Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

No scholarships and ONE trip for our nationals?

Status
Not open for further replies.
PA: the P!P guys have stated repeatedly that sales do not affect P!P funding. I don't agree with that decision, but that's what they put out there...
 
Ummm, ok, what does that have to do with anything I posted? I wasn't talking about sales of product (edit: boosters) in any of my posts. Can you clarify?
 
Last edited:
Let's stop trying to justify this...and tell the Canadians just to be happy with what they have.

I think, if the reduction was significant from previous years, the Canadians are going to be unhappy with the change in prizing.

Everyone is unhappy any time there is a reduction in prizes.

I am still stinging from the loss of scholarships at the NA Regional Events, but I have gotten over it, (OK, maybe not).

Vince
 
I don't understand why there's such a huge movement of players telling other players to be silent whenever they cut prizes.

We have a growing game - why are prizes being cut? "Be happy with it" is a ridiculous response that gets us as a community nowhere. Seriously, why is everyone so concerned about other people being discouraged with prize support loss?

I have played games with gradual prize support decrease, and the end result is not good. Pokémon has the advantage of being a well-supported franchise with incredible video games, an anime, and countless products. It is growing and will continue to grow with Pokémon X and Y - the potential for growth with OP support is much more. We need to take a lesson from Magic: TG and if this game's going anywhere, the community needs independent thinkers, not yes-men.
 
I don't know if you realize this, but here is the most destructive force for productive change: "It's always been done this way." Here's another: "Don't make too many waves." Or how about this one: "Be happy with what you got."

Vince, I hold you in the highest regard as a person, and as a former colleague (spelling?), but as much as I appreciate your post here, I find it just doesn't hold out much hope for the future. I have some very important questions that need to be asked, and hopefully you'll see I don't mean any personal offense to you or anyone else, but they need to be asked, just the same. How far are you ... or any one of you who read this thread willing to go to .... to accept prize losses before you say "ENOUGH!" Even if 'for now,' it's happening to other people, how long before it starts happening to you? Vince, I know you are partially protected from this due to your status as a PTO, but sooner or later, whether it affects people in your country or state, sooner or later it WILL affect you personally (perhaps through loss of income from your player base, who knows?). Certain Canadians here on this thread are finally at that point. Does their stand intimidate you, or cause you to worry about your own future? Does the possibility of either equality or at least parity on the part of other people make you feel concerned? Then perhaps now it's time to check your true motives when posting on this thread. Vince, you're one of the good guys, and smart too. How long do you think we can continue to go down this same road before disaster - even in your neck of the woods? Even with us Canadian "sheep" as some people call us, it looks like we can't take much more cuts. I hope these questions help everyone to re-evaluate your position. I'm sure between us we can find some common ground, and maybe even some creative solutions. I'd much rather be part of a solution than being part of the problem.
 
vegitalian said:
I don't understand why there's such a huge movement of players telling other players to be silent whenever they cut prizes.
Click to expand...

Huge movement?

This is Pokégym; I don't know if it remains one of the "representative" Pokémon boards, but even if it is the most representative board, we aren't dealing with that many people on either side. Otherwise it is largely human nature; when one side speaks out the other side(s) will speak up as well, lest they appear to be in agreement. This happens regardless of which (if either) side is correct.

Generalizing things less will help you reduce this confusion.

vegitalian said:
We have a growing game - why are prizes being cut? "Be happy with it" is a ridiculous response that gets us as a community nowhere. Seriously, why is everyone so concerned about other people being discouraged with prize support loss?
Click to expand...

We have a lousy economy... why is anyone playing this game at all? :lol:

I won't get into my mini-wall-of-text I almost posted here... but how familiar are you with the world of business and investments? If you've studied (or paid attention while participating in) either business or investing, then you should know that there are several justifiable (not pleasant, but justifiable) reasons for why Prize support is diminishing.

Some of us consider this, which is why we have been expecting it.

vegitalian said:
I have played games with gradual prize support decrease, and the end result is not good. Pokémon has the advantage of being a well-supported franchise with incredible video games, an anime, and countless products. It is growing and will continue to grow with Pokémon X and Y - the potential for growth with OP support is much more. We need to take a lesson from Magic: TG and if this game's going anywhere, the community needs independent thinkers, not yes-men.
Click to expand...

