody stop fighting for what they wanted for a year?
What is the argument for getting rid of 10%?
What will the effects of the action have on pricing of certain cards?

I went for valid points and I still believe that those are valid points.
Unfortunately, everybody else who is not supportive of 10% seems to like the mentality of, "if you don't like it then get out".
Pokemon is customer based.
If every person who dislikes any one thing that TPCI does just quits (as opposed to trying to discuss the matter), then I don't think there would be much of a future for this game.

What is wrong with open discussion?

Out of my three questions, only the one needing to be answered by the supporters of 10% has been answered.
That being the case, I will ask it again and I just have to hope that I get a response with some substance to it.

What is so bad about 10% that it has to go and there is no room for discussion about the merits of keeping it?

What are the likely effects on prices of cards printed in English?

 

[bullados]

About the percentage thing. It takes significant Staff time and effort above and beyond normal Judging duties to enforce a specific percentage of the deck in a local language. As a TO, I want my Judges focusing on card interactions and player complaints, not the policing of translations that shouldn't even exist in the local market anyway. Anything that takes time and concentration away from me and my staff enforcing the natural game rules, I will support.

As far as the 100% option, it's just intimidating for younger or newer players to have to play against a deck that they can't understand. Also, play space can be at a premium at certain venues and at certain events. Translations take up valuable table space at many venues, the policing of the accuracy of the translations takes time and attention away from the actual gameplay (as stated above), and, as an advocate of new player rights, I feel that foreign cards cause a distraction from actually playing the game, especially from younger or newer players.

 

[toxictaipan]

What people often seem to forget is that this is a Pokemon discussion forum. Players from all over the world come here to discuss all things Pokemon. Good and bad.

It's kinda silly that people (I think it's one of the mods... which would make it twice as ridiculous) are tagging EVERY thread with these stupid tags. I find it silly that we're told to quit playing the game. We don't want to quit playing the game, that's why we complain about it. We want to make it better (and who would know how to do that better than the players?).

Is that so bad?


This is a discussion, so let us discuss the matter. Don't tell us to quit every time someone complains about something.


It's absolutely ridiculous that every argument that speaks out against TPCi in any way is shot down with these kinds of attitudes. They aren't gods, so don't defend them like one.

 

[Jeremy Badeaux]

About the percentage thing. It takes significant Staff time and effort above and beyond normal Judging duties to enforce a specific percentage of the deck in a local language. As a TO, I want my Judges focusing on card interactions and player complaints, not the policing of translations that shouldn't even exist in the local market anyway. Anything that takes time and concentration away from me and my staff enforcing the natural game rules, I will support.

As far as the 100% option, it's just intimidating for younger or newer players to have to play against a deck that they can't understand. Also, play space can be at a premium at certain venues and at certain events. Translations take up valuable table space at many venues, the policing of the accuracy of the translations takes time and attention away from the actual gameplay (as stated above), and, as an advocate of new player rights, I feel that foreign cards cause a distraction from actually playing the game, especially from younger or newer players.

10% = 6 cards.
During deck checks, would enforcing that be any more complicated than any other number of rules?
If the number of foreign cards in the deck is greater than 6, than why shouldn't it be treated just like a deck with 6 Lux? Illegal is illegal.

I may have the wrong acronym for this, but doesn't TPCI stand for, "The Pokemon Company International"?
How can you say that international products from an international company have no place at events put on by said international company?
As for policing translations, if the player does not have the translation for the foreign cards, the player has an illegal deck (just like if he was running 12 unown g or had a magic: the gathering card in his deck).

I don't want the 100% option because that just leads to people trying to legally cause trouble (even though there are rules in place to nab people who do that).
I guess I don't entirely see the logic in banning foreign basic energy cards, but that is another topic altogether.

 

[Yoshi-]

OK, let's look at this from a completely objective perspective.
As it stands, tags are nothing more than a tool for the staff to tell people what they should think about a given topic.
Professors (the people who are supposed to support the game) are telling people to quit if they don't like something.
Anybody who posts any criticism of TPCI is immediately ridiculed by the staff, told to quit by the profs, and no matter how valid their argument is, it's simply labeled as, "TPCI can't win", and "Sour grapes".

That is not discussion, that is an echo chamber.

If you go back and read my earlier posts, you will see that I am pretty critical of the people on both sides of this myself.
Why did everybody stop fighting for what they wanted for a year?
What is the argument for getting rid of 10%?
What will the effects of the action have on pricing of certain cards?

I went for valid points and I still believe that those are valid points.
Unfortunately, everybody else who is not supportive of 10% seems to like the mentality of, "if you don't like it then get out".
Pokemon is customer based.
If every person who dislikes any one thing that TPCI does just quits (as opposed to trying to discuss the matter), then I don't think there would be much of a future for this game.

What is wrong with open discussion?

Out of my three questions, only the one needing to be answered by the supporters of 10% has been answered.
That being the case, I will ask it again and I just have to hope that I get a response with some substance to it.

What is so bad about 10% that it has to go and there is no room for discussion about the merits of keeping it?

What are the likely effects on prices of cards printed in English?

Thats the level of discussion and eflection you get on pokegym, get used to it, its pointless...

 

[xcfrisco]

I dont know what you guys are talking about...

these tags are hilarious! :lol:


I like the ban on foreign language cards starting from next season in the 2010-11 season

 

[SteveP]

To me, it's reasonable to allow players a choice, but at the same time, to impose limits. That's what Jeremy and others (including me) are advocates for. Zero-tolerance seems like a "knee-jerk" reaction by TOs/Judges who've experienced disruptions by those who've used excessive Japanese cards (I was one of those last year who over re-acted).

Last night, a friend of mine made a test deck that was 90% proxied, a deck he was playtesting for US Nats. There were numerous proxies that I had no idea what their stats were - it was a bit cumbersome to play against. It was very similiar to playing against a mostly Japanese deck. I truly understand how it can be disrupting to use cards that are unreadable. I just don't think 10% causes enough of a disruption to warrant zero-tolerance. Large quantities - YES!

 

[Chairman Kaga]

Professors (the people who are supposed to support the game) are telling people to quit if they don't like something.
Anybody who posts any criticism of TPCI is immediately ridiculed by the staff, told to quit by the profs, and no matter how valid their argument is, it's simply labeled as, "TPCI can't win", and "Sour grapes".

Because we are weary of the endless stream of complaints from this vocal minority that have little to no value. If the complainers were truly that fed up with the state of the game, they would vote with their wallets. But instead they stay, solely because they enjoy hearing themselves complain, and think the rest of us enjoy listening.

If every person who dislikes any one thing that TPCI does just quits (as opposed to trying to discuss the matter), then I don't think there would be much of a future for this game.

You vastly overstate your worth.

The majority of us have no problem with these changes. An insignificant percentage of complainers leaving is not going to impact revenue or event attendance.

What is so bad about 10% that it has to go and there is no room for discussion about the merits of keeping it?

Because it does not accomplish the goal. The goal was to eliminate Japanese cards. They put off the goal for a year so as not to greatly upset that same vocal minority.

The discussion was a year ago. You are late to the party in complaining now.

We don't want to quit playing the game, that's why we complain about it. We want to make it better (and who would know to do that better than the players?).

And here lies the other fault -- that you believe you know far more about the show than the people actually running the show.

You do not. Stop acting like you do.