Declining Prize support is indeed a bad sign. You are correct in saying that. You also explained why it is less dangerous for Pokémon - cross promotion. A game that either is just a TCG or is primarily a TCG (like Magic: The Gathering) needs a good amount of Prizes to entice players to serious play, which in turn reinforces demand for the product they are selling and keeps their business going.

Pokémon isn't like that, because the TCG is a "side product". It needs not only to grow, but to be significantly profitable. The reason many of us grow annoyed at what we perceive as "whining" isn't because we worship the ground TPCi walks on, it is because we recognize that if we make the TCG a stench to the higher ups, it decreases the "value" of the TCG brand in their eyes. The money and resources invested into the TCG could always be reallocated elsewhere; besides possibly be more profitable, even just reducing the risk and hassles of having a TCG can make it tempting for a business.

tl;dr: Many of the concerns expressed in this thread are about things that we don't have enough information to properly discuss or that we have plausible reasons (even if unofficial) for understanding. Those seriously concerned about it should realize this is the wrong venue for discussing it; talking about this kind of thing on a message board is like whining in your break room at work. If you have serious concerns, start a petition or write in campaign.
 
P_A said:
Zeta, do you have a salient point, or are you all spam?
Click to expand...

And you can't seem to put

"Adam Orth"
"Always Online"
"#DealWithIt"

together?

You know, Xbox always online, deal with it on twitter? No? Huge outcry, and Adam Orth gets fired? You haven't heard of that news?

How many Canadians, who are going to the Nationals, are going with the flow, and dealing with it? Most would just not attend.
 
signofzeta said:
And you can't seem to put

"Adam Orth"
"Always Online"
"#DealWithIt"

together?

You know, Xbox always online, deal with it on twitter? No? Huge outcry, and Adam Orth gets fired? You haven't heard of that news?

How many Canadians, who are going to the Nationals, are going with the flow, and dealing with it? Most would just not attend.
Click to expand...

This might be a board that is more concerned with Nintendo than Microsoft... and too many people in this thread are name dropping.

Just sayin'. :lol:
 
signofzeta said:
And you can't seem to put

"Adam Orth"
"Always Online"
"#DealWithIt"

together?

You know, Xbox always online, deal with it on twitter? No? Huge outcry, and Adam Orth gets fired? You haven't heard of that news?

How many Canadians, who are going to the Nationals, are going with the flow, and dealing with it? Most would just not attend.
Click to expand...

Apparently not. I have a DS, a 3DS, a PSP, and various computers. No other systems. I actually have no interest in getting any other systems until Pokémon decides to get another handheld. So, no, I didn't put it together until you just posted.

However, although your post (in retrospect), and your point, seems a bit obscure, I'd like to compliment you on it anyway. I do realize SOME Canadians will continue to go to Nats even with no prizes - just for bragging rights. That doesn't mean the prospect will be good for growth. It just means that some people absolutely love to play pokemon even without prize support, that's all.

How about in your opinion zeta? How long does this trend have to go on before disaster? And how much would you be willing to give up before saying enough is enough?
 
P_A said:
Apparently not. I have a DS, a 3DS, a PSP, and various computers. No other systems. I actually have no interest in getting any other systems until Pokémon decides to get another handheld. So, no, I didn't put it together until you just posted.

However, although your post (in retrospect), and your point, seems a bit obscure, I'd like to compliment you on it anyway. I do realize SOME Canadians will continue to go to Nats even with no prizes - just for bragging rights. That doesn't mean the prospect will be good for growth. It just means that some people absolutely love to play pokemon even without prize support, that's all.

How about in your opinion zeta? How long does this trend have to go on before disaster? And how much would you be willing to give up before saying enough is enough?
Click to expand...

All I can say is, in Winnipeg, the game stores are all about Magic, and Yugioh. That's it. I guess TPCi doesn't want the TCG, in terms of the game itself, to grow and compete with the other TCG's out there. To me, if you don't live close to a large Canadian city, say goodbye to prereleases. I am unsure if there are any prereleases in Saskatchewan, but I highly doubt there are any Prereleases in Manitoba. In Winnipeg, people there are buying cards, but probably not playing them, because TPCi puts little effort to grow the game, unlike the Japanese people who created the TCG.

It only becomes disaster for TPCi when people realize they are being had. I mean, look at how xbox live pay to play online when competitors are free is doing. Still going strong, with the false belief that they have a better security and connection, when it is no different when you play on the competitor's system, at least from my experience anyway.

I hear arguments that it is OK for TPCi to put little effort in the TCG, because they have the video games, T-shirts, TV show, blah blah blah. Could you imagine the Sony Playstation, if that argument was true?

In 1996 to 2000, it was Sony Playstation vs Nintendo 64. Back then, Nintendo focused only on gaming, and was all about gaming. Sony focused on gaming, TV, music, so many things, and yet, the PS1 was the more popular system. Saying that Pokemon encompasses the video game, movie, TV show, and so many other merchandise, and MTG focuses on the TCG is no excuse for the Pokemon TCG to have little support and grow the game. That's why they should have a separate group of people handling different aspects of the Pokemon franchise.

I am pretty sure there are people who care about the TCG but not the VG and vice versa.

The Pokemon TCG has the added benefit of having Pokemon in it's name. Because of that, it doesn't mean that TPCi should be cheap and lazy and stop giving prizes to certain groups of people. Just like the Sony Playstation, it is a game console made by sony, and so is the N64, Sega Saturn, and, uh, Atari Jaguar. Pokemon TCG is a TCG just like Magic, Yugioh, WoW, and CF Vanguard.
 
Last edited:
signofzeta said:
All I can say is, in Winnipeg, the game stores are all about Magic, and Yugioh. That's it. I guess TPCi doesn't want the TCG, in terms of the game itself, to grow and compete with the other TCG's out there. To me, if you don't live close to a large Canadian city, say goodbye to prereleases. I am unsure if there are any prereleases in Saskatchewan, but I highly doubt there are any Prereleases in Manitoba. In Winnipeg, people there are buying cards, but probably not playing them, because TPCi puts little effort to grow the game, unlike the Japanese people who created the TCG.
Click to expand...

To my knowledge, there's also no PTOs in Saskatchewan or Manitoba. TPCI can't just air-drop in somebody who can run stuff. If you want there to be premier events there, either you yourself or get a store owner to apply to be a TO and start running tournaments. It's not fair to complain that there's no events, but do nothing to help any start.
 
Mystery Thing said:
To my knowledge, there's also no PTOs in Saskatchewan or Manitoba. TPCI can't just air-drop in somebody who can run stuff. If you want there to be premier events there, either you yourself or get a store owner to apply to be a TO and start running tournaments. It's not fair to complain that there's no events, but do nothing to help any start.
Click to expand...

that's cause nobody wants to start any, because the demand for the game is low. Imagine me starting the PTO, and I am the only one there, who is interested. Of course you need space, time, and money. All 3 of which I don't have.

There is a reason why MTG and Yugioh is played in more stores, and their events are held in more stores, because WOTC, and unsure about Konami, actively tries to spread the game, and make it easy for game stores to hold tournaments for MTG, and maybe Yugioh.

You put more effort in your product, you get a bigger return.

The official tournament locator is also a joke. I didn't know North Dakota was in Canada. The only way I can find Pokemon card shops is via WOTC's store locator, because it is more likely that a store that sells Pokemon TCG will also sell MTG, but not vice versa, but there are stores out there that sell Pokemon TCG, but not MTG, but since there's no locator, I wouldn't know about such stores, not like I play in any tournaments anyway. Or maybe such (un)official tournaments exist, but exist in some guy's basement, and there is no way of knowing who's basement it is, and where that basement is.

All I am saying is, the Pokemon TCG competitive scene is close to nothing in Saskatchewan and Manitoba. Hey, maybe if you lived in Manitoba or Saskatchewan, you won't have to travel as far to both Vancouver or Toronto. At least there is the Winnipeg Jets, Saskatchewan Roughriders, and the Winnipeg Blue Bombers... Bombers, oh woe is me.
 
Last edited:
signofzeta said:
that's cause nobody wants to start any, because the demand for the game is low. Imagine me starting the PTO, and I am the only one there, who is interested. Of course you need space, time, and money. All 3 of which I don't have.

There is a reason why MTG and Yugioh is played in more stores, and their events are held in more stores, because WOTC, and unsure about Konami, actively tries to spread the game, and make it easy for game stores to hold tournaments for MTG, and maybe Yugioh.

You put more effort in your product, you get a bigger return.
Click to expand...

Uh, it's dirt easy for somebody who owns a game store with even semi-reasonable amounts of playing area to run a tournament. Just because nobody there will get off their hands and try doesn't mean it's hard to do.

What are you proposing TPCI does? Send out flyers? Go knock on houses door to door? There's only so much they can do. If nobody in the area wants to bother running anything, nothing will ever get run. There was essentially nothing in the lower BC mainland until Steve decided to do something about it, and now they have the second largest playing numbers in the country. Nothing TPCI was doing in this regard changed in that time. Just because you and everybody else there can't be bothered to make stuff happen doesn't make it TPCI's fault.
 
Mystery Thing said:
Uh, it's dirt easy for somebody who owns a game store with even semi-reasonable amounts of playing area to run a tournament. Just because nobody there will get off their hands and try doesn't mean it's hard to do.

What are you proposing TPCI does? Send out flyers? Go knock on houses door to door? There's only so much they can do. If nobody in the area wants to bother running anything, nothing will ever get run. There was essentially nothing in the lower BC mainland until Steve decided to do something about it, and now they have the second largest playing numbers in the country. Nothing TPCI was doing in this regard changed in that time. Just because you and everybody else there can't be bothered to make stuff happen doesn't make it TPCI's fault.
Click to expand...

An actual store locator would be nice. As i said, I use WOTC's store locator for MTG to look for stores that sell Pokemon Cards. Most likely, these stores would put all their focus on MTG, but there could be some stores out there that focus more on Pokemon, and not sell any MTG. If there truly isn't a store in Manitoba or Saskatchewan that is all about Pokemon and less about MTG, then so be it. I can have just as much fun with the Elite Trainer boxes, but at least it would be better to know if such stores exist. Big box stores don't count.

Did I mention that I have no control what other store owners do, and that I don't own a store myself?
 
In my city of 400'000 inhabitants there was no pokemon league. I found a yugioh store, and we started a league there (the owner was happy a new market to explore). We were 3 players the first day, we are now almost 40 player (half are casual, but come to prereleases) in only 6 months.

Now I dunno how it is where you live, but if no body does nothing no wonder why there is nothing.
 
So... how many people here were around for what Wikipedia labels the "fifth generation" of home consoles? I know I was, which is why I know Sony won that round mostly because the two former champions dropped the ball, alienating consumers and developers left and right... including Sony. Sony won that generation not because "Sony was multi-media" but because Sony wasn't Nintendo or Sega. We saw similar motivation with recent sales and pre-sales trends: Microsoft chose to go in a direction that annoyed and angered a lot of gamers, even though the X-Box One wasn't even out, several decided to just go get a WiiU or reserve a PS4.

Sony actually has a terrible track record of focusing on gaming - it just happens they have good timing. The PSOne wanted to focus on 3D gaming only, something a fan of classic 2D gaming like myself remembers bitterly. The PS2... had a built in DVD player. No really - that was huge because of timing, right when the DVD market was maturing. Otherwise when Sony did make a console that was intended to be a "media hub" for the living room, it struggled. You know, the PS3? Horribly expensive and it took a while for good games to really start showing up? For a while it was more popular as a less expensive Blu Ray player than as a video game console... though I admit in the end the gamble paid off as Blu Ray has become the established format.

Pokémon is not identical to Magic: The Gathering, Yu-Gi-Oh, etc. Some TCGs are TCGs first and foremost: the product was developed as a TCG or at least the TCG is the most valuable part of the franchise. Pokémon began as a video game series, spread to animation and comics, spread to toys, spread other video games... and also spread to a TCG.

This does not mean a company should make a bad product, but it does mean that the return from the TCG for a game like Pokémon needs to exceed the return from just investing the same resources into another, already existing area of the franchise. While a diversified franchise is less risky than a focused one (if the TCG market were to crash and burn, Pokémon would survive while a game that was just a TCG would fail), that also means there isn't the desperation to keep the TCG part going no matter what.

tl;dr: No one likes it when their prize support it cut, but sometimes there are real reasons why... and unless prize support grows in perpetuity, it is going to see cuts sometime.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top